Irreconcilable Differences

[Southwest Sider]

The way forward is quitting, at least according this thread.

 

We'll see you all when the bandwagon fills up again.

 

I know I'm not quitting anything. I'm still excited about this years White Sox team, even though they've only been exciting for a 1 week period against bad teams. I still think they can put it together, and another 6 or more game win streak and they are right back in this thing. This homestand has been depressing, for sure, but there's still a lot of baseball left and even if this year doesn't go as planned, there's still a decent foundation of good players to hopefully turn it around next season.

 

 

[Thad Bosley]

The way forward is quitting, at least according this thread.

 

We'll see you all when the bandwagon fills up again.

I look forward to the day when the bandwagon fills up again! Are you kidding me? That means we are WINNING once again. That is the goal, in case you've forgotten. Every team has it's bandwagon fans. Who the F cares as long as the team is winning. Geez, why is that so hard for you to understand!

[kitekrazy]

I look forward to the day when the bandwagon fills up again! Are you kidding me? That means we are WINNING once again. That is the goal, in case you've forgotten. Every team has it's bandwagon fans. Who the F cares as long as the team is winning. Geez, why is that so hard for you to understand!

 

Some people have this fantasy that there are trophies for certain types of fans. When you go buy a ticket they don't care what type of fan you are.

 

 

 

[Quin]

There are over 100 games left.

 

The current performance is cause for concern, not cause for abandoning all hope and burning it all down.

[greg775]

Some people have this fantasy that there are trophies for certain types of fans. When you go buy a ticket they don't care what type of fan you are.

I have changed. The Sox won it in 05 and I stayed loyal to those players through thick and thin. I was suspended twice for arguments in which I backed guys like Bobby Jenks, Ozzie, Jermaine Dye, etc. Now none of those players remain so I am a bitter mean "show me the product" fan now. There are no current players I feel the need to defend cause they haven't done squat yet. Just win baby and shut fans like Greg up.

Edited May 25, 2015 by greg775

[Jerksticks]

I'm a loyal fan but sure as s*** ain't proud of it. It's just what I am- I root for the Sox. Anybody else that likes the Sox, sweet! Pride in sports fandom is something we all grow out of as we age as men. "NO I'm a better fan!" Lol.

[caulfield12]

http://www.coolstandings.com/comebacks.asp?i=1

 

White Sox teams in 1906, 1983 and 1959 among the top 100 greatest comebacks of all-time.

 

 

On the other hand, a last-place White Sox team on Memorial Day or June 1st has never come back to earn a playoff spot.

Edited May 25, 2015 by caulfield12

[spiderman]

http://www.coolstandings.com/comebacks.asp?i=1

 

White Sox teams in 1906, 1983 and 1959 among the top 100 greatest comebacks of all-time.

 

 

On the other hand, a last-place White Sox team on Memorial Day or June 1st has never come back to earn a playoff spot.

 

This year looks to be no different. 8 games behind two very good teams and another surprise team in the Twins.

 

Another depressing year to be a White Sox fan.

 

After an off-season in which the team appeared to address many holes, they still have an offense that lacks impact.

[LittleHurt05]

http://www.coolstandings.com/comebacks.asp?i=1

 

White Sox teams in 1906, 1983 and 1959 among the top 100 greatest comebacks of all-time.

 

 

On the other hand, a last-place White Sox team on Memorial Day or June 1st has never come back to earn a playoff spot.

 

I love the internet, what a cool list.

[jamesdiego]

Damn. That 1906 team won 19 games in a row at one point. Think this 2015 team has that in em? Yea, any day now..

[greg775]

This year looks to be no different. 8 games behind two very good teams and another surprise team in the Twins.

 

Another depressing year to be a White Sox fan.

 

After an off-season in which the team appeared to address many holes, they still have an offense that lacks impact.

I can't believe how early the Sox are out of it again. School lets out and team is buried already.

[Quin]

I can't believe how early the Sox are out of it again. School lets out and team is buried already.

 

There are over 100 games left.

 

The current performance is cause for concern, not cause for abandoning all hope and burning it all down.

[southsider2k5]

I look forward to the day when the bandwagon fills up again! Are you kidding me? That means we are WINNING once again. That is the goal, in case you've forgotten. Every team has it's bandwagon fans. Who the F cares as long as the team is winning. Geez, why is that so hard for you to understand!

 

 

Some people have this fantasy that there are trophies for certain types of fans. When you go buy a ticket they don't care what type of fan you are.

 

I think the bigger problem is that some people think a baseball ticket entitles them to way more then it actually does. Baseball is a sport. It is entertainment. It is a game. It isn't some sort of place for people to get an ego fulfillment because their team owes it to them, or some weird 21st century entitlement idea. The ideas about stomping and pouting and demanding the team do this and that because they owe it to you, the fans, is just silly. I don't know when that idea came into sports, but people need to get over it. These aren't gladiators. This isn't life and death on the line. The whole idea that staying away and quitting somehow makes you better than people who don't, because the team isn't delivering something it apparently owes to you to get you to show up is just mindblowing to me. Even worse is taking to the internet in an effort to get some sort of cyber pat on the back because you are all sad because the team hasn't won enough for you. Baseball is not an entitlement program. It doesn't owe you a regular championship as if you get a trophy just for signing up as a fan. If you need that to feel good about yourself, sign up for another team.

[caulfield12]

I think the bigger problem is that some people think a baseball ticket entitles them to way more then it actually does. Baseball is a sport. It is entertainment. It is a game. It isn't some sort of place for people to get an ego fulfillment because their team owes it to them, or some weird 21st century entitlement idea. The ideas about stomping and pouting and demanding the team do this and that because they owe it to you, the fans, is just silly. I don't know when that idea came into sports, but people need to get over it. These aren't gladiators. This isn't life and death on the line. The whole idea that staying away and quitting somehow makes you better than people who don't, because the team isn't delivering something it apparently owes to you to get you to show up is just mindblowing to me. Even worse is taking to the internet in an effort to get some sort of cyber pat on the back because you are all sad because the team hasn't won enough for you. Baseball is not an entitlement program. It doesn't owe you a regular championship as if you get a trophy just for signing up as a fan. If you need that to feel good about yourself, sign up for another team.

 

 

You've just hit on it...for more and more fans, though, the cost benefit analysis comes out on the side of the cost not being worth the benefit.

 

That said, as has been mentioned over and over again, the cost is mitigated greatly by following in other ways, such as as MLB.TV, Gameday Audio, MILB.tv, Extra Innings, etc.

 

It has never been easier to be a fan...and there's never been more competition for your attention and discretionary entertainment dollars. It's of course one major reason attendance is down but fan information and "passion" is increasing correspondingly.

 

30 years ago, all you could get was a box score, and you had to do the statistics by yourself. That was assuming that it was an early score and you didn't have to wait for the afternoon or next day's newspaper.

Edited May 25, 2015 by caulfield12

[flavum]

I think the bigger problem is that some people think a baseball ticket entitles them to way more then it actually does. Baseball is a sport. It is entertainment. It is a game. It isn't some sort of place for people to get an ego fulfillment because their team owes it to them, or some weird 21st century entitlement idea. The ideas about stomping and pouting and demanding the team do this and that because they owe it to you, the fans, is just silly. I don't know when that idea came into sports, but people need to get over it. These aren't gladiators. This isn't life and death on the line. The whole idea that staying away and quitting somehow makes you better than people who don't, because the team isn't delivering something it apparently owes to you to get you to show up is just mindblowing to me. Even worse is taking to the internet in an effort to get some sort of cyber pat on the back because you are all sad because the team hasn't won enough for you. Baseball is not an entitlement program. It doesn't owe you a regular championship as if you get a trophy just for signing up as a fan. If you need that to feel good about yourself, sign up for another team.

 

It seems like you have being a fan down to - this is the team I like, this is the park I go to and enjoy, and I hope the Sox win, but if they don't, oh well, there's always tomorrow or next year.

 

And that's fine.

 

But if that's the way you consume White Sox baseball, without opinions or thoughts on how they could improve, why even post here? What's here for you that gives you joy other than telling other people what to think?

[caulfield12]

It seems like you have being a fan down to - this is the team I like, this is the park I go to and enjoy, and I hope the Sox win, but if they don't, oh well, there's always tomorrow or next year.

 

And that's fine.

 

But if that's the way you consume White Sox baseball, without opinions or thoughts on how they could improve, why even post here? What's here for you that gives you joy other than telling other people what to think?

 

 

Herein lies the rub with the current state of any message boards about sports, but baseball in particular.

 

1) Telling one how to think or "be a fan" or asserting one type of fandom is superior.

 

2) This constant back and forth between being overly optimistic, pragmatic/realistic and then pessimistic...and the shouting back and forth between the 1st and 3rd groups. It also goes in line with attacking the front office/Ventura or defending them, usually.

 

3) Perhaps the worst part of the boards over the last 2-3 years...the substitution for a boatload of statistics and numbers for reasoned analysis that combines the "eye test" and quantifiable support. Either throwing out opinions with no support and/or having endless arguments about what constitutes a reliable sample size to draw conclusions or make reliable judgments...or arguing about opinions, which USED to be fun back in the good 'ol days.

Edited May 25, 2015 by caulfield12

[Thad Bosley]

I think the bigger problem is that some people think a baseball ticket entitles them to way more then it actually does. Baseball is a sport. It is entertainment. It is a game. It isn't some sort of place for people to get an ego fulfillment because their team owes it to them, or some weird 21st century entitlement idea. The ideas about stomping and pouting and demanding the team do this and that because they owe it to you, the fans, is just silly. I don't know when that idea came into sports, but people need to get over it. These aren't gladiators. This isn't life and death on the line. The whole idea that staying away and quitting somehow makes you better than people who don't, because the team isn't delivering something it apparently owes to you to get you to show up is just mindblowing to me. Even worse is taking to the internet in an effort to get some sort of cyber pat on the back because you are all sad because the team hasn't won enough for you. Baseball is not an entitlement program. It doesn't owe you a regular championship as if you get a trophy just for signing up as a fan. If you need that to feel good about yourself, sign up for another team.

Since Jerry Reinsdorf took over the club in 1981, of the other 25 non-expansion teams in existence since then, only four of those teams (Royals, Mariners, Brewers, & Nationals) have been to the postseason fewer times than the Sox. And of those four, one team, the Royals, have made a World Series appearance more often than the Sox. If this record of futility doesn't bother you, if you are fine buying a ticket and getting the kind of quality we just saw during this last home stand, and in 2014, 2013, 2011, all the way through most of Reinsdorf's 35 years at the helm, well then fine - have at it. Buy a full season ticket package and get out there to the park and cheer on the mediocrity. But please don't be so crass and condescending with your completely unnecessary "cyber pat" comments when some of us legitimately look at the record of achievement of the ball club and, on a fan message board, suggest it should be better.

[Dick Allen]

Since Jerry Reinsdorf took over the club in 1981, of the other 25 non-expansion teams in existence since then, only four of those teams (Royals, Mariners, Brewers, & Nationals) have been to the postseason fewer times than the Sox. And of those four, one team, the Royals, have made a World Series appearance more often than the Sox. If this record of futility doesn't bother you, if you are fine buying a ticket and getting the kind of quality we just saw during this last home stand, and in 2014, 2013, 2011, all the way through most of Reinsdorf's 35 years at the helm, well then fine - have at it. Buy a full season ticket package and get out there to the park and cheer on the mediocrity. But please don't be so crass and condescending with your completely unnecessary "cyber pat" comments when some of us legitimately look at the record of achievement of the ball club and, on a fan message board, suggest it should be better.

You are the one who says the White Sox have had 1 exciting season over the last 35, so postseason appearances that don't result in winning a WS would be considered total failure and an unexciting season. Yet you use postseason non WS win appearance as positives for other teams.

 

It is too bad you have to wait until almost November to determine if a season was exciting or not. But since the last time the White Sox won the WS and had an exciting season according to your parameters, there are 24 teams that have had a just as worthless existance Baseball probably isn't for you.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Dick Allen

[greg775]

I think the bigger problem is that some people think a baseball ticket entitles them to way more then it actually does. Baseball is a sport. It is entertainment. It is a game. It isn't some sort of place for people to get an ego fulfillment because their team owes it to them, or some weird 21st century entitlement idea. The ideas about stomping and pouting and demanding the team do this and that because they owe it to you, the fans, is just silly. I don't know when that idea came into sports, but people need to get over it. These aren't gladiators. This isn't life and death on the line. The whole idea that staying away and quitting somehow makes you better than people who don't, because the team isn't delivering something it apparently owes to you to get you to show up is just mindblowing to me. Even worse is taking to the internet in an effort to get some sort of cyber pat on the back because you are all sad because the team hasn't won enough for you. Baseball is not an entitlement program. It doesn't owe you a regular championship as if you get a trophy just for signing up as a fan. If you need that to feel good about yourself, sign up for another team.

I don't get your point. We should love baseball because it's baseball? The greatest sport on earth? Well I'd argue that the umpires and players have tried to ruin that (pace of play is appalling and strike zone squeezing abominable). However back to my point. Baseball is big business and fans deserve a good product. The product the White Sox have been throwing out there for some time now is not the worst in the industry but very bad.

[southsider2k5]

It seems like you have being a fan down to - this is the team I like, this is the park I go to and enjoy, and I hope the Sox win, but if they don't, oh well, there's always tomorrow or next year.

 

And that's fine.

 

But if that's the way you consume White Sox baseball, without opinions or thoughts on how they could improve, why even post here? What's here for you that gives you joy other than telling other people what to think?

 

Because I am sick of the group that tells everyone they have to be miserable because they didn't get their trophy. It is one thing to talk about the game, or even the bad that goes with it. It is quite another to act like the game owes you something it doesn't.

[southsider2k5]

Since Jerry Reinsdorf took over the club in 1981, of the other 25 non-expansion teams in existence since then, only four of those teams (Royals, Mariners, Brewers, & Nationals) have been to the postseason fewer times than the Sox. And of those four, one team, the Royals, have made a World Series appearance more often than the Sox. If this record of futility doesn't bother you, if you are fine buying a ticket and getting the kind of quality we just saw during this last home stand, and in 2014, 2013, 2011, all the way through most of Reinsdorf's 35 years at the helm, well then fine - have at it. Buy a full season ticket package and get out there to the park and cheer on the mediocrity. But please don't be so crass and condescending with your completely unnecessary "cyber pat" comments when some of us legitimately look at the record of achievement of the ball club and, on a fan message board, suggest it should be better.

 

Funny how your stance keeps softening the further along this goes.

 

The opposite pf your post holds true as well. If this team and game has made you so incredibly miserable, move along. Why do you let it consume you? Apparently you are just fine being miserable, if you are still here, according to the standards you guys laid out for my side of things.

 

Again, we'll see you when the bandwagon fills up again... until then, move along to the team that fills the empty spot you have.

[southsider2k5]

I don't get your point. We should love baseball because it's baseball? The greatest sport on earth? Well I'd argue that the umpires and players have tried to ruin that (pace of play is appalling and strike zone squeezing abominable). However back to my point. Baseball is big business and fans deserve a good product. The product the White Sox have been throwing out there for some time now is not the worst in the industry but very bad.

 

Reading your response, you have no idea what my point actually is.

[Thad Bosley]

You are the one who says the White Sox have had 1 exciting season over the last 35, so postseason appearances that don't result in winning a WS would be considered total failure and an unexciting season. Yet you use postseason non WS win appearance as positives for other teams.

What I have said repeatedly, in relation to why the organization continually has attendance problems, is that we don't win enough. What I've also said repeatedly is that winning is defined as making it to the postseason more often than we do, and then when we get there playing exciting and competitive baseball. I have never once said anything as absurd as we need to win the "trophy" every year, or that we should be in the playoffs every single year. That's ridiculous. But outside of 2005 which, of course, was off-the-charts amazing, in Reinsdorf's 34 other years as owner, there are but four measly playoff appearances and a combined four wins amongst them. So you tell me with that record over three and a half decades now, or even in particular the decade since '05, why anyone should be surprised that attendance is what it is. These attendance issues are a cumulative effect of the lack of achievement by this franchise.

 

As I've said a million times now, we have a dormant fan base that will respond enthusiastically to a team that engages in exciting postseason play. They got a taste of what's that's like in '05, and you couldn't ask for better attendance the following season. But outside of '05, they have not been given that experience at all during our lifetimes. Most of the other franchises have delivered more exciting results to their fans, and the facts support that. For that, I think Mr. Reinsdorf and his management team deserve legitimate criticism. I also think, and this is just my opinion, but I also think the fortunes of this franchise will not change for the better until there is a new owner. It's been 35 years now.

[Thad Bosley]

Funny how your stance keeps softening the further along this goes.

 

The opposite pf your post holds true as well. If this team and game has made you so incredibly miserable, move along. Why do you let it consume you? Apparently you are just fine being miserable, if you are still here, according to the standards you guys laid out for my side of things.

 

Again, we'll see you when the bandwagon fills up again... until then, move along to the team that fills the empty spot you have.

Absolute throw away comments.

[southsider2k5]

What I have said repeatedly, in relation to why the organization continually has attendance problems, is that we don't win enough. What I've also said repeatedly is that winning is defined as making it to the postseason more often than we do, and then when we get there playing exciting and competitive baseball. I have never once said anything as absurd as we need to win the "trophy" every year, or that we should be in the playoffs every single year. That's ridiculous. But outside of 2005 which, of course, was off-the-charts amazing, in Reinsdorf's 34 other years as owner, there are but four measly playoff appearances and a combined four wins amongst them. So you tell me with that record over three and a half decades now, or even in particular the decade since '05, why anyone should be surprised that attendance is what it is. These attendance issues are a cumulative effect of the lack of achievement by this franchise.

 

As I've said a million times now, we have a dormant fan base that will respond enthusiastically to a team that engages in exciting postseason play. They got a taste of what's that's like in '05, and you couldn't ask for better attendance the following season. But outside of '05, they have not been given that experience at all during our lifetimes. Most of the other franchises have delivered more exciting results to their fans, and the facts support that. For that, I think Mr. Reinsdorf and his management team deserve legitimate criticism. I also think, and this is just my opinion, but I also think the fortunes of this franchise will not change for the better until there is a new owner. It's been 35 years now.

 

I am not surprised at all by our attendance. This is the type of fan base we have.