Alex Gordon Thread

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I predicted the Nats for him. Haven't seen them connected but appears I was off. Oh well. Thought missing on Heyward, they'd go after Gordon.

[Lillian]

Hahn already tipped his intentions to rid the roster of La Roche. A willingness to eat 3/4 of his remaining contract is a pretty strong indication that they want him gone.

It also appears that they are not ready to give up on Avi. If they can clear the DH spot for Melky, then it makes sense that they would acquire Gordon.

He would take Melky's place in LF and Avi would stay in RF. It helps the lineup, as Melky is probably the best 2 hole hitter on the roster. But if he hits second, and La Roche is gone, they have no LH bats to break up the 3 through 7 hitters. Gordon provides that, and balances the line up. He also adds the OBP that Cespedes doesn't,

and will require fewer years and less money than Upton, or Cespedes.

 

I see the lineup vs. RHP like this:

 

CF Eaton

DH Melky

1B Abreu

LF Gordon

3B Frazier

2B Lawrie

RF Avi

C Avila

SS Saladino

 

Like it, or not, I think that's what is coming.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Lillian

[caulfield12]

http://www.southsidesox.com/2015/12/23/106...whatever-degree

 

 

The Royals could be playing poor with Gordon, waiting until somebody honestly forces their hand. Maybe it benefits the White Sox to make a show of doing due diligence on Gordon to make sure that the Royals can't get him as a "crawling back" price, especially if they're still a smaller-market operation despite the immense success with attendance and TV ratings. Maybe the Royals have no interest in committing to Gordon's decline, but Gordon's camp is content to use the Royals as a fallback in order to set a higher floor for himself. And if the Royals don't want Gordon back even at a depressed price, should the White Sox want him that badly in the first place?

 

The key point in the previous paragraph isn't "if they're still a smaller market," it should be SINCE they are...

 

Their current media rights deal is for just $20 million, the lowest in the majors. The best guess is that they're underpaid by roughly $40 million based on the last two seasons and that they would get $120 million in a new package were it to commence this year. Of course, that's not the case, fortunately for the AL Central.

 

Their media deal comes up for renewal the same time as the Cubs and White Sox, 2019. Most of the remaining core of the team will be gone after 2017 and their media rights deal will fall back to the $60-80 million range in all likelihood as the team goes into a rebuilding phase.

 

This difference of $100 million is THE reason Gordon won't be signing with KC.

 

Bet your house on it.

 

You can also bet the White Sox (and Cubs contributing to the White Sox 40% because of skyrocketing ad rates) would generate at least $40-60 million in additional yearly profits on their CSN Chicago deal with the added presence of another star on the Southside and two contending teams at the same time.

Edited December 23, 2015 by caulfield12

[Bigsoxhurt35]

The royals have to play poor. They have guys coming up. Hosmer, Perez, Cain, etc.

[bear_brian]

Hahn already tipped his intentions to rid the roster of La Roche. A willingness to eat 3/4 of his remaining contract is a pretty strong indication that they want him gone.

It also appears that they are not ready to give up on Avi. If they can clear the DH spot for Melky, then it makes sense that they would acquire Gordon.

He would take Melky's place in LF and Avi would stay in RF. It helps the lineup, as Melky is probably the best 2 hole hitter on the roster. But if he hits second, and La Roche is gone, they have no LH bats to break up the 3 through 7 hitters. Gordon provides that, and balances the line up. He also adds the OBP that Cespedes doesn't,

and will require fewer years and less money than Upton, or Cespedes.

 

I see the lineup vs. RHP like this:

 

CF Eaton

DH Melky

1B Abreu

LF Gordon

3B Frazier

2B Lawrie

RF Avi

C Avila

SS Saladino

 

Like it, or not, I think that's what is coming.

 

In Gordon's career he has an OPS of .653 and a career BA of .226 hitting 4th. He is not a cleanup hitter. Sometimes the feeling that you HAVE to have a balanced lineup just does not work. I will again go back to the 2005 Sox, where the majority of that lineup was RH. Unless we trade for CarGo (doubtful), I think Cespedes is the best alternative, since he can play RF and has legitimate power. That does leave Melky in LF (not good) but moves Avi out. I believe they also will keep LaRoche and hope for a bounceback - there is your LH bat.

 

[caulfield12]

The royals have to play poor. They have guys coming up. Hosmer, Moustakas, Perez, Cain, etc.

 

If they don't sign at least two of those three (completely unlikely), there's no point to also extend Perez's team friendly deal. With that type of frame, his body will have worn down so much that a long-term extension would be more of a sentimental business decision than a sound economic one.

Edited December 23, 2015 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

In Gordon's career he has an OPS of .653 and a career BA of .226 hitting 4th. He is not a cleanup hitter. Sometimes the feeling that you HAVE to have a balanced lineup just does not work. I will again go back to the 2005 Sox, where the majority of that lineup was RH. Unless we trade for CarGo (doubtful), I think Cespedes is the best alternative, since he can play RF and has legitimate power. That does leave Melky in LF (not good) but moves Avi out. I believe they also will keep LaRoche and hope for a bounceback - there is your LH bat.

Didn't the 2005 white sox bat Carl Everett 3rd most of the season to break up their righties in the upper part of the order?

[Balta1701]

The royals have to play poor. They have guys coming up. Hosmer, Perez, Cain, etc.

They could alternatively say "We can't sign all these guys so we may as well try to win it one more year next year".

[caulfield12]

Except they have a two year window on everyone but Morales...

 

[Dick Allen]

In Gordon's career he has an OPS of .653 and a career BA of .226 hitting 4th. He is not a cleanup hitter. Sometimes the feeling that you HAVE to have a balanced lineup just does not work. I will again go back to the 2005 Sox, where the majority of that lineup was RH. Unless we trade for CarGo (doubtful), I think Cespedes is the best alternative, since he can play RF and has legitimate power. That does leave Melky in LF (not good) but moves Avi out. I believe they also will keep LaRoche and hope for a bounceback - there is your LH bat.

The way the game is played now with bullpens seemingly being used mor and more, trying to get as lefty righty alternating as you can get causing managers to maybe wait on using a guy or having a LOOGY face a righty or 2 may become more advantageous than traditional or even the latest advance stat idea of where guys should be placed in the line up. Obviously your best hitters have to be hitting the most, but more strategy is now involved.

[bear_brian]

Didn't the 2005 white sox bat Carl Everett 3rd most of the season to break up their righties in the upper part of the order?

 

Everett had career OPS of around .800 hitting either 3rd or 4th. My point is not that we would not want to use a LH to break up the lineup. It is that Gordon is not that guy and therefore the rationale for acquiring him should not be that, but rather that he could give us OBP at the top of the lineup.

[Lillian]

In Gordon's career he has an OPS of .653 and a career BA of .226 hitting 4th. He is not a cleanup hitter. Sometimes the feeling that you HAVE to have a balanced lineup just does not work. I will again go back to the 2005 Sox, where the majority of that lineup was RH. Unless we trade for CarGo (doubtful), I think Cespedes is the best alternative, since he can play RF and has legitimate power. That does leave Melky in LF (not good) but moves Avi out. I believe they also will keep LaRoche and hope for a bounceback - there is your LH bat.

 

Yes, I like Melky's LH bat in the middle of the lineup, but who would bat second. How about switching Gordon and Melky, if the Sox acquire him?

I'm going to look up Gordon's at bats as a clean up hitter. I really didn't realize that he ever hit much in that spot. Thanks.

And hey, I'm not the only one "obsessed" with balance in the lineup. Hahn acquired La Roche, for that reason, and has openly talked about wanting to find a left handed bat. Those of us who feel that it's important may be entirely misguided, however it seems to be a common perception, within the organization.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Lillian

[Rowand44]

Gordon has a whole 257 at bats in the 4 spot, I'm not taking anything away from those statistics. That said, his obp in the 2 hole right in front of Jose would be enticing.

[BlackSox13]

Looks like the market for Gordon/Upton/Cespedes has become a bit smaller now. Just yesterday the Giants were rumored to be looking at one of the three and it sounds as though that may have changed.

 

"The Giants remain unlikely to play at the top of the free agent outfield market, according to the report, but might look at the next level down. Two names in play are Dexter Fowler and Gerardo Parra, with another possibility being the addition of a right-handed-hitting platoon partner for Gregor Blanco. San Francisco is also in communication with the Rockies on their outfielders, Rosenthal’s colleague Jon Morosi reports."

 

Wonder if the Giants would have any interest in Avi as a platoon partner? I don't expect much of anything in return but it would open up a roster spot on the Sox for a FA while the Giants get a relatively cheap platoon option in Avi.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

393 posts about moves that might not happen. We are analyzing!

[bmags]

Looks like the market for Gordon/Upton/Cespedes has become a bit smaller now. Just yesterday the Giants were rumored to be looking at one of the three and it sounds as though that may have changed.

 

"The Giants remain unlikely to play at the top of the free agent outfield market, according to the report, but might look at the next level down. Two names in play are Dexter Fowler and Gerardo Parra, with another possibility being the addition of a right-handed-hitting platoon partner for Gregor Blanco. San Francisco is also in communication with the Rockies on their outfielders, Rosenthal’s colleague Jon Morosi reports."

 

Wonder if the Giants would have any interest in Avi as a platoon partner? I don't expect much of anything in return but it would open up a roster spot on the Sox for a FA while the Giants get a relatively cheap platoon option in Avi.

 

It may also mean among the teams bidding that they are more expensive.

 

[lasttriptotulsa]

393 posts about moves that might not happen. We are analyzing!

 

Or just very bored waiting for something to happen.

[Dick Allen]

Looks like the market for Gordon/Upton/Cespedes has become a bit smaller now. Just yesterday the Giants were rumored to be looking at one of the three and it sounds as though that may have changed.

 

"The Giants remain unlikely to play at the top of the free agent outfield market, according to the report, but might look at the next level down. Two names in play are Dexter Fowler and Gerardo Parra, with another possibility being the addition of a right-handed-hitting platoon partner for Gregor Blanco. San Francisco is also in communication with the Rockies on their outfielders, Rosenthal’s colleague Jon Morosi reports."

 

Wonder if the Giants would have any interest in Avi as a platoon partner? I don't expect much of anything in return but it would open up a roster spot on the Sox for a FA while the Giants get a relatively cheap platoon option in Avi.

I don't get the fascination with Parra. His defensive metrics have trended down quickly the past couple of years, he has no power, and he was awful with the Orioles. Whoever signs him will regret it.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Dick Allen

[Lillian]

Hey "Bear Brian", to your point: I remember that it was about the time that the Sox were desperate for a decent bat, to hit behind Abreu, that they moved Melky to the middle of the order, and he took off. He is a good run producer, and although he won't hit many homers, he could indeed bat between Jose and Frazier, if the Sox acquire Gordon and put his good OBP in the 2 hole.

In any case, I will be very disappointed if the Sox start the season with La Roche in the middle of the order. I would be an advocate for your position, if he were the only other LH bat, besides Melky. I'd rather see them have 6 right handed hitters in a row, than put La Roche in the middle of that lineup. La Roche has to be in the bottom third of the lineup, if at all.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Lillian

[Dick Allen]

Hey "Bear Brian", to your point: I remember that it was about the time that the Sox were desperate for a decent bat, to hit behind Abreu, that they moved Melky to the middle of the order, and he took off. He is a good run producer, and although he won't hit many homers, he could indeed bat between Jose and Frazier, it the Sox acquire Gordon and put his good OBP in the 2 hole.

In any case, I will be very disappointed if the Sox start the season with La Roche in the middle of the order. I would be an advocate for your position, if he were the only other LH bat, besides Melky. I'd rather see them have 6 right handed hitters in a row, than put La Roche in the middle of that lineup.

If LaRoche is in the middle of the order, it means he is back to the guy who the Sox thought they signed.

[BlackSox13]

It may also mean among the teams bidding that they are more expensive.

That could very well be. Teams are probably looking at the second tier as more cost effective options.

 

I don't get the fascination with Parra. His defensive metrics have trended down quickly the past couple of years, he has no power, and he was awful with the Orioles. Whoever signs him will regret it.

Initially I liked the idea of Parra but I've backed off after seeing his trend and how bad he was in Baltimore. Parra is why I'm more open to the idea of the Sox potentially signing Gordon despite his age, not that I'm counting on the Sox signing him.

[Lillian]

If LaRoche is in the middle of the order, it means he is back to the guy who the Sox thought they signed.

 

We hope!!

[Saufley]

If LaRoche is in the middle of the order, it means he is back to the guy who the Sox thought they signed.

 

or that Ventura is still the guy making out the lineup

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Hahn already tipped his intentions to rid the roster of La Roche. A willingness to eat 3/4 of his remaining contract is a pretty strong indication that they want him gone.

It also appears that they are not ready to give up on Avi. If they can clear the DH spot for Melky, then it makes sense that they would acquire Gordon.

He would take Melky's place in LF and Avi would stay in RF. It helps the lineup, as Melky is probably the best 2 hole hitter on the roster. But if he hits second, and La Roche is gone, they have no LH bats to break up the 3 through 7 hitters. Gordon provides that, and balances the line up. He also adds the OBP that Cespedes doesn't,

and will require fewer years and less money than Upton, or Cespedes.

 

I see the lineup vs. RHP like this:

 

CF Eaton

DH Melky

1B Abreu

LF Gordon

3B Frazier

2B Lawrie

RF Avi

C Avila

SS Saladino

 

Like it, or not, I think that's what is coming.

I can't see this team spending $20M per on Alex Gordon (on top of Frazier & Lawrie moves) only to trot Avi's useless ass out in RF on a daily basis. Maybe as a part of a platoon, but not as the everyday starter. Until you get that RF upgrade, you're better off with Melky in RF & an LaRoche/Avi platoon at DH.

 

And if you add Gordon, he should definitely bat second where his on-base skills can be maximized.

 

1. Eaton, CF

2. Gordon, LF

3. Abreu, 1B

4. Frazier, 3B

5. Cabrera, 3B

6. Lawrie, 2B

7. LaRoche/Avi, DH

8. Saladino, SS

9. Avila/Navarro, C

[bear_brian]

Hey "Bear Brian", to your point: I remember that it was about the time that the Sox were desperate for a decent bat, to hit behind Abreu, that they moved Melky to the middle of the order, and he took off. He is a good run producer, and although he won't hit many homers, he could indeed bat between Jose and Frazier, if the Sox acquire Gordon and put his good OBP in the 2 hole.

In any case, I will be very disappointed if the Sox start the season with La Roche in the middle of the order. I would be an advocate for your position, if he were the only other LH bat, besides Melky. I'd rather see them have 6 right handed hitters in a row, than put La Roche in the middle of that lineup. La Roche has to be in the bottom third of the lineup, if at all.

 

I do not disagree with you at all regarding the usefulness of a LH bat in the middle of the order. I just do not think that Gordon has shown he is comfortable there. Ideally (but doubtful) having the pre-2015 Adam LaRoche would be ideal. Failing that I think, if we do get Gordon, that Frazier behind Abreu (with Eaton and Gordon 1-2) and Melky 5th would work just fine.