Sox sign Tommy Hanson

[witesoxfan]

Heck, I'd almost rather have Daniel Webb start games, but that's not a real option.

 

As noted in the thread, we don't really have a long man right now, and I know the White Sox are just trying to help him ease into a set-up role, but I hope he doesn't become the forgotten/banished guy like Hector Santiago.

 

You mean they guy they traded to get the Opening Day centerfielder?

 

You really bring up some off the wall stuff that does not compute. Santiago was anything but forgotten or banished. For crying out loud, Ventura made him the closer as a rookie out of spring training!

[caulfield12]

You mean they guy they traded to get the Opening Day centerfielder?

 

You really bring up some off the wall stuff that does not compute. Santiago was anything but forgotten or banished. For crying out loud, Ventura made him the closer as a rookie out of spring training!

 

 

Yes, and then he almost completely disappeared from the team for about 6-7 weeks...even though he was still on the major league roster.

[caulfield12]

Signing guys like this stops the team from rushing players. It also gives a team that needs more talent, another pipeline to get talent. The odds of someone like Tommy Hanson being good again are small. But are the odds smaller than say an A ball pitcher that they get in a trade? Are they smaller than a draft pick? It is just another route to bringing talent into the system, and it is a route we as a franchise have been pretty successful at.

 

Again, I don't get mocking the idea of signing a guy like Tommy Hanson.

 

 

PTAC said it best...the odds of coming back from all those injuries, with his type of violent delivery...very miniscule.

 

Sure, there's no risk. He's not taking time away from a legitimate starting prospect in AA or AAA...so there's really nothing to lose, either. If it doesn't work out, it is just like the case with Cleto, Boggs or Guerra.

Edited April 8, 2014 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

Yes, and then he almost completely disappeared from the team for about 6-7 weeks...even though he was still on the major league roster.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...p&year=2012

 

He didn't disappear, he just kept crapping his pants in high leverage situations, so they used him in low leverage situations. If a guy can't be trusted in important spots, are you really going to blame the manager for not putting him into the game in those situations?

[southsider2k5]

PTAC said it best...the odds of coming back from all those injuries, with his type of violent delivery...very miniscule.

 

Sure, there's no risk. He's not taking time away from a legitimate starting prospect in AA or AAA...so there's really nothing to lose, either. If it doesn't work out, it is just like the case with Cleto, Boggs or Guerra.

 

And for a team like the White Sox, he is worth the risk. If he doesn't succeed, you send him on his merry way for the next guy.

[Bigsoxhurt35]

You're telling me you honestly want to start Chris Beck when he's not close to being ready?

 

Then what happens when you completely destroy his confidence...it would be one thing if he was striking out 9-12 batters per game, but he's usually at 3-6.

 

 

Or that you would rather see Axelrod/Doyle, etc.?

 

As it is, we're already dealing with one youngster's growing pains in Johnson. He has only made six major league starts. Pretty soon, some will be calling for him to be sent down for more seasoning.

I'd rather see Rienzo. Not beck. Let beck develop more.

[caulfield12]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...p&year=2012

 

He didn't disappear, he just kept crapping his pants in high leverage situations, so they used him in low leverage situations. If a guy can't be trusted in important spots, are you really going to blame the manager for not putting him into the game in those situations?

 

 

 

Well, this has been argued a million times.

 

Someone with his repertoire and the required feel for pitches (especially the screwball change)...and the fact that he was a starter as soon as he came into own after that one season in winter ball...and never a closer...it was pretty short-sighted.

 

In retrospect, they were probably worried about his high pitch counts and 4-5 inning starts taxing the pen. On the other hand, those elevated pitch counts were due to control/command issues and not going to disappear simply by being placed in high leverage situations. In fact, it was the opposite...he didn't feel enough confidence in his pitches because he was so accustomed to starting that he quickly found himself relying (out of the pen) on just two pitches when he didn't have the command of the screwball, and batters started to sit on the fastball, too.

Edited April 8, 2014 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Well, this has been argued a million times.

 

Someone with his repertoire and the required feel for pitches (especially the screwball change)...and the fact that he was a starter as soon as he came into own after that one season in winter ball...and never a closer...it was pretty short-sighted.

 

In retrospect, they were probably worried about his high pitch counts and 4-5 inning starts taxing the pen. On the other hand, those elevated pitch counts were due to control/command issues and not going to disappear simply by being placed in high leverage situations. In fact, it was the opposite...he didn't feel enough confidence in his pitches because he was so accustomed to starting that he quickly found himself relying (out of the pen) on just two pitches when he didn't have the command of the screwball, and batters started to sit on the fastball, too.

Always an excuse for Santiago, and I'm sure it is all Ventura's fault and Cooper had nothing to do with it in your mind. What was his excuse his first start with the Angels?

[caulfield12]

Always an excuse for Santiago, and I'm sure it is all Ventura's fault and Cooper had nothing to do with it in your mind. What was his excuse his first start with the Angels?

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7900/

 

What's his excuse? He's getting paid a lot more than Santiago. He's supposed to be a 2 guy, not a back of the rotation guy like Hector.

 

We would be 0-2 in his starts, by the way, not 1-1 like we are with Paulino.

Edited April 8, 2014 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7900/

 

What's his excuse? He's getting paid a lot more than Santiago. He's supposed to be a 2 guy, not a back of the rotation guy like Hector.

 

We would be 0-2 in his starts, by the way, not 1-1 like we are with Paulino.

 

Yeah, don't bring this up. There's no point to it.

[southsider2k5]

Well, this has been argued a million times.

 

Someone with his repertoire and the required feel for pitches (especially the screwball change)...and the fact that he was a starter as soon as he came into own after that one season in winter ball...and never a closer...it was pretty short-sighted.

 

In retrospect, they were probably worried about his high pitch counts and 4-5 inning starts taxing the pen. On the other hand, those elevated pitch counts were due to control/command issues and not going to disappear simply by being placed in high leverage situations. In fact, it was the opposite...he didn't feel enough confidence in his pitches because he was so accustomed to starting that he quickly found himself relying (out of the pen) on just two pitches when he didn't have the command of the screwball, and batters started to sit on the fastball, too.

 

To me, there are some similarities with Paulino and Santiago in how they attack the zone. Well, they don't. They waste a lot of pitches out of the zone, walk a lot of batters, and put themselves into a lot of high stress situations. Granted they are two different pitchers, but neither is very fond of efficient pitching performances.

[Dick Allen]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7900/

 

What's his excuse? He's getting paid a lot more than Santiago. He's supposed to be a 2 guy, not a back of the rotation guy like Hector.

 

We would be 0-2 in his starts, by the way, not 1-1 like we are with Paulino.

First off, I'm not making excuses, you are.

 

Yes, always compare how guys pitch vs. Boston and they will put up exactly the same numbers in 39 degree temps vs. Minnesota. Nice argument.

 

And if you really truly think Hector is a back of the rotation starter, why do you always have excuses for him? Seems to me if Eaton can play, the White Sox handled him perfectly.

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

To me, there are some similarities with Paulino and Santiago in how they attack the zone. Well, they don't. They waste a lot of pitches out of the zone, walk a lot of batters, and put themselves into a lot of high stress situations. Granted they are two different pitchers, but neither is very fond of efficient pitching performances.

 

 

And that's where Cooper has to step in...Jose Contreras had higher pitch counts and more hesitancy to use his fastball than any pitcher with his two plus pitches (fastball/forkball) that I'd ever seen.

 

All he would do was nibble around the zone, he was so gunshy about getting his fastball hit, even though it was consistently at 95-97 when he came to the Sox in 2004.

 

Then it all got straightened out for 4-5 months. The only one I remember who was worse at making every inning last forever was Jason Bere.

Edited April 8, 2014 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

First off, I'm not making excuses, you are.

 

Yes, always compare how guys pitch vs. Boston and they will put up exactly the same numbers in 39 degree temps vs. Minnesota. Nice argument.

 

And if you really truly think Hector is a back of the rotation starter, why do you always have excuses for him? Seems to me if Eaton can play, the White Sox handled him perfectly.

 

 

I don't. I think he can be a 3, and will be a 4 at worst.

 

By the way, I'm not the only one who thinks the White Sox didn't utilize him correctly...or mismanaged him.

 

 

 

But I've also been happy with the energy Eaton has been bringing...as long as it doesn't end up getting him hurt all the time, like Rowand.

[Buehrle>Wood]

By the way, I'm not the only one who thinks the White Sox didn't utilize him correctly...or mismanaged him.

I am pretty confident every Sox fan would agree.

[Quin]

I view Paulino and Hanson like Humber, basically a failure that may be a lottery ticket for a year or two.

 

Had the Sox traded Humber that offseason, they might have been able to get a good prospect or two for him, so I'd hope to do the same with Paulino/Hanson.

[Dick Allen]

I don't. I think he can be a 3, and will be a 4 at worst.

 

By the way, I'm not the only one who thinks the White Sox didn't utilize him correctly...or mismanaged him.

 

 

 

But I've also been happy with the energy Eaton has been bringing...as long as it doesn't end up getting him hurt all the time, like Rowand.

The Angels must really be messing with him. 4 1/3 innings, 94 pitches.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

The Angels must really be messing with him. 4 1/3 innings, 94 pitches.

 

I've watched 2 of his starts this season (I think he's only had 2...) and he's been typical Hector. Difference this year is he isn't escaping the big innings like he did for the Sox. I love Hector as a human being, but I think Hahn sold high and made the right call on Hector. Destined for the bullpen.

[southsider2k5]

I am pretty confident every Sox fan would agree.

 

 

Not really, no. I think Hector was his worst enemy. The Sox look for guys with big stuff, but they also look for guys to throw strikes and keep pitch counts down. Hector wasn't that guy, and they probably got to the point where they figured he wasn't going to be that guy. Then they got a starting CF for the next six years for him, so it worked out fine.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Not really, no. I think Hector was his worst enemy. The Sox look for guys with big stuff, but they also look for guys to throw strikes and keep pitch counts down. Hector wasn't that guy, and they probably got to the point where they figured he wasn't going to be that guy. Then they got a starting CF for the next six years for him, so it worked out fine.

So you don't think jerking him from bullpen to starter to bullpen to starter back to bullpen and then back to starter at the peak of his development process was mismanging him? Come on man...

Edited April 9, 2014 by Buehrle>Wood

[caulfield12]

Not really, no. I think Hector was his worst enemy. The Sox look for guys with big stuff, but they also look for guys to throw strikes and keep pitch counts down. Hector wasn't that guy, and they probably got to the point where they figured he wasn't going to be that guy. Then they got a starting CF for the next six years for him, so it worked out fine.

 

Rarely works out that way. We'll see.

 

A year ago, the DBacks thought Eaton was going to be their CFer for a decade. Now it's Pollock. Things can change quickly. Or look at Carlos Quentin and how quickly he fell out of favor.

 

If Avisail Garcia, Davidson and Eaton are all here and starting six years from now...it would be amazing.

[southsider2k5]

So you don't think jerking him from bullpen to starter to bullpen to starter back to bullpen and then back to starter at the peak of his development process was mismanging him? Come on man...

 

I think the guy throwing too many pitches was a much bigger problem than the other stuff. I think that is why they tried to make him a closer, where pitch count doesn't matter as much. If Santiago could manage a game better, it would have been an easy move to make him a starter, but he can't. You can't deny the arm, but it really looks like there isn't much between the ears to match it.

[Balta1701]

I think the guy throwing too many pitches was a much bigger problem than the other stuff. I think that is why they tried to make him a closer, where pitch count doesn't matter as much. If Santiago could manage a game better, it would have been an easy move to make him a starter, but he can't. You can't deny the arm, but it really looks like there isn't much between the ears to match it.

I think "Throwing too many pitches" was a direct consequence of moving him back and forth between the bullpen and the rotation. See how the fangraphs piece noted that Chris Sale took a couple years to really integrate his changeup as a weapon to right handers? A guy bouncing back and forth between the pen and rotation doesn't get to use his full arsenal so he doesn't get to work on control with those 3rd and 4th pitches.

[Kyyle23]

i think Hector was incredibly inefficient, and that was a problem well before he was shuffled back and forth.

[TheTruth05]

i think Hector was incredibly inefficient, and that was a problem well before he was shuffled back and forth.

 

Hector has some good stuff, just struggled with his command too much which would lead him into those 30-40 pitch 5th innings where he would be pulled.