Vance Law Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Look at McCarthy's last 2 seasons. He is basically Hector Noesi (2014 White Sox version) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (Vance Law @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 02:04 PM) Look at McCarthy's last 2 seasons. He is basically Hector Noesi (2014 White Sox version) The ERA is the same... the peripherals couldn't be more different. McCarthy has one of the lowest BB rates and highest GB rates in baseball in those two years. When he's on the mound, he's a better pitcher than Noesi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 02:01 PM) I love Brandon McCarthy, but signing him and depending on him is just stupid. I am fully convinced that the Sox saw a flaw in his motion, which is why they dealt him so quickly. I very seriously doubt they want him back. You are correct. I remember reading a few articles before the BMac/Danks trade that the Sox tried to get BMac to change his arm slot because the Sox didn't like his straight over the top delivery. They said it is a very unnatural motion for the shoulder. The Sox were not happy with Brandon refusing to change the arm slot, so we all know what happened next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:16 PM) The ERA is the same... the peripherals couldn't be more different. McCarthy has one of the lowest BB rates and highest GB rates in baseball in those two years. When he's on the mound, he's a better pitcher than Noesi. Yes, lower walk rate, but he leads MLB in giving up hits this year. So his WHIP is right up there. McCarthy may be a better pitcher (or maybe Noesi takes another step forward) but by how much? And even if he is a little better, it's not enough to guarantee better results (see 2013 - 2014). Noesi costs nothing, what is McCarthy going to get on the FA market? If Danks is unmovable, and the Sox expect Rodon up at some point next year and you're ultimately replacing Noesi with someone like Mccarthy, it doesn't seem the cost is worth the (possible) minimal upgrade. Now if they are willing to cut ties with Danks or put him in the bullpen at some point, that's another story. But I'd say if they're going after a FA pitcher next year, I'd hope they go for someone higher up the food chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:00 PM) The Sox should offer McCarthy the job of play-by-play on the road. Stone and McCarthy could just talk about curveballs for days. I would kill to hear Bmac and Hawk. Hawk would retire within a week, but it would be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (Vance Law @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:00 PM) Yes, lower walk rate, but he leads MLB in giving up hits this year. So his WHIP is right up there. McCarthy may be a better pitcher (or maybe Noesi takes another step forward) but by how much? And even if he is a little better, it's not enough to guarantee better results (see 2013 - 2014). Noesi costs nothing, what is McCarthy going to get on the FA market? If Danks is unmovable, and the Sox expect Rodon up at some point next year and you're ultimately replacing Noesi with someone like Mccarthy, it doesn't seem the cost is worth the (possible) minimal upgrade. Now if they are willing to cut ties with Danks or put him in the bullpen at some point, that's another story. But I'd say if they're going after a FA pitcher next year, I'd hope they go for someone higher up the food chain. If everything else is equal you're probably happier with 4 guys + McCarthy than with 4 guys + Noesi. No guarantees of course. McCarthy has turned into an extreme ground ball pitcher, which plays better in our park, and his peak is undoubtedly higher. I'm not really even advocating we sign McCarthy. I will say that to me, keeping Hector Noesi in the rotation is a suspect reason not to sign Free Agent Pitcher X. Noesi's been a nice player to have this year and has surpassed all expectations, but this might be the best he ever pitches. The Danks thing is more complicated. I know everyone wants him gone, but then you're essentially paying McCarthy-or-whoever $26M a year instead of $13M a year because you had to dump Danks' deal. We'd need some serious trade wizardry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:19 PM) If everything else is equal you're probably happier with 4 guys + McCarthy than with 4 guys + Noesi. No guarantees of course. McCarthy has turned into an extreme ground ball pitcher, which plays better in our park, and his peak is undoubtedly higher. I'm not really even advocating we sign McCarthy. I will say that to me, keeping Hector Noesi in the rotation is a suspect reason not to sign Free Agent Pitcher X. Noesi's been a nice player to have this year and has surpassed all expectations, but this might be the best he ever pitches. The Danks thing is more complicated. I know everyone wants him gone, but then you're essentially paying McCarthy-or-whoever $26M a year instead of $13M a year because you had to dump Danks' deal. We'd need some serious trade wizardry. It isn't just McCarthy + 4 guys. It is 4 guys, half a season of Bmac, and half a season of Scott Carroll, Andre Rienzo, or some other AAA pitcher. In that case, Noesi is a better idea. He won't outpitching McCarthy while Brandon pitches, but Brandon is a lock to miss a chunk of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 2, 2014 -> 05:17 AM) If I were Rick Hahn, I would seriously consider trading Jose Quintana for a package of young prospects. While I do think Quintana has been a bright spot for the team and one of the best pickups the Sox have done in years, however I think he reached the ceiling of his prime and will never pitch better than he is pitching right now. You are suggesting actively making the starting rotation a lot worse next year. This would succeed in pushing back even further into the future the point at which this team is competitive. You are suggesting we actively choose to make more years of Chris Sale's ace-level performance to be worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shysocks Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:26 PM) It isn't just McCarthy + 4 guys. It is 4 guys, half a season of Bmac, and half a season of Scott Carroll, Andre Rienzo, or some other AAA pitcher. In that case, Noesi is a better idea. He won't outpitching McCarthy while Brandon pitches, but Brandon is a lock to miss a chunk of the season. "Lock" might be a strong word, considering he's stayed healthy this season. But this'll be the first time he's ever made 30 starts. His spiking ground ball rate and changing pitch mix (a lot more fastball + curveball than in recent year) certainly look like a conscious approach change. For the record, I'd look elsewhere for help too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (shysocks @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 03:40 PM) "Lock" might be a strong word, considering he's stayed healthy this season. But this'll be the first time he's ever made 30 starts. His spiking ground ball rate and changing pitch mix (a lot more fastball + curveball than in recent year) certainly look like a conscious approach change. For the record, I'd look elsewhere for help too. In his 7 full seasons as a major leaguer and starting pitcher, he has just over 800 IP. His previous highs were 25 starts and 170 IP. Even if he has been healthy this year, his numbers the last two seasons are way down. Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 I miss BMac posting here. Ah those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Jeff Samardzjia on signing with the White Sox or Cubs after 2015: "There will definitely be communication when the time comes." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien 33s What does Samardzjia think about joining a pitching staff with Chris Sale? "That's not a bad start there for sure." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 05:48 PM) Chuck Garfien @ChuckGarfien 33s What does Samardzjia think about joining a pitching staff with Chris Sale? "That's not a bad start there for sure." It will never happen, but dayum that would be just f'ning nasty. Throw Rodon in at #3 and Q at #4? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 06:45 PM) It will never happen, but dayum that would be just f'ning nasty. Throw Rodon in at #3 and Q at #4? Wow. I'd be down with Shark if the price was right. Sale - Samardzija - Rodon - Quintana - Danish/Montas/Adams would make me quite happy. Use the other two arms as trade bait. Plus, didn't Samardzija grow up a Sox fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 02:57 PM) You are correct. I remember reading a few articles before the BMac/Danks trade that the Sox tried to get BMac to change his arm slot because the Sox didn't like his straight over the top delivery. They said it is a very unnatural motion for the shoulder. The Sox were not happy with Brandon refusing to change the arm slot, so we all know what happened next. The Sox tried signing him2 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 06:48 PM) I'd be down with Shark if the price was right. Sale - Samardzija - Rodon - Quintana - Danish/Montas/Adams would make me quite happy. Use the other two arms as trade bait. Plus, didn't Samardzija grow up a Sox fan? If he keeps going at this rate, he will be WAY out of the Sox shopping range. I would say you'd have to be looking at the 100-$150 million range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Hahn really danced around a question asking about Viciedo's 2015 status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 06:50 PM) If he keeps going at this rate, he will be WAY out of the Sox shopping range. I would say you'd have to be looking at the 100-$150 million range. Only way I'd see it happening is if the Sox see him as THE final piece to go for it. Then Jerry MIGHT open the checkbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 05:58 PM) Only way I'd see it happening is if the Sox see him as THE final piece to go for it. Then Jerry MIGHT open the checkbook. Even then, it's doubtful. When you start talking about long-term deals for pitchers around the age of 30 that have NEVER had TJ surgery yet, you're rolling the dice. Shields would be the prime example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 06:58 PM) Only way I'd see it happening is if the Sox see him as THE final piece to go for it. Then Jerry MIGHT open the checkbook. Sounds about right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 06:54 PM) Hahn really danced around a question asking about Viciedo's 2015 status. It is super obvious that Dayan won't be on the South Side next year, except as a visitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 06:48 PM) Plus, didn't Samardzija grow up a Sox fan? Yes he did. One of the rare Valparaiso guys I actually like cause of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 07:03 PM) Even then, it's doubtful. When you start talking about long-term deals for pitchers around the age of 30 that have NEVER had TJ surgery yet, you're rolling the dice. Shields would be the prime example. Even then, if Herm and Coop give a stamp of approval, I'm game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 QUOTE (SoxAce @ Sep 8, 2014 -> 07:14 PM) Yes he did. One of the rare Valparaiso guys I actually like cause of that. Valpo+ND+Cubs=puke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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