FWIW, if I were a GM of another team, I wouldn't give you one scrap of talent for Erik Johnson. Not until he proves it in the big leagues. I look at his minor league record and major league/2014 implosion and think he's at best a rebuilding project if my organization were to pick him up, and I can just wait until the White Sox let him go when he runs out of options if I want to try my luck at that.

What was 2015 Charlotte, if not rebuilding? 1.12 WHIP, BB under 3/9 and over a K per inning?

There are questions about whether he can pitch in the majors, but more minor league time won't help that. He dominates AAA.

FWIW, if I were a GM of another team, I wouldn't give you one scrap of talent for Erik Johnson. Not until he proves it in the big leagues. I look at his minor league record and major league/2014 implosion and think he's at best a rebuilding project if my organization were to pick him up, and I can just wait until the White Sox let him go when he runs out of options if I want to try my luck at that.

 

His big league numbers last year had bad peripherals, he had a major velocity drop for a full season that could have been some sort of lingering injury, and he only had success at AAA when he was in his 3rd stint there at age 25.

 

If I were a losing team and I shedded a salary I didn't want, fine, I'll take him back, but that's his value to me until he proves he can be a big league pitcher. With this signing, I'd start thinking the White Sox feel the same way.

 

Johnson was pretty damn good in his 1st AAA appearance back in 2013... And harping on peripherals on a 35 inning sample size in September is grasping for straws at best. Not like he's had bad periphs in the minors at any point minus 2014. How dare he not come up and dominate right away. And the velocity was back up over 91 last year, you're creating problems with the guy at this point. He had 1 fluke bad year. Why? Who knows. He's not the 1st nor the last pitcher it will happen to.

 

I'm not saying EJ is going to be great (solid 4th starter), and the Latos deal for $3M certainly can't be called bad. I'm just confused as to why they seem to want to replace a 26 year old with a good track record before he fails. Hopefully both EJ and Latos pitch well and we can be talking about Danks DFA'd.

Latos didn't sign for that kind of money, without some kind of guarantee to get plenty of innings. That's fine, as he is probably a better pitcher than E. Johnson. Nevertheless, the Sox need the depth.

They didn't have a single starter lose significant playing time, last year. It would be unusual to go two years in a row, with all 5 starters not having any down time.

Come to think about it, I don't remember any Sox starter missing a lot of time in 2014 either. Sale had that ankle injury in Spring training last year, but he didn't miss much time. That is the only instance that I can remember, in the last two years. Am I forgetting something?

Latos didn't sign for that kind of money, without some kind of guarantee to get plenty of innings. That's fine, as he is probably a better pitcher than E. Johnson. Nevertheless, the Sox need the depth.

They didn't have a single starter lose significant playing time, last year. It would be unusual to go two years in a row, with all 5 starters not having any down time.

Come to think about it, I don't remember any Sox starter missing a lot of time in 2014 either. Sale had that ankle injury in Spring training last year, but he didn't miss much time. That is the only instance that I can remember, in the last two years. Am I forgetting something?

 

Rodon missed a start or two with a blister, but that's about it for last year, that I can remember anyway.

Latos didn't sign for that kind of money, without some kind of guarantee to get plenty of innings. That's fine, as he is probably a better pitcher than E. Johnson. Nevertheless, the Sox need the depth.

They didn't have a single starter lose significant playing time, last year. It would be unusual to go two years in a row, with all 5 starters not having any down time.

Come to think about it, I don't remember any Sox starter missing a lot of time in 2014 either. Sale had that ankle injury in Spring training last year, but he didn't miss much time. That is the only instance that I can remember, in the last two years. Am I forgetting something?

 

Sale missed about 5 weeks in 2014.

Johnson was pretty damn good in his 1st AAA appearance back in 2013... And harping on peripherals on a 35 inning sample size in September is grasping for straws at best. Not like he's had bad periphs in the minors at any point minus 2014. How dare he not come up and dominate right away. And the velocity was back up over 91 last year, you're creating problems with the guy at this point. He had 1 fluke bad year. Why? Who knows. He's not the 1st nor the last pitcher it will happen to.

 

I'm not saying EJ is going to be great (solid 4th starter), and the Latos deal for $3M certainly can't be called bad. I'm just confused as to why they seem to want to replace a 26 year old with a good track record before he fails. Hopefully both EJ and Latos pitch well and we can be talking about Danks DFA'd.

 

A team is going to know a lot more than his stats when it comes to a pitcher that has been in their system as long as Johnson has. They know something more than just his numbers.

A team is going to know a lot more than his stats when it comes to a pitcher that has been in their system as long as Johnson has. They know something more than just his numbers.

Could be analogous to the Daniel Hudson scenario.

Could be analogous to the Daniel Hudson scenario.

 

If it were my money, I would put it closer to the Clayton Richard scenario.

I can't believe no one's figured out Hahn master plan: Sign enough dickheads and LaRoche will retire .

 

2nd in total pitching WAR to the Dodgers since 2010.

2015 9th

2014 23

2013 16

2012 12

Then

2011 2

2010 1

2 pitchers in their mid 20s, Danks and Floyd, basically at their peak these 2 years. those 2010-11 teams had good starting staffs.

 

Anyway, regarding EJ, check out Floyd's cup of coffee numbers with the Phillies. They were terrible in 3 tries.

As for Jacob Turner, he was horrible by any measure in 2013 and 14 (pitched 9 minor league innings in 2015). his GB % is 47% and it's not like he's striking out a lot of guys.

Charlotte doesn't seem the answer for EJ.

2015 9th

2014 23

2013 16

2012 12

Then

2011 2

2010 1

2 pitchers in their mid 20s, Danks and Floyd, basically at their peak these 2 years. those 2010-11 teams had good starting staffs.

Anyway, regarding EJ, check out Floyd's cup of coffee numbers with the Phillies. They were terrible in 3 tries.

As for Jacob Turner, he was horrible by any measure in 2013 and 14 (pitched 9 minor league innings in 2015). his GB % is 47% and it's not like he's striking out a lot of guys.

Charlotte doesn't seem the answer for EJ.

 

Which tells me it comes down to scouting, not numbers.

So, someone really doesn't like this move? I'm curious as to why they don't. Before they say, "well he's a bad clubhouse guy." This team sucks. It's not like they're close to a World Series run.

Which tells me it comes down to scouting, not numbers.

It probably does. They got him for nothing so if he can pitch, he can pitch.

Another pitcher in the mix for the pen is Tommy Kahnle, for whom they traded 21 year old Almonte who blistered A ball (modest K totals are the only neg I see on Almonte). Kahnle is another one of those high K pitchers, with command and control issues that they like to try to fix. Hope they can. I assume they made the trade thinking he had a good shot for a pen spot.

Bullpen is getting crowed.

Putnam is pretty much the only reclamation project that has worked out in the last few years. He can be inconsistent, but he gets Ks.

Edited February 10, 201610 yr by GreenSox

Probably like one in a trillion.

 

Id put $10 on those odds.

It probably does. They got him for nothing so if he can pitch, he can pitch.

Another pitcher in the mix for the pen is Tommy Kahnle, for whom they traded 21 year old Almonte who blistered A ball (modest K totals are the only neg I see on Almonte). Kahnle is another one of those high K pitchers, with command and control issues that they like to try to fix. Hope they can. I assume they made the trade thinking he had a good shot for a pen spot.

Bullpen is getting crowed.

Putnam is pretty much the only reclamation project that has worked out in the last few years. He can be inconsistent, but he gets Ks.

 

They also have Phillipe Aumont who was pretty solid out of the pen for Philly as well who is on the outside looking in.

They also have Phillipe Aumont who was pretty solid out of the pen for Philly as well who is on the outside looking in.

If you consider his performance solid out of the pen, Johnson should be considered a Cy Young candidate at the very least.

Edited February 10, 201610 yr by Dick Allen

They also have Phillipe Aumont who was pretty solid out of the pen for Philly as well who is on the outside looking in.

 

Aumont is garbage. He throws hard with movement but he has absolutely no clue where the pitch will end up. He's not a factor in anything unless there is a miracle turnaround at age 27/28.

Well, bullpen pieces are fickle. You get 3 guys with good stuff who can't throw strikes, there is a greater than 0 chance that one ends up having a dynamite year.

 

There is also a great chance none do anything, and if that's the case, I don't think we are that far off.

 

By these 3 guys I'm thinking of Cleto, Aumont and Kahnle.

Aumont is garbage. He throws hard with movement but he has absolutely no clue where the pitch will end up. He's not a factor in anything unless there is a miracle turnaround at age 27/28.

In all likelihood he will be garbage, but signing these guys, especially relievers, if you aren't counting on them, is pretty good business. You change something up and it works, he's a steal. These guys only usually have to get 1 to 3 outs an outing. The smallest tweak can make a huge difference.

Edited February 10, 201610 yr by Dick Allen

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/white-sox-b...-his-baggage-2/

If Latos was guaranteed a spot in the rotation, who is the odd man out? Johnson or Danks?

 

I'd have to assume that it'd be Johnson just because Danks is paid so much $$$.

If Latos was guaranteed a spot in the rotation, who is the odd man out? Johnson or Danks?

 

I'd have to assume that it'd be Johnson just because Danks is paid so much $$$.

 

100% EJ.

I still have irrational confidence in Danks being a decent pitcher this year, just because I saw him pitch two gems last year in person that were the only entertaining games I saw in person.

I would love if Danks could somehow perform to his 2nd half ERA (4.08) over a full season but anything around 4.50-4.60 and I'd be happy. Probably will be closer to 5 though. Hopefully he can beat the Royals several times again.