Max Scherzer

[GreatScott82]

Have you been paying attention how Hahn is building this team?

Ummm yes I have. I also saw him almost sign a starting pitcher for a TON of $$. It's obvious he wants a right handed ACE.

Edited March 28, 2014 by GreatScott82

[GreatScott82]

Adding a top-of-the-rotation starter trumps any need in my opinion. Zero interest in Scherzer though.

Agreed with the first part. I disagree with your last part. If the price is right, I say go after him hard. Hopefully he changes agents to increase those chances.

[southsider2k5]

Ummm yes I have. I also saw him almost sign a starting pitcher for a TON of $$. It's obvious he wants a right handed ACE.

 

And he was no where near the 6/144 that Scherzer turned down in his bid for Tanaka. Think about that.

[BlackSox13]

Not to s*** on anyone's rib but not only do I not want Max, I don't think it will happen either. Max is too costly in both money and length of contract for what the Sox are looking to accomplish and I wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees made an offer next off season.

 

Just not a fit.

[Kyyle23]

Ummm yes I have. I also saw him almost sign a starting pitcher for a TON of $$. It's obvious he wants a right handed ACE.

 

Every time Hahn talks about the pursuit of Tanaka he mentions how his age played into it. Scherzer is older and you just can't count on power pitchers like him staying healthy. It just doesn't make sense for the White Sox

[Chicago White Sox]

Adding a top-of-the-rotation starter trumps any need in my opinion. Zero interest in Scherzer though.

While I think finding a #2 starter is important, I'm not sure how a left-handed power hitter and a legit starting catcher aren't bigger needs. Regardless, give me Masterson over Scherzer, who will come a hell of a lot cheaper and is a perfect fit for our ballpark.

[glangon]

While I think finding a #2 starter is important, I'm not sure how a left-handed power hitter and a legit starting catcher aren't bigger needs. Regardless, give me Masterson over Scherzer, who will come a hell of a lot cheaper and is a perfect fit for our ballpark.

 

I agree with this.

 

I can see Scherzer not having as great a year this year.

 

He could be the new Esteban Loiza......

 

We have a Number 1 in Sale and a number 2 in Quintana, a number 4 in Johnson.

 

I agree that someone like Masterson should be targetted as the number 3 and someone like Snodgrass or Beck as the number 5 for next year.

 

A lot of things could happen before then though. Scherzer could be introduced to Tommy John....

[caulfield12]

I agree with this.

 

I can see Scherzer not having as great a year this year.

 

He could be the new Esteban Loiza......

 

We have a Number 1 in Sale and a number 2 in Quintana, a number 4 in Johnson.

 

I agree that someone like Masterson should be targetted as the number 3 and someone like Snodgrass or Beck as the number 5 for next year.

 

A lot of things could happen before then though. Scherzer could be introduced to Tommy John....

 

Masterson's definitely more of a 2, he's a "stopper" for lots of Indians losing streaks, and the pitcher they really look to as their ace.

 

He won't come cheap, but nothing like Scherzer's contract.

 

 

That said, he'll get more than Abreu and more than Sale currently "friendly" deals on an open market, conservatively, around $90 million, but possibly $110-120.

 

He is a sinkerball pitcher, and that's important at USCF, but I once again don't see the White Sox wading into those waters.

 

It's a close call, if you could have Tanaka or Masterson at roughly the same price...the potential is greater for Tanaka, but the floor is lot higher for what Masterson will give you. And nobody knows exactly how many pitches that Tanaka already has on that arm.

 

FWIW, Masterson just turned 29, near that magic cutoff mark of 30 for long-term deals.

 

 

 

Snodgress has really fallen off the map recently, the pitching version of Tyler Saladino.

Edited March 28, 2014 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Masterson will be 30 next year. He has also been just as inconsistent as Santana and Jimenez, yet will cost more money, and a draft pick, perhaps even a first rounder.

[Chicago White Sox]

Masterson will be 30 next year. He has also been just as inconsistent as Santana and Jimenez, yet will cost more money, and a draft pick, perhaps even a first rounder.

So who should we target then Dick? We're going to have a ton of money to work with next offseason and hopefully should a few key players away from being serious contenders (if all goes right this season).

[southsider2k5]

So who should we target then Dick? We're going to have a ton of money to work with next offseason and hopefully should a few key players away from being serious contenders (if all goes right this season).

 

We aren't spending nine figures on a starting pitcher. That's not how this works. That isn't how any of this works.

[beautox]

Hopefully the Sox near future is:

 

Sale

The guy we get in 70 days

Quintana

Johnson

Beck

 

The Sox aren't giving 20+ mil to anyone, especially not one of their own.

Rodon or Beede but I agree with you on this.

[Dick Allen]

So who should we target then Dick? We're going to have a ton of money to work with next offseason and hopefully should a few key players away from being serious contenders (if all goes right this season).

If you don't like Jimenez or Santana for 4 years and $50 million, and a second round pick I don't understand how you can like Masterson next year for significantly more money and a higher draft pick.

 

See how this season goes. You don't have to have targets on free agents yet. I will say, one of the reasons I thought the Sox should target the above THIS year is the price tag. You will be giving up a lot more later for something similar both in money and draft pick. I liked Jimenez a little more than Santana, but it is funny that Don Cooper is a supposedly a genius, but if an expensive free agent pitcher signed this season, they certainly would bust. Hopefully the Sox young starters and Paulino are as good as some posters here think so it will be a non issue.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

We aren't spending nine figures on a starting pitcher. That's not how this works. That isn't how any of this works.

Except we just offered Tanaka nine figures. I get there is an age difference there, but let's not pretend Tanaka wouldn't be just as risky, being a complete unknown, as signing Masterson would be. And Masterson will come a lot cheaper than Tanaka as well. The Sox have been willing to take on more risk with starting pitching as of late, with the Danks deal being the first 5 year deal is god knows how long. Tanaka would be 5+ years as well. We're going to have money to burn next offseason, I think people are seriously underestimating how aggressive we'll be in free agency.

[witesoxfan]

I wouldn't go higher than 150M for 7 years for sure. If teams start bidding out of control than forget about it. I just don't think he will get as much money as people anticipate. I do think Hahn will be in the running for Max... at least until the bidding gets out of control. And if it does, than you were all right- he will not sign with us.

 

He just turned down 6/$144, which is $24 mill a year, so why would he accept a deal that pays him $21.4 mill a year with an extra year? He is said to want 8 years anyways.

 

There are three rough scenarios that will play out here.

 

1) Scherzer is healthy, has a great year, and is primed for a huge payday in free agency, somewhere around 8 years, $200 mill. The Sox don't want him.

2) Scherzer is healthy, has an OK year, and is primed for a huge payday in free agency, somewhere around 5-8 years at $20-25 mill a year with incentives and options and opt outs. The Sox don't want him.

3) Scherzer is not healthy, it doesn't matter how he performs, and he's looking at a 1 year prove it deal in the range of $10-20 mill. He either performs really well and bolts for a big offer the next year, or he doesn't and it ultimately hurts the team at the current cost. The Sox don't want him.

 

Logistically speaking, there is no way the Sox should have any interest in Max Scherzer.

 

Adding a top-of-the-rotation starter trumps any need in my opinion. Zero interest in Scherzer though.

 

When it comes to starting players, I don't want to say any particular needs trumps any other - it's a need for a reason. Still, I agree with the general premise that, if you can get another top of the rotation at a fair cost, you pull the trigger without worrying about other potential positions of need.

[caulfield12]

If you don't like Jimenez or Santana for 4 years and $50 million, and a second round pick I don't understand how you can like Masterson next year for significantly more money and a higher draft pick.

 

See how this season goes. You don't have to have targets on free agents yet. I will say, one of the reasons I thought the Sox should target the above THIS year is the price tag. You will be giving up a lot more later for something similar both in money and draft pick. I liked Jimenez a little more than Santana, but it is funny that Don Cooper is a supposedly a genius, but if an expensive free agent pitcher signed this season, they certainly would bust. Hopefully the Sox young starters and Paulino are as good as some posters here think so it will be a non issue.

 

I think you can never discount the heightened risk of injury to a pitcher at age 30 and beyond these days.

 

It's not a matter of whether or not they would bust, it's simply a matter of the likelihood that if you took 5-6 different chances with the equivalent of a Paulino, versus one Santana/Jimenez/Garza, then 90% of the time you'd be better off taking the lower risk bets that one of them would pay off versus the 50-75% chance you'd end up disappointed in the big name veteran "non ace" #3 starter.

 

Of course, it's not even realistically possible to fill our rotation with 5-6 Paulino's, nor would we ever want to....but the White Sox seem to be betting on getting a higher return on their bullpen arms than any part of the roster at this point.

Edited March 28, 2014 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

When it comes to starting players, I don't want to say any particular needs trumps any other - it's a need for a reason. Still, I agree with the general premise that, if you can get another top of the rotation at a fair cost, you pull the trigger without worrying about other potential positions of need.

Just to stress....it's going to be extremely difficult to get any healthy, successful, prime-aged starter at "a fair cost" on the free agent market. That's just not what the FA market is built to do.

[caulfield12]

He just turned down 6/$144, which is $24 mill a year, so why would he accept a deal that pays him $21.4 mill a year with an extra year? He is said to want 8 years anyways.

 

There are three rough scenarios that will play out here.

 

1) Scherzer is healthy, has a great year, and is primed for a huge payday in free agency, somewhere around 8 years, $200 mill. The Sox don't want him.

2) Scherzer is healthy, has an OK year, and is primed for a huge payday in free agency, somewhere around 5-8 years at $20-25 mill a year with incentives and options and opt outs. The Sox don't want him.

3) Scherzer is not healthy, it doesn't matter how he performs, and he's looking at a 1 year prove it deal in the range of $10-20 mill. He either performs really well and bolts for a big offer the next year, or he doesn't and it ultimately hurts the team at the current cost. The Sox don't want him.

 

Logistically speaking, there is no way the Sox should have any interest in Max Scherzer.

 

 

 

When it comes to starting players, I don't want to say any particular needs trumps any other - it's a need for a reason. Still, I agree with the general premise that, if you can get another top of the rotation at a fair cost, you pull the trigger without worrying about other potential positions of need.

 

And yet there's not even much of an agreement here whether Justin Masterson constitutes a top of the rotation starter.

 

Tanaka was/is projected to be an "ace," but that's just another version of Jose Abreu risk-wise, with twice the money invested.

[caulfield12]

Just to stress....it's going to be extremely difficult to get any healthy, successful, prime-aged starter at "a fair cost" on the free agent market. That's just not what the FA market is built to do.

 

 

It's likely to be someone coming off an injury like Josh Johnson where we can have a club option (at least) on a second year...if they even feel they need to add another pitcher this offseason.

 

Or a Liriano type situation..."change of environment" trade, the pitching equivalent of dealing Beckham or the Borchard/Thornton move back in the day.

 

Finally, the dreaded "character issue" guys, like AJ or Eaton supposedly (I mean, ones that had fallen out of favor a bit in the clubhouse, with their teammates/management).

Edited March 28, 2014 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

Just to stress....it's going to be extremely difficult to get any healthy, successful, prime-aged starter at "a fair cost" on the free agent market. That's just not what the FA market is built to do.

 

I can't think of the last time the Sox signed a free agent top of the rotation starting pitcher though. It was probably Jamie Navarro, though that's stretching the definition of the phrase top of the rotation.

 

I can recall several instances where they traded for one though, and it was (almost) always at a fair cost.

[southsider2k5]

Except we just offered Tanaka nine figures. I get there is an age difference there, but let's not pretend Tanaka wouldn't be just as risky, being a complete unknown, as signing Masterson would be. And Masterson will come a lot cheaper than Tanaka as well. The Sox have been willing to take on more risk with starting pitching as of late, with the Danks deal being the first 5 year deal is god knows how long. Tanaka would be 5+ years as well. We're going to have money to burn next offseason, I think people are seriously underestimating how aggressive we'll be in free agency.

 

Masterson will be a nine figure pitcher when he hits the free agent market. I see Tanaka as a special exception, because we sure didn't look at anyone else besides him.

[Balta1701]

Masterson will be a nine figure pitcher when he hits the free agent market. I see Tanaka as a special exception, because we sure didn't look at anyone else besides him.

I looked at Masterson's stats and he's one of those guys who has alternated between years with ERA's in the mid 3's and years in the high 4's. If he repeats another good year this year yeah, he'll push 9 figures, but there's a downside chance on him this year too

[ptatc]

I wouldn't go higher than 150M for 7 years for sure. If teams start bidding out of control than forget about it. I just don't think he will get as much money as people anticipate. I do think Hahn will be in the running for Max... at least until the bidding gets out of control. And if it does, than you were all right- he will not sign with us.

 

I do think we will draft a starting pitcher with the 3rd overall pick- however, it may take 2 to 3 years for him to develop. With that said, other than Max- who will Hahn go after?

The Sox would never give a pitcher that age that many years. It's not a good move regardless of how good they are. The money is fine but 7 years to a 30 year old pitcher? No way.

[southsider2k5]

The Sox would never give a pitcher that age that many years. It's not a good move regardless of how good they are. The money is fine but 7 years to a 30 year old pitcher? No way.

 

Considering the ages of the pitchers they gave long term deals to, Scherzer doesn't fit at all.

[RockRaines]

0.0 chance. Thanks for playing.