R.J. Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I'd take a shot at Cabrera if he comes at a reasonable price, but he's not the type of guy you want to throw a valuable prospect away on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 09:36 PM) I haven't seen major progress yet. His ERA has improved by over a point thus far, but there hasn't been anything drastic that has changed amongst any of his peripherals. He could end the year with an ERA below 5, but I would bet a good amount of money that it's closer to 5 than it is to 4. Mediocre K/9, BB/9, H/9, his GO/AO isn't anything special at 1.65 (opposed to 1.56 last season), HR/9 has stayed about the same...I'd suggest he's been lucky to have his ERA where it is rather than a pitcher progressing. Splitting hairs aside, I agree with you - the Orioles have no reason to give him up whatsoever. If they were flat out sick of him, I could understand it, but he has put up a good ERA this year (whether it sticks remains to be seen). The Sox really shouldn't have much interest in him outside of the phone call in to see what they're looking for. Depends on the Orioles timeline. I'd say the smartest thing the O's could do is put together enough guys that will be able to develop and grow with the franchise when the Wieters and company are ready for the show. Cabrera will be a free agent and walking prior to the O's truly being ready to take the next step (just my 2 cents and based on his production I highly doubt he's the type of guy the O's would want to invest in). I think a change of scenery would be well suited, assuming the O's could get what they'd consider a couple valuable pieces. Again, they have no reason to be forced into any deal so they would have to get guys that they liked and would believe would turn into starters on there squad for the next 4-6 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 15, 2008 Author Share Posted July 15, 2008 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 09:48 PM) I was kind of going from memory on that one (it wasn't really a main point to my argument), I remember reading an article some time in early June on how much improved Daniel Cabrera's control had been this season. And looking at his gamelogs right now it appears during the first 2 months of the season he was keeping his walks to a minimum (for him at least); sporting a 3.35 BB/9 over his first 13 starts. That wildness is definitely back though since then he's walked 25 batters over 43 IP which is a BB/9 of 5.25. Yep, he's been on the decline and I thought I had read somewhere a while back that the O's had become frustrated with him and were getting to the point that they would start to consider dealing him. Bottom line you can only sell your fans on hype/potential for so long. A change of scenery could be exactly what the doctor ordered as its one of those things that gives Cabrera a fresh mindset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 plus it's the Orioles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 14, 2008 -> 10:43 PM) Two years older than Floyd, whats your point? It's incredibly naive to think a guy like Cabrera, a guy with world class stuff, couldn't succeed in a different environment, especially when Cooper has had insane success with pitchers with poor control but plus stuff. Agreed. How old was Jose Contreras when he came to the Sox? Or for that matter Esteban Loiaza1.0 Edited July 15, 2008 by southsider2k5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.J. Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I really think Cabrera might blossom if given a season to work with Cooper. I just don't want to give up a good prospect to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 "contending team"??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 They sort of are contending, Jackie. They are only 8 out in the loss column. Not exactly contending, but if they got red hot, they certainly aren't out of it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 15, 2008 -> 09:18 PM) They sort of are contending, Jackie. They are only 8 out in the loss column. Not exactly contending, but if they got red hot, they certainly aren't out of it yet. They're also in last place and have to leapfrog 4 teams. They're dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OilCan Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 QUOTE (R.J. @ Jul 15, 2008 -> 02:30 PM) I really think Cabrera might blossom if given a season to work with Cooper. I just don't want to give up a good prospect to find out. +1. At first when I read this, I said, NO. But if he gets to work with MOSES....hmmmmmmm......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 They're also in last place and have to leapfrog 4 teams. They're dead. I don't think they have the team to do much of anything, but statistically speaking they are far from dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 15, 2008 -> 10:57 AM) plus it's the Orioles. I feel like fleecing the Orioles is so easily done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 17, 2008 -> 12:46 AM) I don't think they have the team to do much of anything, but statistically speaking they are far from dead. well yeah, but statistically speaking, I have a shot at going out with Erin Andrews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 17, 2008 -> 02:02 AM) well yeah, but statistically speaking, I have a shot at going out with Erin Andrews. statistically speaking I think you have a better shot of going out with Erin Andrews than the Orioles do at leapfrogging the Rays, Yankees and BoSox. statistically speaking, of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I would have agreed with going after Cabrera a season or 2 ago. He's just been so incosistent, it just makes you think it doesn't matter where he is, he's never going to become that dominant starter that he should be with that stuff of his. Still Cooper has turned around many pitchers before, and ones who have good velocity but control issues e.g Matt Thornton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jul 17, 2008 -> 07:54 AM) I would have agreed with going after Cabrera a season or 2 ago. He's just been so incosistent, it just makes you think it doesn't matter where he is, he's never going to become that dominant starter that he should be with that stuff of his. Still Cooper has turned around many pitchers before, and ones who have good velocity but control issues e.g Matt Thornton. Here's my biggest problem with the "Maybe Coop will help him" line of thinking. Chicago 54 40 .574 - Minnesota 53 42 .558 1.5 Last year, we were a disgrace and we were out of it early. It didn't hurt us to give starts to guys like Danks and Floyd who were going to struggle for a while before hopefully figuring things out. Ditto even guys like Broadway. Or, if you go back to when we got Jose, we were out of it pretty quick in the 2nd half of 04 after Frank and Ordonez went down, so there was an opportunity there as well to give starts to Jose without costing us a season. Are we willing to finish behind the Twins this year so that we might be able to develop someone like Cabrera for next year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 17, 2008 -> 12:11 PM) Are we willing to finish behind the Twins this year so that we might be able to develop someone like Cabrera for next year? That's why I'd rather a stopgap e.g Garcia if he's healthy, or a Broadway given a chance first. If you were going to target DC, do it in the off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jul 17, 2008 -> 10:13 AM) That's why I'd rather a stopgap e.g Garcia if he's healthy, or a Broadway given a chance first. If you were going to target DC, do it in the off-season. Since April, Broadway has been horrible. If he's an option, the White Sox will be in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 17, 2008 -> 12:22 PM) Since April, Broadway has been horrible. If he's an option, the White Sox will be in trouble. Well go for Egbert then. Broadway's a guy who's a bit hit and miss though (who honestly expected him to dominate in his 1 start up last season, even though it was only 1 start). Still if JC turns it around, this discussion will all be moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Jul 17, 2008 -> 10:13 AM) That's why I'd rather a stopgap e.g Garcia if he's healthy, or a Broadway given a chance first. If you were going to target DC, do it in the off-season. It's not like Cabrera has been bad this year. He'd be better than Freddy or Lance and would certainly be better than JC imo as well. Yes, he's a bit of a project to get him to reach his potential but he still should be able to be a decent mid - bottom of the rotation starter for us right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 But can you group Cabrera in with Floyd and Danks as a pitcher feeling his way through the league on his first shot? Cabrera has been around a few years now, this isnt his rookie year. he has experienced some success, and some failure. Floyd and Danks were both pretty new to the ML experience and have had some setbacks in their time in the major league club as well. Would you rather trust a pitcher who has amazing stuff but is having problems with consistency, or would you rather trust a pitcher who is coming off of a pretty major shoulder operation who may or may not return to what he once was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 17, 2008 -> 12:28 PM) It's not like Cabrera has been bad this year. He'd be better than Freddy or Lance and would certainly be better than JC imo as well. Yes, he's a bit of a project to get him to reach his potential but he still should be able to be a decent mid - bottom of the rotation starter for us right away. All depends on the cost though. My guess is it would be fairly steep. MacPhail got a good package for Bedard, and obviously it won't be on that level, but it'll still be a decent one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Jul 17, 2008 -> 10:29 AM) But can you group Cabrera in with Floyd and Danks as a pitcher feeling his way through the league on his first shot? Cabrera has been around a few years now, this isnt his rookie year. he has experienced some success, and some failure. Floyd and Danks were both pretty new to the ML experience and have had some setbacks in their time in the major league club as well. Would you rather trust a pitcher who has amazing stuff but is having problems with consistency, or would you rather trust a pitcher who is coming off of a pretty major shoulder operation who may or may not return to what he once was? Loiaza, Thornton, and Contreras all were not in the first experiences in the majors. They have all experienced successes here to some extent or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Jul 17, 2008 -> 09:33 AM) statistically speaking I think you have a better shot of going out with Erin Andrews than the Orioles do at leapfrogging the Rays, Yankees and BoSox. statistically speaking, of course I don't know about that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 17, 2008 -> 12:04 PM) I don't know about that... Hey, we are talking about the funniest man on Soxtalk here. Dont doubt it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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