Buehrle Fest

[iamshack]

I just don't buy this. Assuming we don't give him the NTC, he would still receive a NTC in the third and fourth years of his deal because he'll have 10 years of major league service time and 5 years with the same team. The years you'd think the organization would be worried about would be the final years of the deal, if anything, IMO. Also keep in mind that the organization has established a precedent of being willing to offer 1 year of NT protection, as it did with Jon/Jose. So assuming they would be willing to give him 1 year of NT protection, you're telling me this entire argument is about that second year of the contract? Because that's what it boils down to: 2008- NTC (as they gave Jon/Jose), 2009- no protection, 2010- NTC (per his 10/5 rights), 2011- NTC (per his 10/5) rights.

 

It just doesn't make sense. I have to believe the organization wouldn't hold this up over one year of no trade protection in 2009, in which the the odds of Mark being a successful pitcher are still fairly good, in his 30 age year.

Edited July 1, 2007 by iamshack

[hitlesswonder]

We really are going to send out everyone but Danks and Fields and start all over.

That's the one of the better case scenarios. It would be worse if KW keeps Vazquez and Garland and Jenks and Konerko and lets their value erode rather than dealing them now (Konerko's 5 and 10 rights kick in next season, so the Sox need to deal him if they are consistent in philosophy). And the situation will be worse still if the Sox go out and grab second-tier free agents like Rowand and Eckstein.

 

I'm sure no on cares a whit but I think I was definitely wrong to suggest KW be fired for the Buehrle fiasco. Not signing him for more than the team is willing to risk may be justifiable. But if KW doesn't clean house, if he fails to sell high on Garland and Jenks, and especially if he brings in veterans to make some half-assed claim to competing in 2008 then I think calling for a change is justified. Because there is no middle road to take and compete while rebuilding when the Sox farm system has nothing to offer.

[iamshack]

That's the one of the better case scenarios. It would be worse if KW keeps Vazquez and Garland and Jenks and Konerko and lets their value erode rather than dealing them now (Konerko's 5 and 10 rights kick in next season, so the Sox need to deal him if they are consistent in philosophy). And the situation will be worse still if the Sox go out and grab second-tier free agents like Rowand and Eckstein.

 

I'm sure no on cares a whit but I think I was definitely wrong to suggest KW be fired for the Buehrle fiasco. Not signing him for more than the team is willing to risk may be justifiable. But if KW doesn't clean house, if he fails to sell high on Garland and Jenks, and especially if he brings in veterans to make some half-assed claim to competing in 2008 then I think calling for a change is justified. Because there is no middle road to take and compete while rebuilding when the Sox farm system has nothing to offer.

 

That may be a smart way to approach it, but it won't happen. The fanbase would probably riot, especially considering how close we are to the 05' World Series title, and I just don't think the organization has the sack to do it.

Edited July 1, 2007 by iamshack

[greg775]

The fanbase should riot if Mark is traded soon.

Think about our staff minus Mark.

Not nearly as good.

[Dick Allen]

I just don't know why anyone would want KW just to take the draft picks for Dye or Buerhle. Their bonuses would have an effect on the White Sox payroll, and with the way the Sox have drafted, chances are they won't be very good players. Pick up guys who have had bonuses already paid and have had at least a little success in professional baseball.

 

BTW, anyone else sick of seeing Josh Fields strikeout?

[Gene Honda Civic]

BTW, anyone else sick of seeing Josh Fields strikeout?

Not at all. The alternative is Alex Cintron needing to go around the horn to get the ball to first base, and still hitting worse than Fields.

 

Fields has shown some degree of improvement (specifically in his control of the strike zone) at every level in the minor leagues. I've always questioned his ability to hit major league pitching, but there's no way he's going to hit if you give up on him now. Let him make the adjustment.

 

It's not like the Sox are playing for anything this year. The alternatives aren't any better.

Edited July 1, 2007 by Gene Honda Civic

[BearSox]

Dye, you suck. Maybe stop sucking and then maybe you can talk. But until then, STFU.

[Shamrock4Life]

i maybe starting to buy the buerhle playing us all as fools arguement. maybe its just because i don't want to give up hope on the sox and would rather give up hope on a player that won't be with the sox in about 74 hrs.

[Kalapse]

A 33 year old consistently injured outfielder who should probably be on the DL right now and is putting up a line of .230/.286/.422/.704 for the season and he's making snide remarks toward the organization for not negotiating a long term contract with him? Wow.

[SoxAce]

A 33 year old consistently injured outfielder who should probably be on the DL right now and is putting up a line of .230/.286/.422/.704 for the season and he's making snide remarks toward the organization for not negotiating a long term contract with him? Wow.

 

And this is comming from one of the biggest Dye fans on this site.

[Steff]

Yes, but there's heavy rumors that many of the "sources" during the last week were members of Buehrle's family.

 

 

 

Definitely not directly, but definitely people they told things to assure it would get to the media. Very smart and it makes the Sox look like what many of the fans think they are anyway. Greedy selfish bastards. Point for Mark's camp.

[RME JICO]

I thought this was odd coming out of Tampa Sunday morning:

CHANGING THE MARKET: The story changes by the day, but it appears the White Sox are going to sign LHP Mark Buehrle to a four-year, $56-million deal that will take the prospective free agent off the market.

 

Buehrle could have waited and had his payday. It appears he is so motivated to stay with the organization - in part because his wife, who is eight months pregnant, wants security over the uncertainty of the extended process - that he initiated these proceedings to get a quick deal and make the whole thing go away. So he settled for $14-million a year. Not bad.

It seems like they are not completely updated on the whole situation, but I must have missed the points that his wife is 8 months pregnant and that he initiated the deal.

 

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/07/01/Rays/Fan...lkout_on_.shtml

[GreenSox]

That's the one of the better case scenarios. It would be worse if KW keeps Vazquez and Garland and Jenks and Konerko and lets their value erode rather than dealing them now (Konerko's 5 and 10 rights kick in next season, so the Sox need to deal him if they are consistent in philosophy). And the situation will be worse still if the Sox go out and grab second-tier free agents like Rowand and Eckstein.

Getting rid of all of the good players is ridiculous.

The Sox have what most teams can't get - quality starting pitching. That enables retooling, instead of reloading.

I have more faith in Gavin Floyd being a major league pitcher than one of those (counterfeit) Mets prospects people can't stop raving about. Gil Meche? Why not Jason Marquis. That's not taking a chance - that's paying high for mediocre veterans (and Meche is having a good year, I know).

 

What we need is some talented youth in the outfield (or infield) to join our pitching. Add a stud free agent and a couple of good players for Mark, Contreras and Dye and we'll be a lot better.

And not signing MB, and trading Conteras frees up a lot of cash.

 

This isn't some huge rebuilding project....UNLESS JR is intentionally backtracking and doing a latent Toronto/Fla/Pitt style sell-off.

[fathom]

Shut your mouth Dye. You been fantastic in a White Sox uniform, don't spoil your image with snide remarks.

 

He was swinging out of his ass all year in order to get his numbers up for the bigger payday. There's been a lot of crap behind the scenes with him since last offseason, and we should have moved him a month ago. KW was such a freaking idiot when he had that pathetic speech about how he's going to let all of his free agents from now on test the market.

[The Beast]

Shut your mouth Dye. You been fantastic in a White Sox uniform, don't spoil your image with snide remarks.

Dye is a piece of s*** in right field. He's slow to making plays, but maybe that's just me thinking that. (Yes, he can make diving catches; so can Pods.)

[MurcieOne]

I understand that Dye isn't playing well right now.... but you have to see where Dye is coming from on this right?

 

WS MVP

2-3 in MVP Balloting last year

 

signed a pretty s***ty deal 3 years ago, played hard.... GM says no negotiations during the season.... breaks that rule for someone else.

 

You have a family, don't want to move them etc....

 

Jermaine is just frustrated, because whatever bargaining power he accumulated last season with his great season is gone because of injuries and his poor play.

[fathom]

Quick thought: it would be ironic if Buehrle gets traded tomorrow, as it would be the one year anniversary of his start against the Cubs which was the beginning of the end of his season.

[Steff]

I understand that Dye isn't playing well right now.... but you have to see where Dye is coming from on this right?

 

WS MVP

2-3 in MVP Balloting last year

 

signed a pretty s***ty deal 3 years ago, played hard.... GM says no negotiations during the season.... breaks that rule for someone else.

 

You have a family, don't want to move them etc....

 

Jermaine is just frustrated, because whatever bargaining power he accumulated last season with his great season is gone because of injuries and his poor play.

 

No one cares about the facts. If Mark was pitching s***ty right now the majority would be screaming about what a s***ty player he is and to trade him. JD couldn't get a bad word said about him for the past 2 years - same as Kenny.

[fathom]

No one cares about the facts. If Mark was pitching s***ty right now the majority would be screaming about what a s***ty player he is and to trade him. JD couldn't get a bad word said about him for the past 2 years - same as Kenny.

 

The organization was peeved at Dye when he made mention of the fact that he'd like to play for Ron Washington. Then, they got really upset again when they felt he wasn't making it seem like he'd be upset if he was traded. They're trying their best to trade him right now, I can guarantee you that. I'm just grateful that we didn't extend his deal. Jermaine Dye had two of the most memorable seasons in Sox history his first two years here, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and just forget about this year once he's traded.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I'm just grateful that we didn't extend his deal. Jermaine Dye had two of the most memorable seasons in Sox history his first two years here, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and just forget about this year once he's traded.

KW certainly deserves credit for not signing Dye, Iguchi and Crede to big contract extensions before this season as many would have liked. Smart moves by Kenny. He knows what he's doing.

[Steff]

The organization was peeved at Dye when he made mention of the fact that he'd like to play for Ron Washington. Then, they got really upset again when they felt he wasn't making it seem like he'd be upset if he was traded. They're trying their best to trade him right now, I can guarantee you that. I'm just grateful that we didn't extend his deal. Jermaine Dye had two of the most memorable seasons in Sox history his first two years here, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and just forget about this year once he's traded.

 

 

I do not think you are correct on that. Not at all. Not even a little bit.

 

Time will tell.

 

Though that wasn't even the point of my post. Sox fans are a "what have you done for me lately" crowd. If Mark was pitching like he did the 2nd half last year everyone would be screaming not to give him any more money.

[fathom]

I do not think you are correct on that. Not at all. Not even a little bit.

 

Time will tell.

 

Though that wasn't even the point of my post. Sox fans are a "what have you done for me lately" crowd. If Mark was pitching like he did the 2nd half last year everyone would be screaming not to give him any more money.

 

If they weren't looking to trade him, they would have put him on the DL a week ago. And wouldn't that make sense for fans to react that way to Buehrle? He had the roughest stretch of his career during the 2nd half last year, so we wanted him to prove it was a fluke and that he could regain his velocity and ability to get hitters out. He's done that this year, but if he sucked so far this year, fans would have every right to say he shouldn't be re-signed for the money he wants.

[santo=dorf]

What's the difference in Jermaine's trade value if he's on the DL or if he's being held out of the lineup because he's hurting?

[Steff]

What's the difference in Jermaine's trade value if he's on the DL or if he's being held out of the lineup because he's hurting?

 

 

Zero.

[Buehrle>Wood]

What's the difference in Jermaine's trade value if he's on the DL or if he's being held out of the lineup because he's hurting?

Can't trade someone on the DL.