caulfield12 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2018&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=33,58&filter=&players= Only six position players above a 1.0 WAR at age 33 and above... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 7 hours ago, caulfield12 said: https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2018&month=0&season1=2018&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=33,58&filter=&players= Only six position players above a 1.0 WAR at age 33 and above... Heyman proposes this trade: "Jose Abreu and Nate Jones to the Rockies for Ryan McMahon and Riley Pint. The Rockies may need a little more firepower to become a true threat, and Ian Desmond can play anywhere. McMahon is better than he showed early, and Pint’s slipped a bit on their prospect list." I don't love this deal at all for the White Sox. McMahon hasn't shown much in 50 mlb games and Pint has arguably been a disaster of a draft pick for the Rockies. I would 100% need Welker to be in a Rockies package for me to consider it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 22 minutes ago, steveno89 said: Heyman proposes this trade: "Jose Abreu and Nate Jones to the Rockies for Ryan McMahon and Riley Pint. The Rockies may need a little more firepower to become a true threat, and Ian Desmond can play anywhere. McMahon is better than he showed early, and Pint’s slipped a bit on their prospect list." I don't love this deal at all for the White Sox. McMahon hasn't shown much in 50 mlb games and Pint has arguably been a disaster of a draft pick for the Rockies. I would 100% need Welker to be in a Rockies package for me to consider it. No fucking thanks. I wouldn’t do that deal for Abreu let alone including Nate Jones in as a bonus. I need Hoffman & McMahon at minimum to even consider trading Abreu to the Rockies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 34 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: No fucking thanks. I wouldn’t do that deal for Abreu let alone including Nate Jones in as a bonus. I need Hoffman & McMahon at minimum to even consider trading Abreu to the Rockies. I would reject that offer as well. I think we would want more than the Rockies would be willing to give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 40 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: No fucking thanks. I wouldn’t do that deal for Abreu let alone including Nate Jones in as a bonus. I need Hoffman & McMahon at minimum to even consider trading Abreu to the Rockies. Totally agree. That isn't close to enough. I would have no interest in Riley Pint anymore. McMahon plus two guys and their Competitive Balance pick and we can talk about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 McMahon, Welker and Lambert would make me stop and think really hard about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Totally agree. That isn't close to enough. I would have no interest in Riley Pint anymore. McMahon plus two guys and their Competitive Balance pick and we can talk about it. I still have interest in Pint but he needs to be the 2nd or 3rd best player in the deal. The three guys I'd target for a deal would be Welker and Vilade plus Montano. If they want Jones they probably have to sub Montano for Pint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Totally agree. That isn't close to enough. I would have no interest in Riley Pint anymore. McMahon plus two guys and their Competitive Balance pick and we can talk about it. I'm not even Sold on McMahon; If its straight up Abreu + Jones, my expectation would be something along these lines: Welker, Lambert, Bowden. Abreu's surplus value is roughly 9.1M by the time he gets traded this year and not taking into account scarcity and trade deadline inflation, if you predict a 3-3.5fWAR season next year and an ARB salary of 18M next year his surplus value is roughly 10M and when you factor in a likely compensation pick(#31-35 or #76-78) you're looking at 17M in value as well; seeing how the padres just paid roughly 7+M for the twins 74th pick this year. Add it all up and Abreu is worth roughly 36.1M in surplus value when you factor in salary and qualifying offer pick, and again this doesn't take into account the scarcity for power bats at the trade deadline an inflation. If you go by point of Pittsburgh's updated surplus value that is nearly the value of Welker & Lambert. Add in Jones and his performance this year as well as contract and we should get an interesting 45FV piece like Bowden. The deal purposed above would be "fair market value" add in the deadline and it wouldn't surprise me to see the sox extract more value especially if there is a bidding war between the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros and not taking into account any other factors like injuries or a decline in production from someone like the Nat's Matt Adams. It gets even more interesting if the Rockies want to shed dead payroll in anticipation of the next two free agent classes and trying to lock up Nolan Arenado. Ian Desmond has roughly 52M remaining on his contract by the trade deadline Brendan Rodgers is worth roughly $65.6M, its possible a deal like this could line up. Abreu + Jones for Desmond + Rodgers, + Welker + Bowden + Daniel Montano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 McMahon has been hitting better since coming back to the majors, but they have him at 2B right now. I could see the Rockies try Hanley at 1B for the league minimum for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, soxfan2014 said: McMahon has been hitting better since coming back to the majors, but they have him at 2B right now. I could see the Rockies try Hanley at 1B for the league minimum for a while. We would get a much better package from them not forcing them to trade from the ML roster. The prospects I'd be interested in are Rodgers (not happening), Pint, Welker, and Montano, and Vilade the rest of the guys are sort of meh. They either have middling stuff or are old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y2chae Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Abreu alone should bring back 2 top 100 prospects, so I don't agree with that Heyman proposal at all. Mark Teixeira was traded midseason with another year of control left and he brought back 3 top 100 guys. Teams are more conservative about keeping prospects today so I would say Abreu's fair value is at least 2 in the back end of the top 100. Pint right now is a reclamation project, the Rockies have no had success in developing him. I'd take him as a throw in but his value is minimal right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 I also am not a fan of Pint anymore.. But this is a rock solid offer in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 4 hours ago, steveno89 said: Heyman proposes this trade: "Jose Abreu and Nate Jones to the Rockies for Ryan McMahon and Riley Pint. The Rockies may need a little more firepower to become a true threat, and Ian Desmond can play anywhere. McMahon is better than he showed early, and Pint’s slipped a bit on their prospect list." I don't love this deal at all for the White Sox. McMahon hasn't shown much in 50 mlb games and Pint has arguably been a disaster of a draft pick for the Rockies. I would 100% need Welker to be in a Rockies package for me to consider it. No thanks. McMahon's K issues came back in full force this year, and Pint has been nothing if not terrible and consistently so, and he's injured. McMahon can be a piece, but that package is WAY too risky to trade Abreu for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 21 minutes ago, y2chae said: Abreu alone should bring back 2 top 100 prospects, so I don't agree with that Heyman proposal at all. Mark Teixeira was traded midseason with another year of control left and he brought back 3 top 100 guys. Teams are more conservative about keeping prospects today so I would say Abreu's fair value is at least 2 in the back end of the top 100. Pint right now is a reclamation project, the Rockies have no had success in developing him. I'd take him as a throw in but his value is minimal right now. He's a guy just outside or inside the top 100 for me. Not a headliner but when you look at their farm they have some decent young hitters but their pitchers are not exciting at all. Pint is the only guy with really good stuff. McMahon for me is sort of a bad guy to target first he's on the roster and the Rockies would probably prefer not to move him. Two I honestly like Welker better. I probably prefer Vilade too. If they are keeping Rodgers Vilade is expendable. Neither Vilade and Welker are on the top 100 right now but they will be on the midseason probably when it comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 25 minutes ago, cjgalloway said: I also am not a fan of Pint anymore.. But this is a rock solid offer in my opinion I don't understand this at all kid is 20. The injury worries me more then the results. His stuff is still electric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautox Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 10 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: He's a guy just outside or inside the top 100 for me. Not a headliner but when you look at their farm they have some decent young hitters but their pitchers are not exciting at all. Pint is the only guy with really good stuff. McMahon for me is sort of a bad guy to target first he's on the roster and the Rockies would probably prefer not to move him. Two I honestly like Welker better. I probably prefer Vilade too. If they are keeping Rodgers Vilade is expendable. Neither Vilade and Welker are on the top 100 right now but they will be on the midseason probably when it comes out. Welkeris top 100 right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, y2chae said: Abreu alone should bring back 2 top 100 prospects, so I don't agree with that Heyman proposal at all. Mark Teixeira was traded midseason with another year of control left and he brought back 3 top 100 guys. Teams are more conservative about keeping prospects today so I would say Abreu's fair value is at least 2 in the back end of the top 100. Pint right now is a reclamation project, the Rockies have no had success in developing him. I'd take him as a throw in but his value is minimal right now. The Teixeira trade is over 10 years old now, and not really applicable to how players in non-premium positions are evaluated these days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 39 minutes ago, beautox said: Welkeris top 100 right now Ah my browsing history was directing me to 2017 rankings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 If we have to trade Abreu, you get a haul in return. Some folks on here tend to devalue their own. The guy is a consistent stat stuffing machine. I mean, I'm serious. Maybe not as much as a Sale, but close to it. Don't devalue Jose Abreu just because his age is becoming unattractive to many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Greg, I thought you were the one who argued he might be 2-3 years older than his listed age. How would that INCREASE his value? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Just now, caulfield12 said: Greg, I thought you were the one who argued he might be 2-3 years older than his listed age. How would that INCREASE his value? Good news. He's staying according to this Q and A https://www.mlb.com/news/white-sox-likely-holding-on-to-jose-abreu/c-279137072?tid=218325368 As far as your question, I was simply quoting a poster on soxtalk who said he might be older. I never said I believed it. I don't know what to think of those reports. But the Q and A agrees you need some veterans to lead the rebuilt team. Jose A is staying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, greg775 said: Good news. He's staying according to this Q and A https://www.mlb.com/news/white-sox-likely-holding-on-to-jose-abreu/c-279137072?tid=218325368 As far as your question, I was simply quoting a poster on soxtalk who said he might be older. I never said I believed it. I don't know what to think of those reports. But the Q and A agrees you need some veterans to lead the rebuilt team. Jose A is staying. Yeah not buying it I listened to Hahn (not a beat guy) and he said in the offseason he doesn't match with the timeline. Of course much depends on the offers but a decent offer and I think he's gone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 50 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: Yeah not buying it I listened to Hahn (not a beat guy) and he said in the offseason he doesn't match with the timeline. Of course much depends on the offers but a decent offer and I think he's gone What do the beat writers in Lima and Cuzco have to say on this topic...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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