fathom Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 05:48 AM) Soler or Baez for pitching to TB and then Fowler coming back makes too much sense... Plus Soler upped his value a bit with that flash of potential in the post-season. I think it's more likely the Cubs get Fowler than the Sox do. Cubs will also probably trade Hammel to free some money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:49 PM) I think it's more likely the Cubs get Fowler than the Sox do. Cubs will also probably trade Hammel to free some money. Guess it also depends how confident they are in Kendricks and Warren, too. With the crazy pitching contracts, seems anything is possible (not eating any of Hammel's salary) except for the White Sox dumping Danks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:27 PM) No clue how true, but from Wednesday https://mobile.twitter.com/HotStoveCubbies/...045666983182336 Ruh roh! Sounds like our discussions could be in motion. Stay tuned, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:54 PM) Guess it also depends how confident they are in Kendricks and Warren, too. With the crazy pitching contracts, seems anything is possible (not eating any of Hammel's salary) except for the White Sox dumping Danks. Along with dealing Soler moving Heyward to right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 12:50 AM) Along with dealing Soler moving Heyward to right. Fathom and I were talking about this a few nights ago. Im thinking the Shelby Miller Haul was due to the cubs interest in Miller and were offering Soler as the headliner in a package for Miller. That's when AZ had to one up the cubs to be sure they got Miller. Sounds like the Cubs are now offering Soler to the Rays for a SP which would open the door to re-sign Fowler. Cub fans really want Fowler back and Maddon has talked him up as well so at this point I'd be surprised if the cubs didn't sign Fowler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 11:48 PM) Soler or Baez for pitching to TB and then Fowler coming back makes too much sense... Plus Soler upped his value a bit with that flash of potential in the post-season. The Cubs are overrating Soler so much, it's funny. They should include Schwarber (DH) call Billy, and polielty ask him what else do they want for Sonny. Give 'em Baez too. Move like THAT...would make me take them seriously. Gray is like Sale but even cheaper. He is the most VALUABLE pitcher in baseball. Edited January 23, 2016 by CB2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 01:28 AM) The Cubs are overrating Soler so much, it's funny. They should include Schwarber (DH) call Billy, and polielty ask him what else do they want for Sonny. Give 'em Baez too. Move like THAT...would make me take them seriously. Gray is like Sale but even cheaper. He is the most VALUABLE pitcher in baseball. Let's not get crazy here. Gray's good, but let's see him put up one 4 WAR season first before saying he's "like Sale". The guy's peripherals are solid but far from spectacular. Sale is still easily the more valuable pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 02:52 AM) Let's not get crazy here. Gray's good, but let's see him put up one 4 WAR season first before saying he's "like Sale". The guy's peripherals are solid but far from spectacular. Sale is still easily the more valuable pitcher. What are the A's gonna pay Gray this year? What are the Sox gonna pay Sale? I said VALUE...not better, necessarily. The ole "bang for the buck". Sale '16 - $9.1M Gray - '16 - (Arb process - $512,000 base) Gray is SO MUCH MORE VALUABLE it's not even funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 02:17 AM) What are the A's gonna pay Gray this year? What are the Sox gonna pay Sale? I said VALUE...not better, necessarily. The ole "bang for the buck". Sale '16 - $9.1M Gray - '16 - (Arb process - $512,000 base) Gray is SO MUCH MORE VALUABLE it's not even funny. Yeah that's not true. If they both put up their projections next year, Sale at $9.1M and 6+ WAR is still providing more surplus value than Gray at $512,000 and 3.5-4 WAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Or, unless there is consummation of long ongoing trade talks with the Cubs (Javier Baez, more so than Jorge Soler) or Rockies (Corey Dickerson, more so than Charlie Blackmon) in exchange for reliever Jake McGee or a starter. http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseball/ra...n-moves/2262481 Sounds like the Rays could be a Debbie downer with regards to the cubs interest in bringing back Fowler, then again so could the Dodgers' suspected interest in Fowler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 08:48 PM) http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseball/ra...n-moves/2262481 Sounds like the Rays could be a Debbie downer with regards to the cubs interest in bringing back Fowler, then again so could the Dodgers' suspected interest in Fowler. I remember Bowden said a week ago that he asked the Cubs about Fowler and they wouldnt answer him. He thinks they've definitely moved on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 lol at the guy that thinks that Gray is WAY more valuable than Sale. He might have slightly more value, but it's close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 08:52 PM) I remember Bowden said a week ago that he asked the Cubs about Fowler and they wouldnt answer him. He thinks they've definitely moved on. As of right now the cubs have 153.5M committed to 18 players and that does not include Arrieta or filling out the roster with league minimum players. By the time the cubs fill out the roster and settle with Arrieta, they will probably end up in the 165-167M range. That leaves them plenty of cap space but that doesn't mean they have or are willing to spend the money for Fowler. Bowden might be right since this is Fowler's chance at a nice payday that should bring him security for the 3 years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 09:48 PM) http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseball/ra...n-moves/2262481 Sounds like the Rays could be a Debbie downer with regards to the cubs interest in bringing back Fowler, then again so could the Dodgers' suspected interest in Fowler. How many outfielders do the Dodgers need? Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 03:17 AM) What are the A's gonna pay Gray this year? What are the Sox gonna pay Sale? I said VALUE...not better, necessarily. The ole "bang for the buck". Sale '16 - $9.1M Gray - '16 - (Arb process - $512,000 base) Gray is SO MUCH MORE VALUABLE it's not even funny. You're completely wrong. Literally every team in baseball would add Sale at ~$10m/year, even if their budget was maxed. If Sale was making $25m or something, then we're talking. Furthermore, when you start to add up the monetary value of the control years, the cash gap shrinks even more. Sale has just over $48m left over four years, $27.5m of which is on two team options. Gray's arb payout (assuming he stays healthy and productive) will probably end up paying him $25-30m (conservatively given continued salary inflation), making the total gap likely ~$5m per year over the lives of the contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Fowler is becoming more open to taking a one-year “pillow” contract, according to a source, and is also softening his stance of moving from center field to left field. http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/around-th...h-negotiations/ This is about the only Fowler news I could find. Imo,it's a gamble ( like Desmond) to give up a pick just to sign a player to a one year deal. If the player tanks, the team is screwed once the player becomes a FA again. If the Sox are still interested in Fowler, I hope it's for a multi year contract. Otherwise, the search continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 QUOTE (scs787 @ Jan 24, 2016 -> 12:39 AM) How many outfielders do the Dodgers need? Jesus. Lol, no kidding. The Dodgers have enough pitchers and outfielders for two teams. Supposedly the Dodgers are interested in Fowler because he is a good lead off bat with his speed and OBP but unless the Dodgers move Ethier or Crawford to make room for Fowler, I think they go with Micah leading off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 What kind of package could we see to get Ethier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 24, 2016 -> 11:06 AM) What kind of package could we see to get Ethier? I was wondering the same thing. I posted an article yesterday in the Ethier thread that mentioned the Dodgers would have to eat some money in order to trade him due to Ethier being used in a platoon last year. I'd guess the less money the Sox expect with Ethier the less the Sox would have to give up for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 The Los Angeles Angels still have a huge glaring hole in left-field. Could Dexter Fowler be a target? The Angels own the 17th overall pick in the first round of the draft, so there could be some hesitation to spend the pick, but he is the best outfield target for their needs left unsigned. The Angels chose not to get involved in the high price markets, and they might get Fowler on a one-year deal. Being beneficial to both club, and player. He could re-enter a less crowded market next fall, and the Angels could give him a qualifying offer to get back their first round pick. http://basesareloaded.sportsblog.com/posts...ls-target-.html Don't see the Angels being very interested in Fowler to be honest. I wonder if the Angels would make a play for Ethier to hit in front of Trout. To me, that would make more sense for the Angels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Did you know that over the past five seasons, just three center fielders have an on-base percentage above .365? Fowler is one, and Mike Trout and Andrew McCutchen are the others. That's pretty good company, and it's surprising to see a proven leadoff hitter coming off a sensational second half on a winning team waiting so long to find work just shy of his 30th birthday. But of course, the Draft pick compensation issue is a key one in Fowler's market. It's possible he'll sign a deal similar to the three-year, $31 million contract Denard Span got from the Giants. http://m.mlb.com/news/article/162810252/de...-in-free-agency If Fowler was willing to sign a contract along the lines of what Span got, I just might be able to get on board with the idea. For some reason I think Fowler will get more than Span but I've been wrong many times before. Edited January 26, 2016 by BlackSox13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 QUOTE (Tony @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 09:30 PM) He should and will, but it won't be that much more. For a 3 year deal and the Sox trying to "go for it", the one draft pick shouldn't be much of a concern to be honest. If they were in full rebuild, it wouldn't make any sense. But then they shouldn't have traded for Frazier and signed the two catchers if that was the case. Sign him. I could be wrong but I think Fowler and his agent will use Melky's contract as a base starting point. I believe Melky's contract is for 13M in '15, 14M in '16, 15M in '17 totaling 42M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 25, 2016 -> 09:42 PM) I could be wrong but I think Fowler and his agent will use Melky's contract as a base starting point. I believe Melky's contract is for 13M in '15, 14M in '16, 15M in '17 totaling 42M. Spring Training is less than 4 weeks away. That clock is ticking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB2.0 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 24, 2016 -> 01:57 AM) You're completely wrong. Literally every team in baseball would add Sale at ~$10m/year, even if their budget was maxed. If Sale was making $25m or something, then we're talking. Furthermore, when you start to add up the monetary value of the control years, the cash gap shrinks even more. Sale has just over $48m left over four years, $27.5m of which is on two team options. Gray's arb payout (assuming he stays healthy and productive) will probably end up paying him $25-30m (conservatively given continued salary inflation), making the total gap likely ~$5m per year over the lives of the contracts. Where was I "completely wrong?" I asked what is the cost to the A's for Gray "this year". I'm not disagreeing with anything you posted (agree 100% about the value gap shrinking over time), but: 1. Not a point anyone was making 2. If he continues to perform at current levels he's still more "bang for buck" value, particularly since he has virtually no impact on a team's payroll. Edited January 26, 2016 by CB2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 03:17 AM) What are the A's gonna pay Gray this year? What are the Sox gonna pay Sale? I said VALUE...not better, necessarily. The ole "bang for the buck". Sale '16 - $9.1M Gray - '16 - (Arb process - $512,000 base) Gray is SO MUCH MORE VALUABLE it's not even funny. I was referring to the bolded portion of the post above, not the discussion at large. I should have bolded it before. Edited January 26, 2016 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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