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Hahn expects aggressive offseason

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1 minute ago, mqr said:

I totally get negative opinions of Jerry n co causing people to scrutinize every move, but were moaning about things that haven't happened yet.

And the best part is it’s all because we didn’t sign Manny Machado to one of the five largest deals in baseball history. Despite the fact we offered him $31M+ per over eight years, many believe the White Sox will never sign a quality free agent in the future.  If people actually believe that, then they are simply not being rational anymore.  All but two or three free agents will get deals for under $100M.  For those citing history, we’ve spent $60M on Abreu, $50M on Robert, & $65M on a Danks extension.  To think we won’t go up to $100M for a player when we’re sitting on $45M in payroll commitments next year is insanity.

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1 hour ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Why do people keep thinking this?

They are going to have a very young and very cheap team next year.  Nova and to a lesser extent Herrera are place holders for a team that was never going to compete this year.

Just because we weren't competing this year doesn't mean we can't make moves to improve the team for next year. That's why they went after Machado to begin with. If guys make sense for our window, we should be trying to bring them in. I think we brought in Herrera in Hope's that he could turn it around. Nova was an innings eater. It'll be interesting to see who we bring in this offseason. 

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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Moaning about and assuming they will not be able to sign quality players in FA is entirely justified based on their previous offseasons, particularly the last one. I for one don't believe at all that this organization will put >>$200 million anywhere close to the table as an offer for Cole, and we'll see if they prove me wrong.

But what about $80M or less for Wheeler, Ozuna, or Grandal?

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7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

But what about $80M or less for Wheeler, Ozuna, or Grandal?

I'll bet right now that if we look at those 3 next year at this time, at least 1 of them will have made their team say "boy I wish we hadn't signed that deal" - the mid level of the free agent market is full of busts, like a rate of >50%, so even if they sign them it's hard to know that they're getting "quality players". 

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7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

But what about $80M or less for Wheeler, Ozuna, or Grandal?

This team needs a vet starter. with playoff experience. I want Cole but would settle for Stras or Bum. Grandal and Ozuna work if you get your pitcher. 

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6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I'll bet right now that if we look at those 3 next year at this time, at least 1 of them will have made their team say "boy I wish we hadn't signed that deal" - the mid level of the free agent market is full of busts, like a rate of >50%, so even if they sign them it's hard to know that they're getting "quality players". 

I would say the same is more or less true of Cole, he's more likely to be quality, but 200 mil is a lot to live up to. 

Edited by mqr

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48 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Yes I do.  They should not be outbid by anybody.  No team that is competing or close to competing has the same financial flexibility that we do.   

This is exactly what we said at this time last year. And then they proceeded to fail miserably.  

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12 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Just because we weren't competing this year doesn't mean we can't make moves to improve the team for next year. That's why they went after Machado to begin with. If guys make sense for our window, we should be trying to bring them in. I think we brought in Herrera in Hope's that he could turn it around. Nova was an innings eater. It'll be interesting to see who we bring in this offseason. 

Herrera signed one of the top 5-7 contracts given out to relievers last offseason, depending on how you count a couple guys. That's not a "Turn it around" contract, that's a "we think you're still really good" contract. 

Which is another reason for people to whine, because that's disconcerting. 

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11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And the best part is it’s all because we didn’t sign Manny Machado to one of the five largest deals in baseball history. Despite the fact we offered him $31M+ per over eight years, many believe the White Sox will never sign a quality free agent in the future.  If people actually believe that, then they are simply not being rational anymore.  All but two or three free agents will get deals for under $100M.  For those citing history, we’ve spent $60M on Abreu, $50M on Robert, & $65M on a Danks extension.  To think we won’t go up to $100M for a player when we’re sitting on $45M in payroll commitments next year is insanity.

What the White Sox offered Machado was, at the time, the third richest contract in the history of major league baseball. Obviously it didn't happen.  But to think they're just going to sit on that money is now is such a funny take.  

Unfortunately, most people won't believe until they see it, and even if the Sox do some damage in free agency this year, unless they sign a Cole, Strasburg or Rendon, a lot of the usual suspects will still being saying it.  

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Just now, ChiSox59 said:

What the White Sox offered Machado was, at the time, the third richest contract in the history of major league baseball. Obviously it didn't happen.  But to think they're just going to sit on that money is now is such a funny take.  

Unfortunately, most people won't believe until they see it, and even if the Sox do some damage in free agency this year, unless they sign a Cole, Strasburg or Rendon, a lot of the usual suspects will still being saying it.  

And it was also a request for a huge discount from his realistic value at the same time. 

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Herrera signed one of the top 5-7 contracts given out to relievers last offseason, depending on how you count a couple guys. That's not a "Turn it around" contract, that's a "we think you're still really good" contract. 

Which is another reason for people to whine, because that's disconcerting. 

I actually think we were that incompetent hoping that he'd turn it around and foolishly paid him. 

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Just now, Balta1701 said:

And it was also a request for a huge discount from his realistic value at the same time. 

More than 28 other clubs offered him.  

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13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And the best part is it’s all because we didn’t sign Manny Machado to one of the five largest deals in baseball history. Despite the fact we offered him $31M+ per over eight years, many believe the White Sox will never sign a quality free agent in the future.  If people actually believe that, then they are simply not being rational anymore.  All but two or three free agents will get deals for under $100M.  For those citing history, we’ve spent $60M on Abreu, $50M on Robert, & $65M on a Danks extension.  To think we won’t go up to $100M for a player when we’re sitting on $45M in payroll commitments next year is insanity.

That’s still far from $200+ million for a pitcher and $300+ million for a position player (Rendon won’t get nearly that much due to age and injury history)...and reported offers and deals signed are two quite distinct things.

Anything over $75 million for one player would be shocking because this time around none of the free agents are 26 years old and in their primes.

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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Herrera signed one of the top 5-7 contracts given out to relievers last offseason, depending on how you count a couple guys. That's not a "Turn it around" contract, that's a "we think you're still really good" contract. 

Which is another reason for people to whine, because that's disconcerting. 

Greg could have volunteered in the front office and opined...”please compare his stuff from 2014-15 to present day and past overuse in KC.”   Not hard to foresee that he was on the downside.

If you’re betting on rebounds, go after someone like Carl Edwards, Jr., that won’t cost much more than a Tilson, Engel or Cordell.  Find four guys like that and one will have a Kahnle-like season and three will stumble.   Still better risk that $15-20 million on “established” veteran setup guys.

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This offseason is going to see teams that sat out last offseason due to budget issues be a lot more aggressive. 

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20 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

More than 28 other clubs offered him.  

LOL - It’s not a game of horseshoes or hand grenades.

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Just now, Juschill said:

LOL - It’s not a game of horseshoes or hand grenades.

No shit.  No participation trophies in free agency.  But I also don't have my head so deep in the negativity sand that I don't think those dollars won't be deployed elsewhere.  

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1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

No shit.  No participation trophies in free agency.  But I also don't have my head so deep in the negativity sand that I don't think those dollars won't be deployed elsewhere.  

Those last eight words of your second sentence are what many of us are afraid of...allocated, but not altogether wisely.  

Edited by caulfield12
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4 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

What the White Sox offered Machado was, at the time, the third richest contract in the history of major league baseball. Obviously it didn't happen.  But to think they're just going to sit on that money is now is such a funny take.  

Unfortunately, most people won't believe until they see it, and even if the Sox do some damage in free agency this year, unless they sign a Cole, Strasburg or Rendon, a lot of the usual suspects will still being saying it.  

In the end, it is not who they sign but how they produce.  Whether this winter they sign Cole or grab somebody off waivers, next year they cannot afford to be struggling to stay afloat at the trade deadline. 

Edited by SCCWS
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3 hours ago, ptatc said:

Yes it can. If the the prospects produce as expected they will all become expensive in 5-7 years.

Giolito and moncada in 4, Jimenez and kopech in 5, cease in 6, madrigal and Robert in 7.

I would prefer to pay the players from in the organization who you know and know the medical history as opposed to an aging  pitcher in the 7 and 8 years of a contract.

I think the focus should be on what's supposed to be our prime window of contention, which is the next 5-7 years.  That's when a premier starter like Cole would greatly enhance our chances to succeed during that window.  

We can worry about post-window compensation for any aging pitcher and what our core prospects might cost after 2024.   

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3 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Why do people keep thinking this?

They are going to have a very young and very cheap team next year.  Nova and to a lesser extent Herrera are place holders for a team that was never going to compete this year.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/largest-contract-each-mlb-team.html

But yes, keep thinking Charlie Brown will kick that football.  I know he will fall on his ass.

If you bring up Machado, the simple fact of the matter is this, they offered him a contract that they knew he wasn't going to sign.  Used that offer to sell to the fans that "the money will be spent".

They really need new ownership.

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51 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

In the end, it is now who they sign but how they produce.  Whether this winter they sign Cole or grab somebody off waivers, next year they cannot afford to be struggling to stay afloat at the trade deadline. 

Regardless of what RH does this offseason, I think that with the amount of stuff coming up from the minor leagues and the amount of money to spend...an entirely fair thing to ask for is "Competitive baseball in September". Don't even have to actually win the Wild Card, but at least should have their team name on the lists shown of the handful of teams that have a shot at it.

If we don't get that next year then I'm not sure when we ever will. 

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8 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/largest-contract-each-mlb-team.html

But yes, keep thinking Charlie Brown will kick that football.  I know he will fall on his ass.

If you bring up Machado, the simple fact of the matter is this, they offered him a contract that they knew he wasn't going to sign.  Used that offer to sell to the fans that "the money will be spent".

They really need new ownership.

Lol...absolutely no goodwill came out of the Machado miss.  All it did is make our fanbase question their inability to spend even more-so.  

The reality is our front office actually thought $250M with options could get it done.  Now, either they’re completely incompetent to act that cocky all offseason knowing that was their cap or they thought Lozano was bluffing at the end with SD and botched it completely.  I lean towards the latter because it’s almost impossible to think Hahn would swing his dick around so much if he knew they were capped at $250M.  At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter because they didn’t get it done in an incredibly friendly market for a club of our stature.

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15 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/largest-contract-each-mlb-team.html

But yes, keep thinking Charlie Brown will kick that football.  I know he will fall on his ass.

If you bring up Machado, the simple fact of the matter is this, they offered him a contract that they knew he wasn't going to sign.  Used that offer to sell to the fans that "the money will be spent".

They really need new ownership.

When was the last time the Sox had this young and good of a core?  I'm 30, not in my lifetime.  

The Machado thing was a PR nightmare, they aren't going to come up empty handed.

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1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said:

When was the last time the Sox had this young and good of a core?  I'm 30, not in my lifetime.  

They supposedly had the #1 system in baseball around 2000 also and they already had Ordonez, Lee, and Thomas on the roster, but for my money I'll take that early 90's team. That sucker was loaded. 

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