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DirtySox

Legitimate chance of Sale trade to #Nationals per Rosenthal

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QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:05 PM)
Man, it'd be nice if some of the people here actually tried to answer questions and didn't just make smart-ass remarks. When did I ever say Benintendi and Devers were nowhere near enough? I'd be thrilled with that return, and I always would have been. Piece #6 in a Chris Sale trade doesn't mean much to me. I care about the headliners and if those are solid, I'm going to be happy.

 

And TaylorStSox, maybe I'm a little skeptical about the competence of a FO that once gave us Avisail Garcia as a centerpiece. But I appreciate your attempt a wise-ass remark nonetheless.

 

There have been trades in the past where the throw in guy/guys have been the ones who made the deal valuable. The more players you get for Sale, the more likely it is you're going to get value out of the deal.

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QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:19 PM)
Peavy had a ton of value obviously :lol:

 

To be fair, the Sox technically had Jose Iglesias, Frankie Montas, J.B. Wendelken and Cleuluis Rondon from that.

 

If the Sox had only held onto Iglesias, but at the time many thought Avi would become a monster and that Iglesias was all glove.

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:22 PM)
To be fair, the Sox technically had Jose Iglesias, Frankie Montas, J.B. Wendelken and Cleuluis Rondon from that.

 

If the Sox had only held onto Iglesias :/

Yeah, it was actually a good trade. 4 intriguing prospects for a guy whose arm was barely hanging on.

 

Also, we don't know what's happening behind the scenes. For all we know, Sale has told the Sox he won't pitch for them. While he's contractually obligated, he's immature enough to do some really stupid things and completely disrupt anything he's part of.

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Holy s***.

 

A post-TJS pitcher who sucked out loud in his MLB debut, and a sub .800 OPS in A+ bat is the centerpiece of a supposed "franchise altering return?"

 

After seeing what Shelby f***ing Miller cost, the domestic abuser Chapman cost, and what Andrew Miller cost, this proposed deal is a f***ing insult to SOX fans.

 

You've got to be f***ing kidding me. Unless there are significant additions to this deal, we should be disgusted as fans.

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QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:28 PM)
Holy s***.

 

A post-TJS pitcher who sucked out loud in his MLB debut, and a sub .800 OPS in A+ bat is the centerpiece of a supposed "franchise altering return?"

 

After seeing what Shelby f***ing Miller cost, the domestic abuser Chapman cost, and what Andrew Miller cost, this proposed deal is a f***ing insult to SOX fans.

 

You've got to be f***ing kidding me. Unless there are significant additions to this deal, we should be disgusted as fans.

 

You sound angry / the deal hasn't happened.

 

No way it's just Giolito and Robles, and that's still a good start.

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QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:28 PM)
Holy s***.

 

A post-TJS pitcher who sucked out loud in his MLB debut, and a sub .800 OPS in A+ bat is the centerpiece of a supposed "franchise altering return?"

 

After seeing what Shelby f***ing Miller cost, the domestic abuser Chapman cost, and what Andrew Miller cost, this proposed deal is a f***ing insult to SOX fans.

 

You've got to be f***ing kidding me. Unless there are significant additions to this deal, we should be disgusted as fans.

 

Dude, it is 2 of the top 10 prospects in the game. If it's just those two, I'd be very disappointed, but it's not going to be. Calm yourself.

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QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:28 PM)
Holy s***.

 

A post-TJS pitcher who sucked out loud in his MLB debut, and a sub .800 OPS in A+ bat is the centerpiece of a supposed "franchise altering return?"

 

After seeing what Shelby f***ing Miller cost, the domestic abuser Chapman cost, and what Andrew Miller cost, this proposed deal is a f***ing insult to SOX fans.

 

You've got to be f***ing kidding me. Unless there are significant additions to this deal, we should be disgusted as fans.

Haha completely over the top but I love it

 

Reminds me of something one of the national reporters said a few years back. Want to say it was Keith Law, that 29 fanbases way over value their own teams talent. And then there's White Sox fans who do just the opposite. I do get that vibe in this thread.

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QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:28 PM)
Holy s***.

 

A post-TJS pitcher who sucked out loud in his MLB debut, and a sub .800 OPS in A+ bat is the centerpiece of a supposed "franchise altering return?"

 

After seeing what Shelby f***ing Miller cost, the domestic abuser Chapman cost, and what Andrew Miller cost, this proposed deal is a f***ing insult to SOX fans.

 

You've got to be f***ing kidding me. Unless there are significant additions to this deal, we should be disgusted as fans.

 

Pointless to get upset over fictional returns on trades that haven't occurred yet. Plenty of time to light your torches.

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:30 PM)
You sound angry / the deal hasn't happened.

 

No way it's just Giolito and Robles, and that's still a good start.

We've been discussing how a trade for Sale would be "franchise altering," and how it would "hurt" the team who traded for Sale.

 

To me, neither of these things are in evidence for a TJS survivor and a sub .800 OPS hitter in A+.

 

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:30 PM)
Dude, it is 2 of the top 10 prospects in the game. If it's just those two, I'd be very disappointed, but it's not going to be. Calm yourself.

You know what? A prospect's subjective ranking is only one data point. A player's craptacular results are another.

 

 

Why do posters want this front office to be responsible for a rebuild, again?

 

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QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:42 PM)
We've been discussing how a trade for Sale would be "franchise altering," and how it would "hurt" the team who traded for Sale.

 

To me, neither of these things are in evidence for a TJS survivor and a sub .800 OPS hitter in A+.

 

 

You know what? A prospect's subjective ranking is only one data point. A player's craptacular results are another.

 

 

Why do posters want this front office to be responsible for a rebuild, again?

 

We should totally just do what we have been doing. That has worked out so well. Keep running into that wall. Eventually it will move.

 

Edited by southsideirish71

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:33 PM)
Haha completely over the top but I love it

 

Reminds me of something one of the national reporters said a few years back. Want to say it was Keith Law, that 29 fanbases way over value their own teams talent. And then there's White Sox fans who do just the opposite. I do get that vibe in this thread.

Yup.

 

We were promised a return that would "blow us away."

 

f*** Giolito's subjective "ranking," maybe him sucking out loud (in the little boy NL, mind you) is why he's available. And maybe Robles' measly .741 OPS in his third professional season is why the Nats want to sucker this front office.

 

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:34 PM)
Pointless to get upset over fictional returns on trades that haven't occurred yet. Plenty of time to light your torches.

Sounds good, I'll get the gasoline ready, you get the oily rags.

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QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:42 PM)
Why do posters want this front office to be responsible for a rebuild, again?

Pretty much where I'm at with it. Soxtalk despises the front office more than anything yet want them to rush into making the most important trade in the history of this franchise. Although we are stuck with them so.

Edited by Buehrle>Wood

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QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 09:06 PM)
Just not a fan of Giolito. Oh well, clear the big name guys are unavailable

 

if Hahn is okay with "untouchables" while negotiating to trade Sale, he's a complete and utter failure of a GM.

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QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 10:47 PM)
I'd be SHOCKED if something happens before Wednesday

 

And THAT is why I took Wednesday off work. Was thinking talks would start Monday, heat up Tuesday, finalize on Wednesday. We shall see.

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QUOTE (Real @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:49 PM)
if Hahn is okay with "untouchables" while negotiating to trade Sale, he's a complete and utter failure of a GM.

 

I'll critique a trade once it is finalized, until then we really don't know.

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Two thoughts before I call it a night.

 

1. It's not a matter of if anymore but pretty much when and for who. Sale getting traded is a big deal and I think it signals a full (not a half ass) rebuild. I won't believe it until Sale is officially traded but this would represent a huge organizational change for the Sox that many of us never thought they would choose.

 

2. Regardless of who the Sox land for Sale, it won't fix everything. There will be many more trades made to restock the system and this organization needs to start drafting better and developing players in house if they ever want to have a team that is a contender every year.

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QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:44 PM)
We should totally just do what we have been doing. That has worked out so well. Keep running into that wall. Eventually it will move.

Or, better yet:change the people making the decisions, FIRST, and THEN, let a better, smarter front office make better and smarter decisions.

 

Remember, kids: Kenny Williams completed high school before the advent of "No Pass, No Play" Laws in California. Kenny Williams got into Stanford before the advent of Proposition 48, and then only bothered to stay for 1 semester...

 

Just something to think about when evaluating this front office's results.

 

 

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QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:47 PM)
Yup.

 

We were promised a return that would "blow us away."

 

f*** Giolito's subjective "ranking," maybe him sucking out loud (in the little boy NL, mind you) is why he's available. And maybe Robles' measly .741 OPS in his third professional season is why the Nats want to sucker this front office.

 

 

Sounds good, I'll get the gasoline ready, you get the oily rags.

 

Holy s***. Mind blown. "Sucking out loud" in a handful of Major League starts at age 21 really makes players super sh*** these days. Read a damn scouting report on Robles then report back to us.

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QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 11:51 PM)
Two thoughts before I call it a night.

 

1. It's not a matter of if anymore but pretty much when and for who. Sale getting traded is a big deal and I think it signals a full (not a half ass) rebuild. I won't believe it until Sale is officially traded but this would represent a huge organizational change for the Sox that many of us never thought they would choose.

 

2. Regardless of who the Sox land for Sale, it won't fix everything. There will be many more trades made to restock the system and this organization needs to start drafting better and developing players in house if they ever want to have a team that is a contender every year.

 

It won't fix anything, as the problems stem from player development, specifically positional players, and you can probably add in to that scouting also.

 

Trading Sale and not landing a teams at least top two prospects is an epic fking fail IMO

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Giolito and Robles is a really great start, but it's how the trade is rounded out that will really make my opinion of it. Trying not to get too high or too low on it because this is the meat and potatoes of the deal, there is still dessert to be decided upon.

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