Vince Coleman has Sox itching to step on gas

[Balta1701]

Technique can be taught, but if you are really going to steal a ton of bases, you have natural speed, some natural instinct, and you have to be pretty tough with a high pain tolerance. Guys that steal a lot get pretty beat up. Vince Coleman's pointers aren't going to make Adam Eaton a 75 SB guy. They can help for sure. Rickey Henderson was every bit of a freak as a baserunner as Nolan Ryan was as a pitcher.

That's the thing I keep finding amazing about these 100 steal guys...how in the world did they stay healthy for multiple seasons?

[LittleHurt05]

That's the thing I keep finding amazing about these 100 steal guys...how in the world did they stay healthy for multiple seasons?

 

Drugs? Painkillers?

[LDF]

That's the thing I keep finding amazing about these 100 steal guys...how in the world did they stay healthy for multiple seasons?

 

i am feeling my age, but do you ever think mlb will see that kind of a player who will do that again.

[LDF]

Technique can be taught, but if you are really going to steal a ton of bases, you have natural speed, some natural instinct, and you have to be pretty tough with a high pain tolerance. Guys that steal a lot get pretty beat up. Vince Coleman's pointers aren't going to make Adam Eaton a 75 SB guy. They can help for sure. Rickey Henderson was every bit of a freak as a baserunner as Nolan Ryan was as a pitcher.

 

i know, the body takes a huge beating, and with the dogs days of summer, (Aug) those players really need to be in shape.

 

what i try to compare, is the players of yesteryear, what we, as fans takes for granted.

[Balta1701]

i am feeling my age, but do you ever think mlb will see that kind of a player who will do that again.

I have no idea what has changed. Have pitchers/catchers gotten better at holding players on? I doubt that. Vince Coleman stole at like an 85% clip during his first 3 years when he was stealing 100+, so even the craziest sabermetric person would say "run like crazy" to a player who's succeeding at that rate.

 

The only thing I can guess that might have changed is that the 100+ steal guys were all on steroids or some other drugs. Maybe something became available in the late 70s/early 80s that really worked to keep those guys bodies from falling apart?

[witesoxfan]

I have no idea what has changed. Have pitchers/catchers gotten better at holding players on? I doubt that. Vince Coleman stole at like an 85% clip during his first 3 years when he was stealing 100+, so even the craziest sabermetric person would say "run like crazy" to a player who's succeeding at that rate.

 

The only thing I can guess that might have changed is that the 100+ steal guys were all on steroids or some other drugs. Maybe something became available in the late 70s/early 80s that really worked to keep those guys bodies from falling apart?

 

There could have been a little *something* that was putting a little pep in their step too.

[LDF]

I have no idea what has changed. Have pitchers/catchers gotten better at holding players on? I doubt that. Vince Coleman stole at like an 85% clip during his first 3 years when he was stealing 100+, so even the craziest sabermetric person would say "run like crazy" to a player who's succeeding at that rate.

 

The only thing I can guess that might have changed is that the 100+ steal guys were all on steroids or some other drugs. Maybe something became available in the late 70s/early 80s that really worked to keep those guys bodies from falling apart?

 

i don't know, the game is changing and becoming more specialize. the catchers are being coach differently, the pitchers are becoming more aware, the idea of studying the opponents more and yes, and i will laugh this off, drug testing.

[Balta1701]

There could have been a little *something* that was putting a little pep in their step too.

Going for the amphetamines?

[LDF]

There could have been a little *something* that was putting a little pep in their step too.

 

do you mean other than good coaching?? well i never....

[witesoxfan]

Going for the amphetamines?

 

and/or cocaine.

[LittleHurt05]

I have no idea what has changed. Have pitchers/catchers gotten better at holding players on? I doubt that. Vince Coleman stole at like an 85% clip during his first 3 years when he was stealing 100+, so even the craziest sabermetric person would say "run like crazy" to a player who's succeeding at that rate.

 

The only thing I can guess that might have changed is that the 100+ steal guys were all on steroids or some other drugs. Maybe something became available in the late 70s/early 80s that really worked to keep those guys bodies from falling apart?

 

How much has the average pitch speed increased? I know guys are throwing harder nowadays. My math might be off, but 1 MPH difference could cut .02 or .03 of a second off the time to the plate. Every little bit makes the difference.

[Kyyle23]

He is on the score right now, really good stuff. He is very much into analyzing pitchers and their tells, and he thinks Eaton is gonna be the goods

[bmags]

He is on the score right now, really good stuff. He is very much into analyzing pitchers and their tells, and he thinks Eaton is gonna be the goods

 

Hayes sounds like this guy is keeping camp interesting for media. Which is good, since Coop was really holding down the fort there.

[flavum]

He is on the score right now, really good stuff. He is very much into analyzing pitchers and their tells, and he thinks Eaton is gonna be the goods

 

Sounds like a good hire by Kenny. Their kids went to school together in Scottsdale.

[asindc]

I have no idea what has changed. Have pitchers/catchers gotten better at holding players on? I doubt that. Vince Coleman stole at like an 85% clip during his first 3 years when he was stealing 100+, so even the craziest sabermetric person would say "run like crazy" to a player who's succeeding at that rate.

 

The only thing I can guess that might have changed is that the 100+ steal guys were all on steroids or some other drugs. Maybe something became available in the late 70s/early 80s that really worked to keep those guys bodies from falling apart?

 

I think the emphasis on power numbers has caused a de-emphasis on the speed aspects of the game, and I'm not just referring to base stealing here. Even taking extra bases is sometimes discouraged with the idea that the team is better off with a slugger's chance of driving in the run(s). I can't speculate on how well current players would hold up trying more than 100 steal attempts in a season because no one currently even tries it.

[LDF]

I think the emphasis on power numbers has caused a de-emphasis on the speed aspects of the game, and I'm not just referring to base stealing here. Even taking extra bases is sometimes discouraged with the idea that the team is better off with a slugger's chance of driving in the run(s). I can't speculate on how well current players would hold up trying more than 100 steal attempts in a season because no one currently even tries it.

 

let me ask this. i can see how a runner may not want to the runner to take that extra base, when you may have hitter like Jose A, melky, adam coming up.

 

that is the whole point of my question, should there be a review of strategy going into this season?

[caulfield12]

Pods' body really wore down near the end and he had to remodel his game quite a bit.

 

He didn't have 100 steals, but he came close a time or two...especially his minor league wear and tear caught up with him.

[asindc]

let me ask this. i can see how a runner may not want to the runner to take that extra base, when you may have hitter like Jose A, melky, adam coming up.

 

that is the whole point of my question, should there be a review of strategy going into this season?

 

I think so. As a fan of the Sox, I would love to see the Sox adopt a more proactive approach to baserunning. The general approach to baserunning around baseball has become more passive in the last 20 years or so, especially more emphasis on advanced stats that seem skewed towards power hitting. An example of something that really needs to be improved upon IMO is sending a running home with 2 outs. Obviously, no one is sending Paulie unless the ball is on the warning track, but most guys can go for it. Otherwise, if the runner is held up on 3rd with 2 outs there is less than a 40% chance he will score. I would like to see some statistic analysis that addresses my hunch, which is that I think the average runner has a better than 40% chance of scoring if sent.

Edited February 27, 2015 by asindc

[shakes]

I think the emphasis on power numbers has caused a de-emphasis on the speed aspects of the game, and I'm not just referring to base stealing here. Even taking extra bases is sometimes discouraged with the idea that the team is better off with a slugger's chance of driving in the run(s). I can't speculate on how well current players would hold up trying more than 100 steal attempts in a season because no one currently even tries it.

 

I think this is the biggest reason.

 

Raines, Coleman, and Rickey Henderson were outliers even for their time. The astro turf helped in their day, as well. Henderson was the true freak as he was able to keep his SB numbers up his entire career. Raines and Coleman tapered off a bit after about 5 years each. I imagine it was just to hard physically to keep that many attempts up.

[LDF]

I think so. As a fan of the Sox, I would love to see the Sox adopt a more proactive approach to baserunning. The general approach to baserunning around baseball has become more passive in the last 20 years or so, especially more emphasis on advanced stats that seem skewed towards power hitting. An example of something that really needs to be improved upon IMO is sending a running home with 2 outs. Obviously, no one is sending Paulie unless the ball is on the warning track, but most guys can go for it. Otherwise, if the runner is held up on 3rd with 2 outs there is less than a 40% chance he will score. I would like to see some statistic analysis that addresses my hunch, which is that I think the average runner has a better than 40% chance of scoring if sent.

 

therein lies the problem i am having. you are advocating send a runner home with 2 outs, from 3rd. but would you do it when the heart of the batting order was coming up???

 

remember there is right or wrong answer i just trying to figure this out with the great hitters the sox may have in the lineup. old school vs new school.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

there is a way to reply without belittling. that was the point that got to me. do not post as you are superior. btw, reread your post and see how you made this as an argumentative thread. btw i am not crying, it is you who can't stand be proven wrong. you are really petty during this whole rant.

 

 

btw, the other part of my post was about the idea of being too aggressive when the sox have some of the best talent coming up behind eaton.

[chitownsportsfan]

I think so. As a fan of the Sox, I would love to see the Sox adopt a more proactive approach to baserunning. The general approach to baserunning around baseball has become more passive in the last 20 years or so, especially more emphasis on advanced stats that seem skewed towards power hitting. An example of something that really needs to be improved upon IMO is sending a running home with 2 outs. Obviously, no one is sending Paulie unless the ball is on the warning track, but most guys can go for it. Otherwise, if the runner is held up on 3rd with 2 outs there is less than a 40% chance he will score. I would like to see some statistic analysis that addresses my hunch, which is that I think the average runner has a better than 40% chance of scoring if sent.

 

I like your style keep posting. And I agree on your point. With 2 outs, I'm sending most guys, most of the time. Even with a great hitter like Jose up next the odds he gets him in or a wild pitch aren't better than 50%.

[caulfield12]

I like your style keep posting. And I agree on your point. With 2 outs, I'm sending most guys, most of the time. Even with a great hitter like Jose up next the odds he gets him in or a wild pitch aren't better than 50%.

 

Except for the final out of the World Series...when the runner's going to be out by 20-40 feet.

[Jake]

I think baseball has gotten better at understanding the value of SBs. For instance, it is so rarely worth it to steal 3B even if you are going to have a high success rate. Nowadays, guys just aren't trying for that second SB.

[RockRaines]

Lip service. I expect improved technique but not overall more attempts.