knightni Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 12:48 PM) Johnny has a weak arm, he's not going to be able to make some NFL throws unless he has Drew Brees like accuracy, which he doesn't have. And Russell Wilson is not only more accurate of a thrower but also has about three times the arm strength that Manziel has. Obviously we'll see but I just don't think the physical tools are there for Johnny to be a successful starter in the NFL. Grossman has great arm strength and a history of collegiate success. I think sometimes, it's intangibles as much as athleticism that allows you to succeed in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 09:58 AM) Grossman has great arm strength and a history of collegiate success. I think sometimes, it's intangibles as much as athleticism that allows you to succeed in the NFL. The two most important things are accuracy and understanding how to read defenses. If you can do those things, you don't need to have incredible arm strength or athleticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 11:49 AM) Ya, people are saying he's right on Bridgewater's heals now for the top qb in the class. I'd take Bridgewater everyday over him. He spins it as good as anyone thats comes out the last several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 12:05 PM) I'd take Bridgewater everyday over him. He spins it as good as anyone thats comes out the last several years. I would too. God I love Bridgewater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Drew Brees has a weak arm, current Peyton Manning has a weak arm, Andy Dalton weak arm and honestly dont think Tom Brady or even Aaron Rodgers have that strong of an arm. That list contains the best QB's in the league plus Dalton so I think arm strength is a bit overrated. Not saying Manziel will make it in the league but I'm sure if he has the talent his arm strength won't be as big a factor as some make it out to be. Tony Romo is another guy who doesn't really have the best arm strength and an extremely successful QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) Drew Brees has a weak arm, current Peyton Manning has a weak arm, Andy Dalton weak arm and honestly dont think Tom Brady or even Aaron Rodgers have that strong of an arm. That list contains the best QB's in the league plus Dalton so I think arm strength is a bit overrated. Not saying Manziel will make it in the league but I'm sure if he has the talent his arm strength won't be as big a factor as some make it out to be. Tony Romo is another guy who doesn't really have the best arm strength and an extremely successful QB. Rodgers has one of the strongest arms in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 07:21 PM) Rodgers has one of the strongest arms in the league. I guess I shouldnt say his arm was weak but he is middle of the pack at best. Arm strength is completely overrated, Jamarcus Russell probably would have the best arm in the league if he could find a team that'd take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I went back to page 220 or whatever of this thread, and someone mentioned that Marshall would be upset if they let his best friend walk and got a new QB. False. Marshall would probably be upset, yes, but they are not best friends. Marshall didn't even stand up at his wedding. They're not best friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 06:05 PM) Drew Brees has a weak arm, current Peyton Manning has a weak arm, Andy Dalton weak arm and honestly dont think Tom Brady or even Aaron Rodgers have that strong of an arm. That list contains the best QB's in the league plus Dalton so I think arm strength is a bit overrated. Not saying Manziel will make it in the league but I'm sure if he has the talent his arm strength won't be as big a factor as some make it out to be. Tony Romo is another guy who doesn't really have the best arm strength and an extremely successful QB. Rodgers and Brady have very strong arms. And everyone that you mentioned except Peyton and including Andy Dalton(why the hell did you mention him?) has a stronger arm than Johnny. Anywho, I'm not saying Manziel isn't going to be a starting QB just cause of his arm strength. When you add up all of his physical tools(arm strength, height, non elite accuracy), I don't see him being a successful NFL starter. Edited October 24, 2013 by Rowand44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 07:45 PM) I guess I shouldnt say his arm was weak but he is middle of the pack at best. Arm strength is completely overrated, Jamarcus Russell probably would have the best arm in the league if he could find a team that'd take him. Rodgers has a cannon. And yes, QBs with one tool don't succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Didn't Rodgers throw a 60+ yards in the air td pass recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 08:26 PM) Didn't Rodgers throw a 60+ yards in the air td pass recently? Ya to Jordy on their play action that's been working forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 09:26 PM) Didn't Rodgers throw a 60+ yards in the air td pass recently? I guess I missed the boat on Rodgers and honestly haven't watched a bunch of Manziel so don't know how weak his arm is. I just feel for the most part in the NFL its the guys with the middle of the road arms that have more success than guys with cannon arms.... so assuming it isnt pathetic bad if the major red flag on a guy is his arm strength I have no problem drafting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 23, 2013 -> 08:02 AM) Why would you compare Jay to Manning in this situation? Peyton has long been one of the absolute best at getting rid of the ball extremely fast and not taking sacks, to compare the Bears new line to his veteran line just seems disingenuous in comparison. What is the average? How much have the bears improved from last year to this year? And putting the spotlight on Mills doesnt seem fair either. For a kid that wasnt even expected to play, having him out there not false starting and holding his own while he learns on the job is pretty impressive to me. I was trying to compare lines, but that's fine. I wanted to give everyone a reference of what a good blocking efficiency would be like. Our line's collective PBE is 29th in the league. Why is our PBE rank different than our collective pass blocking rank (31)? Well, that's because other players have also done a poor job of pass blocking - in our case, Martellus Bennett's negative impact on pass blocking has been almost as poor as our 2nd and 3rd worse pass blocking linemen (Bushrod and Long). Britton has also rated poorly, but his low snap count has restricted how bad it has been. You wanted a reference as to what average is, but I'm not sure how helpful it is. Our PBE is 72 while Denver is 85.2. It is meant to be read as a percentage...kind of. For this formula, we actually have allowed a lot more pressure than a couple teams below us, but it weights hits and sacks more. Jay has done an excellent job of avoiding sacks - he has the second lowest sack rate among QBs this year (10% of pressures become sacks). The worst, Ryan Tannehill, is 29% while the median is about 18%. Jay has cut that almost in half from last year (19%), which had improved from the previous year (24%). His last year in Denver, Jay had a league-best (and best ever recorded by PFF) 6%. To me, this is convincing evidence that the sack rate for an individual player is going to fluctuate based on the coaching. Our scheme has allowed Jay to have options when he sees pressure, much like he did in Denver. As for Mills, his PBE ranks 5th worst among 60 tackles. He has allowed a greater percentage of pressures per snap than any other tackles, but his PBE has been saved by Jay's ability to avoid sacks. His run blocking has ranked negatively, but many magnitudes better than his pass blocking. His run blocking is salvageable and you might even argue that he's a victim of sample size, he ranks around 45 out of 75 eligible in run blocking. Not so with the pass blocking. They rate his ability to avoid penalties well, though almost all players get that benefit. His pass blocking has been very similar to Gabe Carimi, who had the same PBE as a tackle. Gabe actually rated very good as a run blocker, though, so he had a little bit of redemptive value. They've both been horrible though. That doesn't mean "bench Mills now!" Of course, we hope the rookies get better. But it does mean that he has played like absolute s***. Long has been much better, though we should mention he's playing an easier position (tackles will have more polarized ratings than guards, who have less ability to make a positive impact and negative impact due to the relative difficulty of their position). Long has been an excellent run blocker and poor, not horrible in pass protection. The only players I've ever seen with worse PFF ratings than Mills and Carimi is a rookie J'Marcus Webb who finally got to a point where he was around league average last year; rookie Webb and rookie Mills aren't all that different, other than one is on the right and the other was on the left side. Then, for year over year improvement, things are mixed. Pass blocking is worse this year by the various measures, with pretty much the one difference being Jay's newfound ability to get rid of the ball before the actual sack. PBE was 75.7 last year vs 72.0 this year. Last year, though, we finished around 20th in run blocking while this year we have rated 6th. Our actual PFF rating isn't much different (other than 7 game sample vs 16, so we're on pace to be a bit higher over the season), but their run ratings around the league have gone down drastically. That will probably even out as the season progresses, but for now it is safe to say that our run blocking has improved. The pass blocking seems to have improved because our QB is getting sacked and hit a lot less - this might be Jay, but I suspect it is actually the new offensive coaching staff being able to scheme to cover up the deficiencies of the line. So far, Slauson looks like a great acquisition. Mills has played horribly and it is very discouraging that we replaced a guy playing like the worst T in football with another guy playing like the worst T in football; we can choose to let that happen, though, if we believe that he is just taking his lumps and will eventually get better. I'm guessing they found something on tape about Mills because he rated as one of if not the best pass blocker of the week in Week 1 and has been pretty much consistently the worst each week since. Long has been more encouraging, in that he rates well at one thing and not horrible at another. He is more obviously a guy we expect to get better, especially given his relative experience and skillset. Perhaps more worry should be allocated to Bushrod, who has not rated well. He hasn't done very well either, particularly in pass protection. He had a down year last year in pass blocking as well. He had one great year in pass protection and has never replicated it, to this point. He might be a poor expenditure when it is all said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 So apparently the Rams called Favre after Bradford's injury. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9871023/...ce-sam-bradford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 07:15 AM) So apparently the Rams called Favre after Bradford's injury. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9871023/...ce-sam-bradford Definitely made up by ESPN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 07:21 AM) Definitely made up by ESPN. Without a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I don't blame the Rams for calling Favre. You probably aren't going to win many games the rest of the year anyways, might as well sell some tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 I don't blame the Rams for calling Favre. You probably aren't going to win many games the rest of the year anyways, might as well sell some tickets. Favre would sell more tickets than Tebow??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 Anthony Calvillo maybe? He's only 41. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 09:17 AM) Anthony Calvillo maybe? He's only 41. I know this is a joke, but Calvillo is done for the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 10:23 AM) I know this is a joke, but Calvillo is done for the season Do many 41 year olds come back from a season-ending injury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 09:58 AM) Do many 41 year olds come back from a season-ending injury? *calls Bus Cook for confirmation* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 24, 2013 -> 11:01 AM) *calls Bus Cook for confirmation* I asked Favre to send you a text message. Try not to open it at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Love that teams now run the shotgun victory formation because Schiano is such an asshat. Just fire him already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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