Konerko's Farewell Tour

[LittleHurt05]

Wow, tough grader.

Bad for 2.5 years? Are you counting this year? This year he's not being given a fair chance. He's actually still a decent player in my book. He's still the best at scooping throws. Until the last 20 or so at bats was around .250. I won't go on my diatribe about Mr. 44 RBI Adam Dunn, but Paul Konerko is the LEAST of the Sox problems the past several years IMO.

I can't understand why Sox fans aren't showing him total love like Yankee fans with Jeter. This guy won us a world series. Let me ask you. What do you think the odds are of the Sox ever winning another one in your lifetime? I'd say the odds are about 50-1. Jerry isn't going to win another one. It will be a matter of who gets the team and if it's Jerry's relative, the odds remain at best 50-1 in your lifetime IMO. If it's somebody like Cuban with money money money the odds will improve. Thank u Paul Konerko!

 

This post reminds me about how 2005 conveniently makes Sox fans forget that the team perennially underachieved throught the 2000s. Given their size of payroll year after year, two division titles since 2001 is pretty awful. With the franchise's all-time WS futility, I'd rather have the one World Series instead of 7 division titles and no ring, but they really should have been more successful.

 

[greg775]

This post reminds me about how 2005 conveniently makes Sox fans forget that the team perennially underachieved throught the 2000s. Given their size of payroll year after year, two division titles since 2001 is pretty awful. With the franchise's all-time WS futility, I'd rather have the one World Series instead of 7 division titles and no ring, but they really should have been more successful.

 

Definitely. The Sox body of work since 2005 has been so depressing. I really thought the team was set up to dominate a division full of small market teams (til Detroit started spending finally). Am I the only one who thought the Sox were set up to win the division for many years after 2005?

At any rate, this has little to do with Paulie. It's not his fault.

[kitekrazy]

1. His comments and attitude over the years.

 

2. He was a ken Williams guy. And the reason that frank was ultimately pushed into a DH role.

 

3. Since he was a KW guy, he never lost his spot in the lineup in his atrocious 2003 season, despite the fact that frank was killing at 1b in inter league play that year.

 

4. He is beloved more for what he is/represents versus his actual accomplishments. The average sox fan is less critical of a bonerko than of a frank thomas.

 

5. He is the DP KING. He found amazing ways to hit into double plays. ALL THE TIME.

 

So did a lot of great hitters.

 

[kitekrazy]

Definitely. The Sox body of work since 2005 has been so depressing. I really thought the team was set up to dominate a division full of small market teams (til Detroit started spending finally). Am I the only one who thought the Sox were set up to win the division for many years after 2005?

At any rate, this has little to do with Paulie. It's not his fault.

 

The farm system sucks (I wonder if that will change under Hahn) so your existence of winning can be short lived unless you are willing to fork out East Coast money.

 

[Balta1701]

Definitely. The Sox body of work since 2005 has been so depressing. I really thought the team was set up to dominate a division full of small market teams (til Detroit started spending finally). Am I the only one who thought the Sox were set up to win the division for many years after 2005?

At any rate, this has little to do with Paulie. It's not his fault.

Yeah, it's not Paulie's fault. He wasn't on the team after 2005.

[greg775]

The farm system sucks (I wonder if that will change under Hahn) so your existence of winning can be short lived unless you are willing to fork out East Coast money.

 

I wish those outfielders the Sox drafted high in the various drafts were doing better. The Sox lack of developing good hitting outfielders is hurting them badly.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

What's next, we will bring back Juan Uribe and Neal Cotts?

Juan Uribe will rule the world after the Sox bring him back.

[caulfield12]

Juan Uribe will rule the world after the Sox bring him back.

 

 

He will go back to being a carbon copy of Viciedo (with us), whiffing on outside breaking pitches/sliders, hitting around .240ish but AT LEAST getting some clutch RBI's and consistently driving in the runner from 3rd with less than 2 outs.

 

I don't know what happened, in 2004 he was a really good hitter the first two or three months...just a lucky streak (compared to the rest of his time in a Sox uniform offensively), since it didn't last.

 

He actually has been a lot better with the Giants and Dodgers...although he also went through a terrible spell for awhile where he almost was out of baseball.

 

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

Definitely. The Sox body of work since 2005 has been so depressing. I really thought the team was set up to dominate a division full of small market teams (til Detroit started spending finally). Am I the only one who thought the Sox were set up to win the division for many years after 2005?

At any rate, this has little to do with Paulie. It's not his fault.

 

Thanks for proving my point.

[witesoxfan]

Wow, tough grader.

Bad for 2.5 years? Are you counting this year? This year he's not being given a fair chance. He's actually still a decent player in my book. He's still the best at scooping throws. Until the last 20 or so at bats was around .250. I won't go on my diatribe about Mr. 44 RBI Adam Dunn, but Paul Konerko is the LEAST of the Sox problems the past several years IMO.

I can't understand why Sox fans aren't showing him total love like Yankee fans with Jeter. This guy won us a world series. Let me ask you. What do you think the odds are of the Sox ever winning another one in your lifetime? I'd say the odds are about 50-1. Jerry isn't going to win another one. It will be a matter of who gets the team and if it's Jerry's relative, the odds remain at best 50-1 in your lifetime IMO. If it's somebody like Cuban with money money money the odds will improve. Thank u Paul Konerko!

 

Paul Konerko has been bad for 2 and a half years. It takes a couple clicks on his profile on any statistics site to see that.

 

This year he's done exactly what he wanted to do. He did not want to come back and be a full time player. He would not have signed. And, given that he's been effective against LHP, he's done exactly what's been asked of him. He's been one of the worst 1B in the game against RHP for the last 2 years because he can't catch up to the heat any more.

 

People have no problem with Konerko, because he's been a great hitter for the better part of his career, but he's no where near Jeter's level. He also didn't win the Sox a World Series, the team won a World Series and he was apart of that.

 

Given that I figure I'll be around another 40-50 years, and that there is competence in the front office and they are willing to spend money, I'd say the odds are right around 50% (or 2-1 odds) that the Sox will win another World Series in my life time. I don't understand the need to take a shot at Reinsdorf here, who has spent appropriately on this team for the better part of his membership on the board for the Chicago White Sox, but it depends on how much longer you are going to be alive. If you are in your 40s or 50s, the odds decrease signficantly unless you can live until you're 90 or 100.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Typical Greg posts. Gives Konerko all the credit for the 2005 World Series, but none of the blame for the Sox failing many other times.

[Eminor3rd]

Why are we getting so worked up over this? It doesn't matter. His presence on the team has neither helped nor hurt our chances of winning this year.

 

What should we have done with the roster spot? Parked Marcus Semien on the bench?

[witesoxfan]

Why are we getting so worked up over this? It doesn't matter. His presence on the team has neither helped nor hurt our chances of winning this year.

 

What should we have done with the roster spot? Parked Marcus Semien on the bench?

 

Signed Willie Bloomquist to put the team over the top.

[Chisoxfn]

"Amongst the league leaders" = 8th out of 28 guys with that many PA's. He's at the 75th percentile. The 75th percentile for batting average, for example, is hitting .278.

 

That's decent but the language is being stretched to compliment him.

Better then 3/4th's of the league's pinch hitters. Yeah, I'm the one stretching things. In what world is that a negative from the description I gave of him being amongst the leagues best pinch hitters.

[Chisoxfn]

Why can't there be an in-between ground between lionizing him as a veritable deity like one particular poster in this thread and "not being a fan of him and his career"?

 

He shouldn't be on this team this year and he's been in the way for the last 2.5 years. As much as anyone, his falling apart with the bat in 2012 was absolutely key to that team missing the playoffs, and he's been paid a lot for the privilege. He had a couple rough years early in his career, had a great peak, was a key to both the 05 and 08 playoff runs, but in hindsight the White Sox would have been better off not signing him to either of his last 2 contracts.

Sox aren't in that race if he isn't hitting .400. His bat falling apart, how about him being injured. Guy is one of the greatest White Sox of all time and was a consistently above average player for this franchise for a long long time. Nothing he has done this year has impacted the Sox ability to win...nothing. In fact, he has been a valuable pinch hitter and your bias comes through where you dispell that by acting as if the stats which back him as being above average actually make him not so good.

[caulfield12]

Paul Konerko has been bad for 2 and a half years. It takes a couple clicks on his profile on any statistics site to see that.

 

This year he's done exactly what he wanted to do. He did not want to come back and be a full time player. He would not have signed. And, given that he's been effective against LHP, he's done exactly what's been asked of him. He's been one of the worst 1B in the game against RHP for the last 2 years because he can't catch up to the heat any more.

 

People have no problem with Konerko, because he's been a great hitter for the better part of his career, but he's no where near Jeter's level. He also didn't win the Sox a World Series, the team won a World Series and he was apart of that.

 

Given that I figure I'll be around another 40-50 years, and that there is competence in the front office and they are willing to spend money, I'd say the odds are right around 50% (or 2-1 odds) that the Sox will win another World Series in my life time. I don't understand the need to take a shot at Reinsdorf here, who has spent appropriately on this team for the better part of his membership on the board for the Chicago White Sox, but it depends on how much longer you are going to be alive. If you are in your 40s or 50s, the odds decrease signficantly unless you can live until you're 90 or 100.

 

 

He's not Mark Cuban, he's not Ilitch, he doesn't spend insane amounts of his own personal money on a title quest. That's the argument, we don't have a free spender (Of course, the odds are looking worse and worse by the day as far as the Tigers getting back to the World Series again this year.)

 

Maybe we can hire Gregg Popovich to improve our international scouting/development after he's finished, as Jerry Krause working as a White Sox scout didn't last very long.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Can we actually give Konerko some love for his career and what he did for the 15 years he was here, instead of focusing all on the negatives of the last couple of seasons.

[witesoxfan]

He's not Mark Cuban, he's not Ilitch, he doesn't spend insane amounts of his own personal money on a title quest. That's the argument, we don't have a free spender (Of course, the odds are looking worse and worse by the day as far as the Tigers getting back to the World Series again this year.)

 

Maybe we can hire Gregg Popovich to improve our international scouting/development after he's finished, as Jerry Krause working as a White Sox scout didn't last very long.

 

So because the White Sox have a rational and fiscally responsible ownership group, Sox fans should be upset? What a travesty.

 

You don't have to spend $150-175 million to win in today's environment. You win by building your team up from within and making smart acquisitions and then adding pieces to that core group of players.

[caulfield12]

Sox aren't in that race if he isn't hitting .400. His bat falling apart, how about him being injured. Guy is one of the greatest White Sox of all time and was a consistently above average player for this franchise for a long long time. Nothing he has done this year has impacted the Sox ability to win...nothing. In fact, he has been a valuable pinch hitter and your bias comes through where you dispell that by acting as if the stats which back him as being above average actually make him not so good.

 

Which leads to the arguments about his not running out ground balls or doing bat flips, etc.

 

Let's go back to 15 or so years ago, when he supposedly had a degenerative hip condition and was fated to end up like a Joe Crede, out of baseball by age 30.

 

He's never going to be Mike Trout, he can't run...he doesn't have a lot of range at 1B, he's losing his hair, etc. JOKING. At any rate, he's been one of the best ambassadors in baseball for his team, so I don't have any problem with him. He's never been my favorite, either, but I guess the best word is appreciate him and everything he's accomplished for the franchise.

 

Paulie also doesn't seem like one of those guys (ala Gabe Kapler) who spend their entire offseason working on weights/health/nutrition. He's more from that Mark Buehrle, Thome or AJ old-school way of thinking. Would he be sitting on edge of the Hall of Fame if he took better care of himself, or could run 25% faster? Maybe, but probably not.

 

I guess the other thing to consider is that he's not a "rah rah" Bobby Valentine type. He has always been a "quiet/lead by example" type, and that's led in the minds of some to complacent clubhouses...along with others who have similar personalities, Thome, Dunn, Dye, etc.

 

We really do seem to have a leadership issue on this team if Adam Eaton can't stay on the field and Gordon Beckham obviously never came close to fulfilling that potential/label from 2009. Abreu and Chris Sale...not sure they are the ones, either. It seems we do need a veteran or two (position players) added into the mix who will bring our young players to that next level...a Mike Napoli, Dustin Pedroia, David Ortiz, their equivalent (and not easy to find), Chase Utley, Cole Hamels, Cliff Lee, Tim Hudson, etc.

 

 

[caulfield12]

So because the White Sox have a rational and fiscally responsible ownership group, Sox fans should be upset? What a travesty.

 

You don't have to spend $150-175 million to win in today's environment. You win by building your team up from within and making smart acquisitions and then adding pieces to that core group of players.

 

 

I'm mostly responding to Greg's comments, without doing it directly.

 

It seems he also feels the same way about the Glass family in Kansas City, since they've always been despised as owners because of their connection or association with the cost-cutting, profit-driven, anti-union Wal-Mart.

 

There aren't very many owners like Ilitch, Cuban or Ewing Kauffman left...that's for sure. Steinbrenner's gone. The Red Sox seem TOO rational these days, tearing their championship club apart. The Cubs always cry poor. Maybe only the Dodgers, Angels and Giants to a lesser extent run their franchises like we would love to see in Chicago, or maybe the Cardinals. Of course, the reality of their situations and the one facing Hahn/Reinsdorf are completely different.

Edited August 11, 2014 by caulfield12

[Chisoxfn]

Can we actually give Konerko some love for his career and what he did for the 15 years he was here, instead of focusing all on the negatives of the last couple of seasons.

It doesn't seem people can. Really sad. Guy was incredible and gave it his all for the Sox. Heck, he really only had one bad year, which was last year (yes he had a bad 2nd half the year before but that was after a legendary first half). This year can't possibly be defined as bad, not given the role that he has been placed in. He basically had 2 bad full seasons in his entire career with the Sox.

[Chisoxfn]

Which leads to the arguments about his not running out ground balls or doing bat flips, etc.

 

Let's go back to 15 or so years ago, when he supposedly had a degenerative hip condition and was fated to end up like a Joe Crede, out of baseball by age 30.

 

He's never going to be Mike Trout, he can't run...he doesn't have a lot of range at 1B, he's losing his hair, etc. JOKING. At any rate, he's been one of the best ambassadors in baseball for his team, so I don't have any problem with him. He's never been my favorite, either, but I guess the best word is appreciate him and everything he's accomplished for the franchise.

 

Paulie also doesn't seem like one of those guys (ala Gabe Kapler) who spend their entire offseason working on weights/health/nutrition. He's more from that Mark Buehrle, Thome or AJ old-school way of thinking. Would he be sitting on edge of the Hall of Fame if he took better care of himself, or could run 25% faster? Maybe, but probably not.

 

I guess the other thing to consider is that he's not a "rah rah" Bobby Valentine type. He has always been a "quiet/lead by example" type, and that's led in the minds of some to complacent clubhouses...along with others who have similar personalities, Thome, Dunn, Dye, etc.

 

We really do seem to have a leadership issue on this team if Adam Eaton can't stay on the field and Gordon Beckham obviously never came close to fulfilling that potential/label from 2009. Abreu and Chris Sale...not sure they are the ones, either. It seems we do need a veteran or two (position players) added into the mix who will bring our young players to that next level...a Mike Napoli, Dustin Pedroia, David Ortiz, their equivalent (and not easy to find), Chase Utley, Cole Hamels, Cliff Lee, Tim Hudson, etc.

I have no idea where you get that about Paulie. He's supposed to be the most intense guy in the lockeroom and has always been in good shape and always seems like a hard worker.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I like Konerko as much as the next guy, but I think a lot of Sox fans are blinded by their Sox homerism. Throughout Konerko's career he's been a slightly above average first basemen who has put up some decent counting stats because he has had a fairly long and healthy career. He's not a HOFer like some think, he's not a MLB legend (Sox legend, sure). At one point on this site there was even a discussion about who would people take in their prime, Frank Thomas or Paul Konerko? I mean come on.

[southsider2k5]

I like Konerko as much as the next guy, but I think a lot of Sox fans are blinded by their Sox homerism. Throughout Konerko's career he's been a slightly above average first basemen who has put up some decent counting stats because he has had a fairly long and healthy career. He's not a HOFer like some think, he's not a MLB legend (Sox legend, sure). At one point on this site there was even a discussion about who would people take in their prime, Frank Thomas or Paul Konerko? I mean come on.

 

I don't remember this at all.

[ptatc]

Which leads to the arguments about his not running out ground balls or doing bat flips, etc.

 

Let's go back to 15 or so years ago, when he supposedly had a degenerative hip condition and was fated to end up like a Joe Crede, out of baseball by age 30.

 

He's never going to be Mike Trout, he can't run...he doesn't have a lot of range at 1B, he's losing his hair, etc. JOKING. At any rate, he's been one of the best ambassadors in baseball for his team, so I don't have any problem with him. He's never been my favorite, either, but I guess the best word is appreciate him and everything he's accomplished for the franchise.

 

Paulie also doesn't seem like one of those guys (ala Gabe Kapler) who spend their entire offseason working on weights/health/nutrition. He's more from that Mark Buehrle, Thome or AJ old-school way of thinking. Would he be sitting on edge of the Hall of Fame if he took better care of himself, or could run 25% faster? Maybe, but probably not.

This could not be further from the truth. With his degenerative hip condition he has had to work harder than most other players just to play this long. His off season work is second to none.