"off the field" issues blamed for Ramirez's high error

[greg775]

I find it strange that you can compare Dunn with the Sox to a trainwreck, but you would never compare Ozzie with the sox to a trainwreck.

 

I don't know how anybody could say a negative word about Ozzie right now after watching Robin manage this team. Worst fundamental baseball team I can ever remember and he shares in that.

[Quin]

I don't know how anybody could say a negative word about Ozzie right now after watching Robin manage this team. Worst fundamental baseball team I can ever remember and he shares in that.

 

Just cause one sucks doesn't mean the other didn't (at the end of his tenure)

[LittleHurt05]

I dont really agree with this exactly. Most people have jobs where they come home every night, they aren't working 6 or 7 days a week for 6 months, they aren't on the road for week+ long stretches. With your standard 9 to 5er if you have a death in the family or your wife gives birth you get some serious time off, in baseball you might get a couple days if you're really good and been with a team a long time but most of the time you're still obligated to show up for work. That's tough, and it can wear you out mentally. Not for lack of trying or bad effort, humans can only handle so much no matter what kind of compensation they are seeing in the end.

 

I get that, but it sucks for a fan or season ticket holder, spending all this money to attend games and support a team, only to be forced to watch a player half ass it and suck on the field because their mind isn't there. I feel bad for the player for any serious personal issues, but I just can't buy it as a valid excuse. You are getting paid handomsely to perform on the main stage, if you can't perform near expectations, some criticism is warranted.

Edited August 15, 2013 by LittleHurt05

[NorthSideSox72]

I get that, but it sucks for a fan or season ticket holder, spending all this money to attend games and support a team, only to be forced to watch a player half ass it and suck on the field because their mind isn't there. I feel bad for the player for any serious personal issues, but I just can't buy it as a valid excuse. You are getting paid handomsely to perform on the main stage, if you can't perform near expectations, some criticism is warranted.

I find this thought process absurd bordering on offensive. I'm a season ticket holder, and I certainly do get frustrated by players like Rios who won't make the effort out there - I do expect that. But I can tell you two things. One, most people who have "normal" jobs, are given plenty of time off (paid, or FMLA unpaid by law) for family medical needs, so your previous idea that it would "get you fired" is way off base. Two, while I can be frustrated by the way a player is doing, I really can't be mad at said player if they show up every day and work but just can't put it all together because of something as serious as a very ill child. If you ever have children, I think you'll change your tune.

 

[Balta1701]

I find it strange that you can compare Dunn with the Sox to a trainwreck, but you would never compare Ozzie with the sox to a trainwreck.

If Dunn had hit 60 HR his second season with the Sox and carried them to a WS title, I might care a lot less about him putting up one of the worst seasons in MLB history in his first season.

[LittleHurt05]

I find this thought process absurd bordering on offensive. I'm a season ticket holder, and I certainly do get frustrated by players like Rios who won't make the effort out there - I do expect that. But I can tell you two things. One, most people who have "normal" jobs, are given plenty of time off (paid, or FMLA unpaid by law) for family medical needs, so your previous idea that it would "get you fired" is way off base. Two, while I can be frustrated by the way a player is doing, I really can't be mad at said player if they show up every day and work but just can't put it all together because of something as serious as a very ill child. If you ever have children, I think you'll change your tune.

 

That depends on your job. You are only eligible for FMLA if your employer has 50 or more employees. When my wife was having a baby, she was offered 6 weeks unpaid leave, that's it. (Yes, I do have a child).

 

If something is that serious at home, then why doesn't the baseball player take time off? I'd respect him more if he left to take care of his personal issues that matter more, instead of flailing away, putting up an all-time historically bad season while stealing money from the club.

[Kyyle23]

I don't know how anybody could say a negative word about Ozzie right now after watching Robin manage this team. Worst fundamental baseball team I can ever remember and he shares in that.

 

Robin doesnt have his daughters ripping the Sox on twitter for him. And Ozzie presided over some pretty s***ty fundamental teams, so I can rip all I want

[southsider2k5]

That depends on your job. You are only eligible for FMLA if your employer has 50 or more employees. When my wife was having a baby, she was offered 6 weeks unpaid leave, that's it. (Yes, I do have a child).

 

If something is that serious at home, then why doesn't the baseball player take time off? I'd respect him more if he left to take care of his personal issues that matter more, instead of flailing away, putting up an all-time historically bad season while stealing money from the club.

 

most people aren't paid for FMLA outside of what they can cover with vacation and sick time.

[NorthSideSox72]

That depends on your job. You are only eligible for FMLA if your employer has 50 or more employees. When my wife was having a baby, she was offered 6 weeks unpaid leave, that's it. (Yes, I do have a child).

 

If something is that serious at home, then why doesn't the baseball player take time off? I'd respect him more if he left to take care of his personal issues that matter more, instead of flailing away, putting up an all-time historically bad season while stealing money from the club.

That is a better question. In theory, though I've never seen it come up, a player could probably take FMLA leave, unpaid. On the other hand, a player doesn't necessarily KNOW he can't do it, until he tries. And so you are taking an asset away from your teammates.

 

But you seem to be making an assumption that this is an effort thing. For Dunn at least, it isn't, not from what I've seen. I am sure he thought he could play through it, and wanted to. It just wasn't happening. But each day, he'd be thinking he could play.

 

I just don't see holding it against him, at all.

 

[LittleHurt05]

most people aren't paid for FMLA outside of what they can cover with vacation and sick time.

 

This is very true, but they are still given the option of 12 weeks leave with a job guaranteed to come back to.

[LittleHurt05]

That is a better question. In theory, though I've never seen it come up, a player could probably take FMLA leave, unpaid. On the other hand, a player doesn't necessarily KNOW he can't do it, until he tries. And so you are taking an asset away from your teammates.

 

But you seem to be making an assumption that this is an effort thing. For Dunn at least, it isn't, not from what I've seen. I am sure he thought he could play through it, and wanted to. It just wasn't happening. But each day, he'd be thinking he could play.

 

I just don't see holding it against him, at all.

 

Dunn is a bad example for this, because he never made excuses of it, he never mentioned at all. He took full blame to his awful season, whether or not his personal life affected him or not. I respect him for that. Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned it in response, and that's how he was brought up.

 

I get disappointed when excuses are made, like Robin bringing up Alexei's off-the-field stuff as an excuse for his awful defensive play this year. Or Torii Hunter doing the same for Prince. I realize it could be hard to do your job with other stuff on your mind, but these players are handsomely paid to perform on the grand stage, if you underperform, I think the player should take full blame or he shouldn't be on the field then.

[cabiness42]

Dunn is a bad example for this, because he never made excuses of it, he never mentioned at all. He took full blame to his awful season, whether or not his personal life affected him or not. I respect him for that. Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned it in response, and that's how he was brought up.

 

I get disappointed when excuses are made, like Robin bringing up Alexei's off-the-field stuff as an excuse for his awful defensive play this year. Or Torii Hunter doing the same for Prince. I realize it could be hard to do your job with other stuff on your mind, but these players are handsomely paid to perform on the grand stage, if you underperform, I think the player should take full blame or he shouldn't be on the field then.

 

I don't think it's a good idea to ever bring it up in public, but I also have some compassion for these situations. For most of us, if a personal or health issue causes us to perform our jobs at less than peak, the company can survive for a while with our sub-par performance, or we can take time off and either somebody else fills in and/or whatever we're working on can wait until we get back.

 

For professional athletes at the highest level, the team takes a serious hit if the player has to be out for a while, and even if the player manages to play through it but at a less than peak level, the team still suffers.

 

[bmags]

I don't think it's a good idea to ever bring it up in public, but I also have some compassion for these situations. For most of us, if a personal or health issue causes us to perform our jobs at less than peak, the company can survive for a while with our sub-par performance, or we can take time off and either somebody else fills in and/or whatever we're working on can wait until we get back.

 

For professional athletes at the highest level, the team takes a serious hit if the player has to be out for a while, and even if the player manages to play through it but at a less than peak level, the team still suffers.

 

No No No, any player coming from poverty who suddenly becomes a millionaire forfeits all rights to being a human. Sick child? Who cares! I'm a season ticket holder, buddy.

[TaylorStSox]

Dunn is a bad example for this, because he never made excuses of it, he never mentioned at all. He took full blame to his awful season, whether or not his personal life affected him or not. I respect him for that. Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned it in response, and that's how he was brought up.

 

I get disappointed when excuses are made, like Robin bringing up Alexei's off-the-field stuff as an excuse for his awful defensive play this year. Or Torii Hunter doing the same for Prince. I realize it could be hard to do your job with other stuff on your mind, but these players are handsomely paid to perform on the grand stage, if you underperform, I think the player should take full blame or he shouldn't be on the field then.

Ramirez has struggled defensively, but he's been far from awful.

[Soxbadger]

Dunn is a bad example for this, because he never made excuses of it, he never mentioned at all. He took full blame to his awful season, whether or not his personal life affected him or not. I respect him for that. Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned it in response, and that's how he was brought up.

 

I get disappointed when excuses are made, like Robin bringing up Alexei's off-the-field stuff as an excuse for his awful defensive play this year. Or Torii Hunter doing the same for Prince. I realize it could be hard to do your job with other stuff on your mind, but these players are handsomely paid to perform on the grand stage, if you underperform, I think the player should take full blame or he shouldn't be on the field then.

 

Well last I checked its not the employees decision on who is working. So if the employer wants you to suit up, you suit up. Your arguments are bordering on the absurd. Who cares how much they are paid, they arent being paid because they are unemotional robots, they are being paid because they are the best baseball players.

 

You cant compare this to normal jobs. Most people at a normal job arent in the top 1% in their field. Most people at normal jobs dont bring unique skill sets that cant be easily replaced. When you have that, then employers give you leeway because its in the employers best interest. At any point they can bench Dunn or Ramirez.

 

As for the excuses, what does it matter. If something factually happened, why can it not be brought up? Maybe its impacting them, maybe it isnt. If you want to argue that Dunn's son had nothing to do with his bad hitting and that its because he sucked and stopped practicing, go for it. No one is stopping you.

 

I just dont see why anyone would be disappointed in a human being a human. The amount of money you are paid doesnt change that.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Soxbadger

[southsider2k5]

Dunn is a bad example for this, because he never made excuses of it, he never mentioned at all. He took full blame to his awful season, whether or not his personal life affected him or not. I respect him for that. Somebody earlier in the thread mentioned it in response, and that's how he was brought up.

 

I get disappointed when excuses are made, like Robin bringing up Alexei's off-the-field stuff as an excuse for his awful defensive play this year. Or Torii Hunter doing the same for Prince. I realize it could be hard to do your job with other stuff on your mind, but these players are handsomely paid to perform on the grand stage, if you underperform, I think the player should take full blame or he shouldn't be on the field then.

 

You wouldn't step up to help a friend or co-worker if you knew they were having a rough spot, and someone else was pounding on them? Both Robin and Torii are just being decent people and trying to protect their teammates. Nothing wrong with that, IMO.

[Marty34]

Ramirez has struggled defensively, but he's been far from awful.

 

Like most he's had a bad year overall.

[Balta1701]

Like most he's had a bad year overall.

In the eyes of fangraphs he's actually performing a lot better than last year. The errors have hurt his defense but he's getting on base a lot more and he's doing a ton of damage on the basepaths.

[LittleHurt05]

You wouldn't step up to help a friend or co-worker if you knew they were having a rough spot, and someone else was pounding on them? Both Robin and Torii are just being decent people and trying to protect their teammates. Nothing wrong with that, IMO.

 

Is the public announcement really helping them though? I don't know. Just read that Prince filed for divorce from his wife of 8 years, so there's that.

[southsider2k5]

Is the public announcement really helping them though? I don't know. Just read that Prince filed for divorce from his wife of 8 years, so there's that.

 

Well for one, when I read about someone having problems with the kids, I instantly change my tune about their performance. I can't imagine having something like that go on, and how it would effect me.

[Texsox]

And how many players use their sport (employees work) to get their mind off their troubles?

 

Yeah, I have some compassion and empathy, but sucking is sucking and at some level players and employees are responsible for their work. The comparison is kind of unfair between "regular jobs" and athletes. There are not that many people on the planet that can do the things that Ramirez and Dunn were hired to do and there are severe restrictions on their employer's ability to hire a replacement, even part time. With great compensation comes greater expectations. These aren't hourly Joe Sixpacks.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

What I find puzzling is why whatever issue this is would bother him in the field but not on the bases or at the plate.

[Chicago White Sox]

What I find puzzling is why whatever issue this is would bother him in the field but not on the bases or at the plate.

I thought the same thing, but clearly there is more time to zone out in the field than at the plate.

[NorthSideSox72]

What I find puzzling is why whatever issue this is would bother him in the field but not on the bases or at the plate.

Not at the plate? Alexei has had a very different year than usual. He hasn't been as awful as some suggest, but he's lost a lot of power numbers. He does seem different at the plate to me.

 

[southsider2k5]

Since no one else has posed the question yet... steroids?