Winter Meetings Thread

[shoota]

I don't claim we are a small market team, but no team other than the Yankees, perhaps, can afford to be handing out several $10+ annual salaries and expect to have any flexibility were those players to suffer injury, or perform at an unexpectedly mediocre level. I have no problem signing *some* of our players to extended contracts that pay them what they are worth. But as KW has said, you have to consistently infuse your roster with young talent or else you end up with an aging team or roster inflexibility. The answer cannot simply be to sign everyone to extensions. And with the way our system looks now, we don't exactly have a whole lot of young players to infuse into our everyday lineup. We have to be careful with whom we decide to keep, and who we recognize we would be better off trading.

 

Under your theory, we'll demand an exorbitant price for any of our starters, and possibly come up empty. Then we'll walk into 07' with the same rotation, and where will Brandon pitch? Charlotte? That will make him miserable. Out of the pen? Even KW admitted that if you put him in the pen you are risking his ability to become an effective starter in this league. Simply because there are mediocre options out there signing for $10 million annually does not mean that teams are going to trade you their top 3 prospects for your above average starter. It means they are going to give a shot to someone in their system and bank on him producing 80% of the performance of one of those mediocre FA's for 5% of the cost.

 

Believe me, I'm all for taking advantage of our position in this marketplace. But if we don't, because we asked to much, then we have missed a major opportunity to take advantage of our surplus and restock our system. Because sooner or later, under KW's philosophy of player acquisition, we are going to run out of prospects to use in trades to get established veterans. At some point we need to restock the farm so we can continue to move prospects for established players.

 

I'm not arguing that we need to keep whatever prospects we get in return for dealing one of our starters. Just that it would be foolish to miss out on this opportunity to take advantage of this market. Because I don't want the draft picks when these guys walk. I want players that are close.

 

As 2007 World Series contenders, the Sox should use their surplus in pitching to improve the big-league club instead of stockpiling prospects that wouldn't help the 2007 team as much as proven MLB players. Improving a current weakness would improve the 2007 team's overall talent and give them better odds at winning the World Series.

 

You're valuing the unknown future over the much-easier-to-forecast present. I realize prospects are a very important part of an organization. My philosophy places more value on the present when the present contains a World Series contender. Much can happen in the time a prospect is acquired to the time he's projected to be ready. Over a short time, a prospect can get injured, regress in talent and fail to reach projections, rendering him nearly worthless to the parent club after it sacrificed talent in a Series year to acquire him. In that same short time, other once-overlooked talent may exceed expectations and become quality MLB players, the organization may have an excellent draft, make smart rule-5 acquisitions, and develop existing talent. So a once-shallow minor league system can add depth in a short time.

 

Since much can happen from one season to the next, a GM shouldn't subtract from his current WS-contending squad to add to his minor league stable.

Edited December 6, 2006 by shoota

[NCsoxfan]

What does everyone think of the Sox sending Vazquez or Garcia to Houston for Hirsch and Willy Tavares??

 

Is this fair for both sides? It seems reasonable to me...

 

Hirsh would give us a solid young pitcher, and Tavares speed and potential in CF and the top of the lineup...

[alk3kevin]

Hirsh would give us a solid young pitcher, and Tavares speed and potential in CF and the top of the lineup...

Taveras might look good in Birmingham or Winston Salem, but not in Chicago.

[Flash Tizzle]

Just heard on CBS that the Sox have been talking to the Yankees about sending them a starting pitcher and receiving bullpen help in return.

Such a scenario defies all baseball logic.

 

Trade starting pitching for perhaps the most unreliable position in major league baseball? Who exactly would New York be willing to trade from their current bullpen? If anything, we'd be aquiring several relief pitching prospects; which is ridiculous as a centerpiece.

 

These various scenarios which have been floating around involving Philadelphia or New York shouldn't be made unless we're obvious victors. Goal should be taking advantage of this market for a return package where by we give up the least amount of players and receive the most in return. Nowhere should "equal value" or "fair trade" be mentioned. Goal is to rape and pillage. For once, Williams shouldn't be looking to help out the other club in a trade.

Edited December 6, 2006 by Flash Tizzle

[103 mph screwball]

Just heard on CBS that the Sox have been talking to the Yankees about sending them a starting pitcher and receiving bullpen help in return.

 

That has to be a cover story to hide AROD negotiations. I can't see KW trading a starter for bullpen help. Maybe if there were some prospects involved or Melky? I think it's B.S.

[Chisoxfn]

That has to be a cover story to hide AROD negotiations. I can't see KW trading a starter for bullpen help. Maybe if there were some prospects involved or Melky? I think it's B.S.

Or you get Melky, one of the studs from the Tigers, and a power relief arm like Farnsworth. Not saying its a deal they make but its not the worse thing in the world.

 

I still think your more likely right and I think they are probably talking Arod but from there other talks may have occured but Kenny may have went with that and than said nah this doesn't make sense.

[DBAHO]

I figure now if the Yanks and Sox are discussing a deal, it's probably built around say Melky Cabrera and Humberto Sanchez for one of the Sox's SP's.

 

I think we can do better if we look elsewhere though.

 

Or you get Melky, one of the studs from the Tigers, and a power relief arm like Farnsworth. Not saying its a deal they make but its not the worse thing in the world.

 

I still think your more likely right and I think they are probably talking Arod but from there other talks may have occured but Kenny may have went with that and than said nah this doesn't make sense.

I forgot about Farmsworth, it was mentioned on Rotoworld a few days back, that the Yanks would be open to moving him.

 

One of our SP's for Melky, Sanchez and Farmsworth would be intriguing.

[Kalapse]

Well there's reports that the Yankees wouldn't even be willing to deal Sanchez straight up for Buehrle so those last 2 scenerios seem highly unlikley.

[103 mph screwball]

KW will do his homework before trading for Farnsworth. I do not know from first hand knowledge, but I'm pretty sure I've read things here at Soxtalk that would make me very concerned about bringing him back to Chicago. He allegedly used to party a bit too much.

 

I plead ignorance to Melky. Would he be a nice addition to the Sox?

[Milkman delivers]

KW will do his homework before trading for Farnsworth. I do not know from first hand knowledge, but I'm pretty sure I've read things here at Soxtalk that would make me very concerned about bringing him back to Chicago. He allegedly used to party a bit too much.

 

I plead ignorance to Melky. Would he be a nice addition to the Sox?

o

I don't know much about Cabrera. All I do know is that he's only about 22-years-old and that he put up pretty good numbers on a team that puts more pressure on a player than any other team in baseball. Not sure if he can play any position besides LF, but I don't think he's an overrated player like most players that come out of NY/Boston.

[EvilJester99]

Sox's talks center on Rays' Baldelli

Outfielder could fill leadoff role; Rowand may return

 

By Mark Gonzales

Tribune staff reporter

 

December 5, 2006, 11:35 PM CST

 

A frozen trade climate began to thaw Tuesday at the winter meetings.

 

"There were a few things that piqued our interest," White Sox general manager Ken Williams said. "I wouldn't classify anything as close, as imminent. But there are some things that make you take a step back and reassess your short-term and long-term goals."

 

Williams' comments came less than two hours after manager Ozzie Guillen declined to rule out the possibility of leadoff man Scott Podsednik hitting ninth if he doesn't improve his .330 on-base percentage.

 

"We were outstanding in the middle of the lineup but poor at first, eighth and ninth," Guillen said, pointing to the failures of Podsednik, shortstop Juan Uribe and center fielder Brian Anderson.

 

The White Sox expect inquiries about their starting pitchers from teams that lose out in the bidding for Barry Zito, Jason Schmidt and Ted Lilly. Meanwhile, center field has become an intriguing area.

 

"If you don't have an everyday center fielder, your team isn't going to be that good," Guillen said.

 

He ruled out using utility player Rob Mackowiak in center next season.

 

"If you're switching center fielders one day after another, you're not strong enough to win," he said.

 

The Sox acknowledged their interest in reacquiring Aaron Rowand from the Phillies, who are seeking a starting pitcher.

 

A Sox source said the team also had some interest in the Devil Rays' Rocco Baldelli, who could solve problems in center and at the leadoff spot.

 

Baldelli, 25, batted .302 with 16 home runs and 57 RBIs in 92 games last season, but his career has been slowed by injuries. Major knee and elbow ailments sidelined him for all of 2005.

 

Baldelli hit .339 in the leadoff spot last season with a .368 on-base percentage. He stole 27 bases in 2004. He is under contract through the 2008 season, with the Devil Rays holding options on him in 2009 and 2010.

 

"The one area where we're covered is in the outfield," Devil Rays manager Joe Maddon said, indicating he'd like a veteran starting pitcher to take some pressure off a young staff led by All-Star left-hander Scott Kazmir. "If something like [a trade] were to happen, we feel that's the one spot we can handle internally."

 

The Devil Rays are considering moving prized prospect B.J. Upton from shortstop to the outfield.

 

Guillen conceded he doesn't have an alternative to Podsednik on the current roster. He believes Podsednik would be better served concentrating more on his on-base percentage than stealing bases.

 

"This kid puts a lot of pressure on himself," Guillen said. "But there's no doubt he'll have a better year than he did last year."

 

While Williams listens to trade proposals, the Astros have expressed interest in Sox starting pitchers Javier Vazquez and Freddy Garcia, who began his career in the Astros' system. Houston might need to replace Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte, and Garcia is one of four active pitchers with at least 10 wins, 30 starts and 200 innings in six consecutive seasons.

 

As expected, Williams shot down reports of the Sox's interest in the Yankees' Alex Rodriguez.

 

"Brian Cashman is a buddy of mine, and we spend a lot of time with each other," Williams said. "As a matter of fact, we were with each other till 2 a.m. [Tuesday] and we couldn't come up with anything then, and I don't think there will be anything that comes up with the Yankees. There's just not a fit for us.

 

"I have no interest in getting them better, and he's got no interest in getting us better."

 

The Sox fortified their bench by re-signing utility player Pablo Ozuna to a one-year, $800,000 contract. Ozuna, 32, was batting .428 before injuring his left hamstring on June 25. He finished with a .328 mark.

 

"He's still a little uncomfortable in the outfield, but hopefully that gets a little better," Williams said. "He can spell out there to a more effective level. He can play the infield and he creates a lot of excitement. It was an easy decision for us to bring him back."

 

Ozuna's signing leaves the Sox with three arbitration-eligible players: third baseman Joe Crede, infielder Alex Cintron and reliever Mike MacDougal.

 

The Sox merely have to tender a contract to those players by Tuesday to retain their rights.

 

mgonzales@tribune.com

Edited December 6, 2006 by EvilJester99

[tpezz27]

Id much rather get Baldelli to play center then Rowand.....its not even close!

[iamshack]

Well that's some interesting news, finally. Kenny's comments about some things that would make him step back and reaccess both short and long term goals seems to indicate he has had discussions about some impact players. Me likey.

 

Joe Maddon's comments also seem to indicate that one of Baldelli or Crawford is available, albeit for the right price. Would much rather see Crawford in black pinstripes than Rocco, although, I suppose I could learn to live with Mr. Baldelli.

 

Additionally, it seems that KW and Cashman did indeed discuss ARod, as his comments about his hesitancy to make the Yankees better, and Cashman's hesitancy to effectuate the same in our case, seems to indicate that major pieces were discussed. That can only lead to one conclusion in my mind: that a deal involving ARod for Crede and one of our staters was indeed on the table.

 

Some good stuff here. Let's hope KW can pull off something typical of his usual genius in the next 42 hours or so.

[Flash Tizzle]

Wait, Guillen concerning himself with OBP AND recognizing the failures of Scott Podsednik in such a capacity? It's really amazing to read such quotes. Especially in the wake of addressing Mackowiak's time in CF.

 

Atleast now I'm somewhat convinced he's capable of evaluating players beyond intagibles such as speed, clubhouse demeanor, or which hand a player bats with. Still have to work with him and McCarthy, though.

[Rowand44]

I'm hoping Houston enters this whole mix as they have a lot of talent that I like. Jason Hirsh

[Kalapse]

Wait, Guillen concerning himself with OBP AND recognizing the failures of Scott Podsednik in such a capacity? It's really amazing to read such quotes. Especially in the wake of addressing Mackowiak's time in CF.

 

Atleast now I'm somewhat convinced he's capable of evaluating players beyond intagibles such as speed, clubhouse demeanor, or which hand a player bats with. Still have to work with him and McCarthy, though.

Ozzie actually sounds like a semi-passable manager this offseason (McCarthy aside), it's beginning to frighten me.

[whitesoxfan101]

Ozzie actually sounds like a semi-passable manager this offseason (McCarthy aside), it's beginning to frighten me.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

I'm concerned about the long term status of earth, is the end near??

[SnB]

don't get your hopes up, you know he's going to say something incredibly stupid soon that will get him in the national media.

 

What social group does he go after next?

 

I say pet owners.

[Rowand44]

don't get your hopes up, you know he's going to say something incredibly stupid soon that will get him in the national media.

 

What social group does he go after next?

 

I say pet owners.

People who dance to hippopotamus songs.

[whitesoxfan101]

don't get your hopes up, you know he's going to say something incredibly stupid soon that will get him in the national media.

 

What social group does he go after next?

 

I say pet owners.

 

Well of course that's true, just the brief glimmer of hope is nice though. I know by May, we'll be back to appendage-ball, Podsednik being hit leadoff everyday against lefties, and people here defending Ozzie as the greatest since he rode the back of one of the best pitching staffs ever (in terms of how they pitched that year) to a title in 2005.

 

I can't wait......

[YASNY]

Well of course that's true, just the brief glimmer of hope is nice though. I know by May, we'll be back to appendage-ball, Podsednik being hit leadoff everyday against lefties, and people here defending Ozzie as the greatest since he rode the back of one of the best pitching staffs ever (in terms of how they pitched that year) to a title in 2005.

 

I can't wait......

 

That's ironic. Those of us that do like Ozzie don't have to wait till May to hear all the anti-Ozzie Bulls***. It never ends.

[whitesoxfan101]

That's ironic. Those of us that do like Ozzie don't have to wait till May to hear all the anti-Ozzie Bulls***. It never ends.

 

I've concluded that people who still like him just don't watch the games, it's the most logical thing I can come up with.

 

But now i'm getting off topic, so yeah, TRADE FOR ROCCO!!!

[CWSGuy406]

I'm hoping Houston enters this whole mix as they have a lot of talent that I like. Jason Hirsh

 

Hirsh and Burke for Freddy G + $$$ and/or a prospect or two (Phillips, Tracey). That'd work for me. Burke could play mainly LF in 2006 2007, and switch to 2B in 2007 2008. Hirsh, despite very mediocre peripherals, had one heckuva year in the PCL last year. 2.10 ERA, under seven hits per nine. Anyone have a scouting report? He doesn't look to be at the level of a Pelfrey, but I'd say he's probably a step above Broadway.

 

I know this looks fairly lopsided in our favor, getting six years of Hirsh and another three-four years of Burke, but as Flash said, I'm not looking for straight up equal value -- I want to make a killing!

Edited December 6, 2006 by CWSGuy406

[YASNY]

I've concluded that people who still like him just don't watch the games, it's the most logical thing I can come up with.

 

But now i'm getting off topic, so yeah, TRADE FOR ROCCO!!!

 

I'll tell you what. I'm just going to walk away from this. It's not worth it.

[Leonard Zelig]

So, you guys think anything will happen tonight, or can I go to bed now?