My/Your Off Season Plan

[Chicago White Sox]

I'd rather have Adams than any of those Cubs pieces.

[Jose Abreu]

The issue with all of these fan made Cubs/Sox trade proposals is that Cubs fans are too set on not giving up any of the big prospects (Bryant/Schwarber/Russell) and instead make players like Starlin Castro and Javy Baez centerpieces, while Sox fans are too set on getting 1-2 of the big three prospects while also receiving a Javier Baez or an Albert Almora on the side. There has to be a middle ground. They're undervaluing our pitchers and we're overvaluing them.

[Jose Abreu]

Cubs get a solid pitcher in quintana and a potential stud in spencer who has a ways to go before making his MLB debut seeing as he’s only like 19 years old (at LEAST 2 years away…. more likely 3-4). Sox get the young position prospects they DESPERATELY need. They get a better SS in Castro over having to keep worse Alexei Ramirez…. regardless what Sox fans say. Castro’s down year this year is not too far off a typical Ramirez year. They also get a HR masher in Vogelbach who has superb plate discipline to play 1B/DH with Abreu. They get a solid hitting catching prospect in Zagunis. They get a gold glove in waiting in Almora who scouts say could hit about .280 or better and develop into a 20 HR hitter…… especially playing in US Cellular. And I’ll throw in pierce johnson as a toss in. Projects to be a 3-4 starter if he pans out. Cough up 1 ML pitcher and a pitching prospect for 4 players who could address almost all the Sox weaknesses on offense within 2 years. It at least gives you positional prospect hope. Looked at the top position prospects the Sox have listed on their website……. it’s pretty ugly. This hypothetical trade is more than fair imo.

 

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/10/offs...hite-sox-6.html

Yes, Dan Vogelbach, the great HR "masher", who has 60 career home runs in 411 minor league games.

To give you a reference point, Kris Bryant had 55 home runs in 181 minor league games.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

The issue with all of these fan made Cubs/Sox trade proposals is that Cubs fans are too set on not giving up any of the big prospects (Bryant/Schwarber/Russell) and instead make players like Starlin Castro and Javy Baez centerpieces, while Sox fans are too set on getting 1-2 of the big three prospects while also receiving a Javier Baez or an Albert Almora on the side. There has to be a middle ground. They're undervaluing our pitchers and we're overvaluing them.

I've said it before, but Bryant & Russell are untouchable. Everyone else is fair game. I find the Starlin Castro proposals to be beyond ridiculous. He has almost no value no matter badly as the Cubs want to hype him as a stud middle infielder.

[Jose Abreu]

I've said it before, but Bryant & Russell are untouchable. Everyone else is fair game. I find the Starlin Castro proposals to be beyond ridiculous. He has almost no value no matter badly as the Cubs want to hype him as a stud middle infielder.

Agreed. It's not just his attitude and effort that turns me off, but also his very inconsistent hitting and his contract.

[southsider2k5]

Quintana/Adams for....the steal deal of the century (love those 4-6 for 1-2 plans they come up with) mlbtraderumors

 

 

Cubs get a solid pitcher in quintana and a potential stud in spencer who has a ways to go before making his MLB debut seeing as he’s only like 19 years old (at LEAST 2 years away…. more likely 3-4). Sox get the young position prospects they DESPERATELY need. They get a better SS in Castro over having to keep worse Alexei Ramirez…. regardless what Sox fans say. Castro’s down year this year is not too far off a typical Ramirez year. They also get a HR masher in Vogelbach who has superb plate discipline to play 1B/DH with Abreu. They get a solid hitting catching prospect in Zagunis. They get a gold glove in waiting in Almora who scouts say could hit about .280 or better and develop into a 20 HR hitter…… especially playing in US Cellular. And I’ll throw in pierce johnson as a toss in. Projects to be a 3-4 starter if he pans out. Cough up 1 ML pitcher and a pitching prospect for 4 players who could address almost all the Sox weaknesses on offense within 2 years. It at least gives you positional prospect hope. Looked at the top position prospects the Sox have listed on their website……. it’s pretty ugly. This hypothetical trade is more than fair imo.

 

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/10/offs...hite-sox-6.html

 

Random name count: 8

[Dick Allen]

Agreed. It's not just his attitude and effort that turns me off, but also his very inconsistent hitting and his contract.

He seems to be a guy that is next to trouble a lot as well. There is no question he is inconsistent, but has a ton of talent. He was pretty awesome the last month and a half. If he played to his potential, and his defense at SS isn't so bad advanced stats-wise, he could be a steal. This is one where the Cubs don't appear they could get back anywhere near his potential in a trade, but it also could be addition by subtraction. If they were giving him away, I think I would take a shot.

[caulfield12]

Leading to Soler, Baez and Schwarber as their main trade pieces as usual.

 

 

Always throwing in some names from the 10-20 list instead of a Torres, McKinney, Edwards, Jimenez, etc.

 

Can Almora can still be marketed like 2 years ago, not so much...pretty much the same as arguing Courtney Hawkins is a potential 35/40 homer bat.

Edited November 3, 2015 by caulfield12

[OmarComing25]

Quintana/Adams for....the steal deal of the century (love those 4-6 for 1-2 plans they come up with) mlbtraderumors

 

 

Cubs get a solid pitcher in quintana and a potential stud in spencer who has a ways to go before making his MLB debut seeing as he’s only like 19 years old (at LEAST 2 years away…. more likely 3-4). Sox get the young position prospects they DESPERATELY need. They get a better SS in Castro over having to keep worse Alexei Ramirez…. regardless what Sox fans say. Castro’s down year this year is not too far off a typical Ramirez year. They also get a HR masher in Vogelbach who has superb plate discipline to play 1B/DH with Abreu. They get a solid hitting catching prospect in Zagunis. They get a gold glove in waiting in Almora who scouts say could hit about .280 or better and develop into a 20 HR hitter…… especially playing in US Cellular. And I’ll throw in pierce johnson as a toss in. Projects to be a 3-4 starter if he pans out. Cough up 1 ML pitcher and a pitching prospect for 4 players who could address almost all the Sox weaknesses on offense within 2 years. It at least gives you positional prospect hope. Looked at the top position prospects the Sox have listed on their website……. it’s pretty ugly. This hypothetical trade is more than fair imo.

 

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/10/offs...hite-sox-6.html

So we give up Quintana and Adams for a bunch of prospects that aren't even at the top of the Cubs' own system? The only one there I've heard good things about is Almora, and looking at his minor league stats they're far from impressive. No Torres, McKinney, or Contreras?

[Bigsoxhurt35]

Lol at that f***ing trade

[Eminor3rd]

He seems to be a guy that is next to trouble a lot as well. There is no question he is inconsistent, but has a ton of talent. He was pretty awesome the last month and a half. If he played to his potential, and his defense at SS isn't so bad advanced stats-wise, he could be a steal. This is one where the Cubs don't appear they could get back anywhere near his potential in a trade, but it also could be addition by subtraction. If they were giving him away, I think I would take a shot.

 

Same -- the contract isn't bad either. It's basically Alexei Ramirez money for a few years.

 

As a buy-low, I'm involved for sure. But as a centerpiece to a Quintana trade? Gtfo.

 

I don't think there's any question he's available this offseason; I'd be surprised if the Padres don't make an aggressive play.

[shysocks]

I've always liked Castro. I would give up Montas for him, no problem. His contract is long, yes, but it really isn't bad at all (4/$37, meh). I think he's as good a bet for a bounceback as anybody; I think luck has had a lot to do with his two bad seasons (look how he hit more ground balls those years yet had a lower BABIP); I think he's a prime example of the mythical Change of Scenery Guy.

 

He's cheaper than Alexei Ramirez next year. He's, what, 10 years younger? I know who I'd rather have, and I'd give up some talent to do so. With the eternal caveat that it depends on price, Castro is exactly the type of guy we should be trying to trade for. I think more would agree if he wasn't a Cubbie.

 

I've seen a lot of people posit that we'll pick up Alexei's option because the stopgap free agent shortstops aren't any good. That is true, but Castro could be a building block. He's no stopgap.

Those are still my basic feelings on the matter. If the Cubs are intent on dealing Castro - which it seems like they are - the Sox should absolutely get involved.

[southsider2k5]

Those are still my basic feelings on the matter. If the Cubs are intent on dealing Castro - which it seems like they are - the Sox should absolutely get involved.

 

Depending on the price and what the team thinks of his make up, I'd be interested. We don't have to be married to Sanchez at 2B. That being said, it wouldn't be a huge priority of mine either.

[bmags]

Agreed.

[BlackSox13]

Quintana/Adams for....the steal deal of the century (love those 4-6 for 1-2 plans they come up with) mlbtraderumors

 

 

Cubs get a solid pitcher in quintana and a potential stud in spencer who has a ways to go before making his MLB debut seeing as he’s only like 19 years old (at LEAST 2 years away…. more likely 3-4). Sox get the young position prospects they DESPERATELY need. They get a better SS in Castro over having to keep worse Alexei Ramirez…. regardless what Sox fans say. Castro’s down year this year is not too far off a typical Ramirez year. They also get a HR masher in Vogelbach who has superb plate discipline to play 1B/DH with Abreu. They get a solid hitting catching prospect in Zagunis. They get a gold glove in waiting in Almora who scouts say could hit about .280 or better and develop into a 20 HR hitter…… especially playing in US Cellular. And I’ll throw in pierce johnson as a toss in. Projects to be a 3-4 starter if he pans out. Cough up 1 ML pitcher and a pitching prospect for 4 players who could address almost all the Sox weaknesses on offense within 2 years. It at least gives you positional prospect hope. Looked at the top position prospects the Sox have listed on their website……. it’s pretty ugly. This hypothetical trade is more than fair imo.

 

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/10/offs...hite-sox-6.html

A few problems with this idea. The masher Vogelbach only hit 7HR in 254 PA for AA, not much of a masher as of yet. Zagunis is listed as an outfielder so it doesn't sound like the cubs have much faith in him at the catcher position. Also, this is the kind of trade that a rebuilding team makes and last I heard the Sox were not going to rebuild, not that I would be against it.

 

I do like the names you threw out there but aside from Castro, none of them can help the Sox in '16.

[shysocks]

For the record caulfield didn't come up with that. It's in the comments section of the page he linked to. Do a better job of attributing things that aren't your own thoughts. Clearly it's confusing to a lot of people.

[BlackSox13]

For the record caulfield didn't come up with that. It's in the comments section of the page he linked to. Do a better job of attributing things that aren't your own thoughts. Clearly it's confusing to a lot of people.

Thanks for clarifying that. I did think that was Caulfield's idea, my bad Caulfield.

[Quin]

That's a god awful trade for the Sox.

[Dunt]

The Sox should get nothing short of a Cole Hamels-like package for Quintana. 3 top 100 prospects and a back end starter is what that haul ended up being.

[Dunt]

Steve Adams thinks we will be looking at Freese and Weiters. Freese might be interesting, his career numbers arent bad. Not exciting, but certainly not bad.

[GGajewski18]

Pick up Alexei's 10 million option

Extend Samardzija QO. He rejects it, get a comp pick.

 

Resign RP Matt Albers 1 year/2 million deal

 

Sign 1B/OF Steve Pearce to 1 year/4 million deal

Sign RF Justin Upton 7 years/140 million (opt out after 5 years)

 

Trade 1B Adam LaRoche and cash to the Pirates for SP Charlie Morton

Trade SP Erik Johnson, RF Avail Garcia, 3B Trey Michalczewski, OF Courtney Hawkins, and SP Tyler Danish to the Reds for 3B Todd Fraizer and SP Nick Howard

Trade OF Trayce Thompson and 2B Micah Johnson to the Padres for C Derek Norris

 

Lineup:

CF Adam Eaton (L)

LF Melky Cabrera (S)

1B Jose Abreu

RF Justin Upton

3B Todd Frazier

DH Steve Pearce

SS Alexei Ramirez

C Derek Norris

2B Carlos Sanchez (S)

 

Bench:

C Tyler Flowers, OF J.B Shuck (L), UTIL Tyler Saladino, 1B/3B Mike Olt

 

Pitching Rotation

Chris Sale (L)

Jose Quintana (L)

Carlos Rodon (L)

Jacob Turner/Charlie Morton

John Danks (L)

 

Bullpen:

Jacob Turner/Charlie Morton

Dan Jennings (L)

Jake Petricka

Zach Putnam

Zach Duke

Nate Jones

David Robertson

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

[Jose Abreu]

I don't really think number of games is a good standard for measuring HR frequency.

When the discrepancy is that large, it doesn't matter.

 

[GGajewski18]

Pick up Alexei's 10 million option

Extend Samardzija QO. He rejects it, get a comp pick.

 

Resign RP Matt Albers 1 year/2 million deal

 

Sign 1B/OF Steve Pearce to 1 year/4 million deal

Sign RF Justin Upton 7 years/140 million (opt out after 5 years)

 

Trade 1B Adam LaRoche and cash to the Pirates for SP Charlie Morton

Trade SP Erik Johnson, RF Avail Garcia, 3B Trey Michalczewski, OF Courtney Hawkins, and SP Tyler Danish to the Reds for 3B Todd Fraizer and SP Nick Howard

Trade OF Trayce Thompson and 2B Micah Johnson to the Padres for C Derek Norris

 

Lineup:

CF Adam Eaton (L)

LF Melky Cabrera (S)

1B Jose Abreu

RF Justin Upton

3B Todd Frazier

DH Steve Pearce

SS Alexei Ramirez

C Derek Norris

2B Carlos Sanchez (S)

 

Bench:

C Tyler Flowers, OF J.B Shuck (L), UTIL Tyler Saladino, 1B/3B Mike Olt

 

Pitching Rotation

Chris Sale (L)

Jose Quintana (L)

Carlos Rodon (L)

Jacob Turner/Charlie Morton

John Danks (L)

 

Bullpen:

Jacob Turner/Charlie Morton

Dan Jennings (L)

Jake Petricka

Zach Putnam

Zach Duke

Nate Jones

David Robertson

 

Thoughts?

[Dunt]

Someone I'm keeping an eye on Friday for a QO: Howie Kendrick. He would be a perfect addition for this team, solid glove, great bat out of the 2 hole. Sox should be all over him if the Dodgers don't offer him the QO.

[caulfield12]

The problem there is spending $12 million for a declining veteran who has about five percent probability of being better in 2017-19 when they will most need him.

 

That move is all-in for this year, then you need to deal with the majority of other major roster issues as well.

 

2b is the one area we have some young depth, albeit with uncertain upside.