Why Kotsay shouldn't Bat 5th

[Rowand44]

If we play like we did yesterday every day, I wouldn't get too worked up about this.

This could be a huge difference maker in our season. We're not going to blow every team out and our 5 hitter is going to have a lot of opportunities to drive in runs, and Mark Kotsay just isn't a run producer, or an even decent hitter at this point.

[SoxAce]

I've been saying Rios should be 5th for months now. Nothings changed in that end. I still do prefer Kotsay to A.J. higher up though. A.J. ideally would be a 7-9 hitter.

[fathom]

And there's going to be right handed pitchers that bother Kotsay as well, so that point is kind of moot. He needs to be batting lower in the order and there's just no doubt about it. Having him hit behind your 3 best hitters especially when 2 of them are going to get on base a ton is just one hell of a terrible idea. Just imagine being down a few runs in the 6th or 7th inning, 2 on and 2 out, the opposing team brings in a tough lefty and Ozzie has to decide on keeping Mr. .500 ops vs. left handers in or losing the dh. Two pretty terrible options and something tells me that's going to happen a decent amount this season.

 

I love this post

[beck72]

What does that even mean? Kotsay is pressure proof and Teahan needs to be handled with gloves?

It means that Kotsay is a vet that can be moved around, and the Sox probably want Teahen to have some success before they put him in an RBI spot like #5.

[witesoxfan]

And there's going to be right handed pitchers that bother Kotsay as well, so that point is kind of moot. He needs to be batting lower in the order and there's just no doubt about it. Having him hit behind your 3 best hitters especially when 2 of them are going to get on base a ton is just one hell of a terrible idea. Just imagine being down a few runs in the 6th or 7th inning, 2 on and 2 out, the opposing team brings in a tough lefty and Ozzie has to decide on keeping Mr. .500 ops vs. left handers in or losing the dh. Two pretty terrible options and something tells me that's going to happen a decent amount this season.

 

You can pinch hit for the DH though.

[chw42]

Reasonable.

 

 

 

Your mistake is in assuming that people that can make a case for having him hit 5th is the same as them having some sort of "Kotsay-mania". The argument above is a valid one. You can pretty much guarantee that just about every game, the LRLR matchup is going to matter late in the game unless it's a blowout or some pitcher is throwing a complete game, which doesn't happen much anymore.

 

The real issue is that none of the left-handed hitters on the roster are all that fearsome (although Teahen has the best potential to improve and be that), so it's a pretty good idea to separate them as best as can be done.

 

 

 

He really doesn't. They are very, very similar hitters in terms of production.

 

They are similar, but A.J. is slightly better.

 

A.J.'s career ISO: .142

Kotsay's: .132

 

Plus, you have to take into account that A.J. can actually post a .142, while Kotsay is hovering around .110.

 

And you cannot tell me that there is not a Kotsay mania going on when Hawk talks about him like he's the most perfect player ever and that he can do no wrong.

 

He's the new Darin Erstad.

 

[Rowand44]

You can pinch hit for the DH though.

Indeed. Had a brain fart on the rule for some reason.

[Jerksticks]

All the points in here are great.

 

What else is great is that this thread never even gets started if he goes 2-3 with a BB yesterday. Not even really defending the guy, just sayin let's give it some time; we are the class of this division and it ain't even close.

[SoxAce]

All the points in here are great.

 

What else is great is that this thread never even gets started if he goes 2-3 with a BB yesterday. Not even really defending the guy, just sayin let's give it some time; we are the class of this division and it ain't even close.

 

Ya.. I would give that some time too.

[knightni]

The problem is that Konerko might be top 10 in walks this year if Kotsay bats behind him. While walks aren't bad, they aren't singles and RBI opportunities.

 

If a better power threat bats 5th, Konerko has a better chance of actually seeing strikes and driving runs in.

[Leonard Zelig]

They are similar, but A.J. is slightly better.

 

A.J.'s career ISO: .142

Kotsay's: .132

 

Plus, you have to take into account that A.J. can actually post a .142, while Kotsay is hovering around .110.

 

And you cannot tell me that there is not a Kotsay mania going on when Hawk talks about him like he's the most perfect player ever and that he can do no wrong.

 

He's the new Darin Erstad.

 

Who is defending Kotsay around here? Who ever defended Erstad?

[fathom]

What else is great is that this thread never even gets started if he goes 2-3 with a BB yesterday. Not even really defending the guy, just sayin let's give it some time; we are the class of this division and it ain't even close.

 

The exact same arguments were made last year after Wise went 0 for in the first game.

[chw42]

Who is defending Kotsay around here? Who ever defended Erstad?

 

I wouldn't say the Ranger was defending him, but that was in response to his post.

[ThunderBolt]

If we play like we did yesterday every day, I wouldn't get too worked up about this.

We shouldn't accept a poor DH, just because the rest of the roster is hitting well around him. We shouldn't have to win in spite of the Designated Hitter.

[bmags]

The exact same arguments were made last year after Wise went 0 for in the first game.

 

and they were WRONGGGGGG

 

I don't see anyone stringing up teahan right now.

[dyuen]

They are similar, but A.J. is slightly better.

 

A.J.'s career ISO: .142

Kotsay's: .132

 

Plus, you have to take into account that A.J. can actually post a .142, while Kotsay is hovering around .110.

 

And you cannot tell me that there is not a Kotsay mania going on when Hawk talks about him like he's the most perfect player ever and that he can do no wrong.

 

He's the new Darin Erstad.

 

The difference of course is that AJ is the C and Kotsay is the DH. I expect far greater production out of the DH. He was a vaulable player when he could play above average CF. He can't do that anymore and he should be a role player. He has no business being a DH. He has no business being a starting player and he has no business batting 5th.

[Jerksticks]

The exact same arguments were made last year after Wise went 0 for in the first game.

 

 

Yea but Wise was a 31 year old with no tools, and Kotsay is a...oh wait. Well, like someone else said, his beard is worth a month or so of platoon until Jones takes the position full time.

 

Teahen's defense and Garcia are way bigger concerns for me.

[chw42]

The difference of course is that AJ is the C and Kotsay is the DH. I expect far greater production out of the DH. He was a vaulable player when he could play above average CF. He can't do that anymore and he should be a role player. He has no business being a DH. He has no business being a starting player and he has no business batting 5th.

 

That too. If A.J. played anywhere else (LF, 1B, anything that doesn't require speed), he'd be a far below average offensive player.

[Balta1701]

FWIW, the average OPS of the Catcher's spot last year in MLB was .721. The Average OPS of the DH was .779.

[ThunderBolt]

FWIW, the average OPS of the Catcher's spot last year in MLB was .721. The Average OPS of the DH was .779.

Mark Kotsay's career OPS? .750.

[Ranger]

The difference of course is that AJ is the C and Kotsay is the DH. I expect far greater production out of the DH. He was a vaulable player when he could play above average CF. He can't do that anymore and he should be a role player. He has no business being a DH. He has no business being a starting player and he has no business batting 5th.

 

That is a completely different argument. Positions on the field are irrelevant in determining positions in the lineup.

 

I seriously think we need to stop overvaluing this DH thing, I do not believe it will make or break them.

[fathom]

I seriously think we need to stop overvaluing this DH thing, I do not believe it will make or break them.

 

Who cares what position it is, if you keep playing individuals who are well below average at that "position", it's going to have a negative impact on the lineup. This is like when people used to say who cares about the 5th spot in the rotation, as long as the other spots are fine. We all know how that worked out.

[Leonard Zelig]

We shouldn't accept a poor DH, just because the rest of the roster is hitting well around him. We shouldn't have to win in spite of the Designated Hitter.

 

Well, it's who we have on our team. You can b**** about it for the next six months. The past three months of b****ing about it really has accomplished a lot.

[ThunderBolt]

Well, it's who we have on our team. You can b**** about it for the next six months. The past three months of b****ing about it really has accomplished a lot.

This is a really productive post in a thread dedicated to "b****ing" about what my post is about. You're right we should accept glaring faults when they're masked by other things of quality. We should accept below-average performance, becasue we're all "talked out" on the subject. That's an effective approach and doesn't at all distract from the subject at hand.

[gatnom]

That is a completely different argument. Positions on the field are irrelevant in determining positions in the lineup.

 

I seriously think we need to stop overvaluing this DH thing, I do not believe it will make or break them.

 

You're going to drive me nuts with this line Ranger.

 

Well, it's who we have on our team. You can b**** about it for the next six months. The past three months of b****ing about it really has accomplished a lot.

 

Let's just not argue anything, and we can shut down Soxtalk for the winter.

 

I think that people defending Kotsay in the 5th spot are putting too much weight on alternating L/R in the line up. You should have your better hitter higher in the order regardless of the way he bats. To me, it's kind of like trying to make an argument that you should pinch hit for Beckham in a situation where you need runs because the other team brings in a tough right-handed reliever. I'd rather have Beckham batting rather than some left-handed bench player. Ideally, you can split up your order like Ozzie likes to, but you shouldn't sacrifice the quality of your line up just to do so.