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More "Hahnspeak" on Robert/Madrigal/Collins coming up

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5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

IMO, the drop dead date to call up Robert & Madrigal was August 1st.  After that, I just don’t believe the benefit outweighs the cost of an extra year of team control.  Both guys will likely be fatigued come September and would face a ton of garbage pitching due to rosters expanding.  I just don’t view that as vital development experience.  

As for 2020, the Sox have 13 games in their first 16 days.  I wouldn’t be shocked if there are few rain-outs in the mix, so we’re talking about missing 11 to 12 games most likely.  While it would definitely suck not having them to start the season, I still don’t think it’s worth losing a year of team control in 2026.

 

Oh I get the logic I just don't agree with it. If that's whiny I can live with it. It's not like I expect the Sox to sign some great FA's anyway to put us in a position to make the playoffs . But if they do I'll be doubly bothered about the service time logic and even more so if Robert and Madrigal struggle which basically doubles the games for adjustment time since it's 2 players missing those games.

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1 hour ago, fathom said:

Why would anyone still want Robert called up this season?

Because they complain regardless of what occurs. It’s absolute nonsense.

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46 minutes ago, jenksycat said:

There is 0 reason why Collins is not the everyday DH at this point.  

This I agree with. I’d definitely have both Collins and Mendick playing everyday by now. 

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1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Because they complain regardless of what occurs. It’s absolute nonsense.

Not true. I pick and choose carefully what I complain about. I don't think i am viewed as a complainer . I just have reasons I think sustained success is a mirage and more emphasis was put on winning asap and less emphasis put on 2026.

I also have to question why it's the people who want them up who are complaining when I could say the same about your view but I choose to acknowledge both sides have valid reasons for wanting things the way they do.

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23 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

This I agree with. I’d definitely have both Collins and Mendick playing everyday by now. 

I sound like a broken record at this point, but Collins should replace Castillo, Mendick should replace Yolmer, and Mercedes should replace Skole.

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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/goes-decision-white-sox-theyve-232012655.html

"He's doing fantastic," Hahn said Thursday. "Obviously you've seen the numbers. There are certainly some elements of his game that they're still fine tuning, they're still working on. But he's obviously an extremely talented young man and one that we're very excited to have here for the next several years.

"We have made no decisions on the ultimate (September) call-up list or the ultimate timing of the call-up list."

 

"You can't replicate what it's like to be here at the big league level," Renteria said. "One of the things you're doing, first of all, is the emotional effect it makes on you when you get up here. The other is talent and the way talent executes.

"You get to see exactly what it's about, and when you go into an offseason, you have a better understanding of what you're preparing to do and where you're preparing to do it. Everybody will get their time when they get here and understand what it's all about."

 

"I think he's still learning some valuable lessons at Triple-A, I do," Hahn said. "There are a few things you can't replicate at the minor league level.

"The speed of the game, the preparation, the adjustments, a lot of that has to be learned at the big league level. But currently, as we sit here today on Aug. 22, there is still much that these guys are learning down there. Even being in the pennant race alone, even what they're doing on a nightly basis, the battle to try to get into the postseason is a benefit to them.

"Eventually, you balance that, about what they're going to benefit from Chicago versus going through that, and make a decision."

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5 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

The way Collins was handled was the exact opposite of putting him in a position to succeed.

Collins wouldn't have hit during his call-up if you threw a beach ball at him underhanded. He was helpless. 

You cannot help the "helpless". There's only so much 4 PA's per day can do for a player. There is a line with this stuff. It's not going to magically turn a guy who slashed .077/.226/.192 over 31 of them (with 14 K's) into a good hitter. Acting like the White Sox cheated Collins somehow for not handing an .077 hitter a full-time DH role (and a share of the catching role) who K's nearly 50% of the time, is just silliness. That player either ain't going to make it or he needs to go back down for a total overhaul of his swing.

It looks like Collins is having some success with the latter, which is good. However, this wasn't the case of a player who needed PA's. All you had to do was LOOK at the guy trying to hit. He looked more overmatched than a lot of pitchers trying to hit in the National League. The guy had NO chance. 

Most importantly, him being up here was doing HIM zero good. I think that's the key. He needed a swing overhaul. You don't do that mid-season at the big league level after 31 horrendous career PA's. 

Hopefully he comes back up and his new approach works out. I'd love to see it. God knows Reed or Skole ain't the answer either. 

 

Edited by Richie

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6 hours ago, fathom said:

Why would anyone still want Robert called up this season?

Because we enjoy watching baseball, and want to see him play. Theres actually "value" in that. 

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7 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Oh I get the logic I just don't agree with it. If that's whiny I can live with it. It's not like I expect the Sox to sign some great FA's anyway to put us in a position to make the playoffs . But if they do I'll be doubly bothered about the service time logic and even more so if Robert and Madrigal struggle which basically doubles the games for adjustment time since it's 2 players missing those games.

Your view isn’t whiny.  From what I can gather, you simply believe the 40 or so games they could get by calling them soon is important for their development and puts them in a better position to be contributors in 2020.  That’s a fair point of view, just one I don’t personally agree with.

As for the whining, I’m talking about the SoxMachine guys (Pnoles & Josh Nelson in particular) who constantly complain about service time manipulation and rip the front office for not calling these guys up.  Like I said, a very strong argument can be made for calling them up now to better your odds of being competitive in 2020, but demanding they be promoted due to ethical considerations (sorry, but all teams play the service time game) or simply because they’re bored (which I think is the actual culprit) is both stupid & short-sighted.

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2 hours ago, Roofshot said:

Because we enjoy watching baseball, and want to see him play. Theres actually "value" in that. 

@CaliSoxFanViaSWside this is exactly what I’m talking about.  I wish the on-field product was better too, but I’m definitely not calling them up right now for short-term entertainment purposes.  

Nothing personal @Roofshot, but this is just a crazy line of thinking and the value you get out of watching a slightly better team miss the playoffs in 2019 in worth absolutely nothing.

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What are september callup rules this year? Just a 26th man roster?

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13 minutes ago, bmags said:

What are september callup rules this year? Just a 26th man roster?

Believe its still 40 this year. Next yeat is when the roster changes take place (25 to 26 players, 40 to 28 players in September).

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2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

@CaliSoxFanViaSWside this is exactly what I’m talking about.  I wish the on-field product was better too, but I’m definitely not calling them up right now for short-term entertainment purposes.  

Nothing personal @Roofshot, but this is just a crazy line of thinking and the value you get out of watching a slightly better team miss the playoffs in 2019 in worth absolutely nothing.

Yep, it’s either 40 games against other September call-ups or a full season 7 years from now when he’s hopefully a superstar.

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15 minutes ago, fathom said:

Yep, it’s either 40 games against other September call-ups or a full season 7 years from now when he’s hopefully a superstar.

This is kind of overblown . Teams are still in pennant races and want to still win. Plenty of teams play their regular starting rotation down the stretch. It's very debatable how much other call ups, especially pitching, we'll be playing against.

I'm not sure but didn't you think they should 've been up earlier ?  @Chicago White Sox also mentioned something about August 1 being the time they should ve been brought up. The more I think about it it just seems pretty arbitrary to say they should ve been brought up a month ago so they could play against ML pitching and gain the experience of playing 70 or so games but shouldn't be brought up now because it's only 40 games of experience. That to me is the most curious take of all.

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4 minutes ago, Orlando said:

 

 

Nice to see this addressed by Fegan even if I can't read it, Just by what it says in the title is exactly what I've been getting at. The Sox aren't saying 2020 is a contending year and probably don't have a lot of confidence then that they will sign impactful Free Agents otherwise calling Robert and Madrigal up wouldve made a lot of sense. Whereas here many are expecting the Sox to contend but still want them kept down.

If I am wrong about the contend of the article based on the title I'm sure someone will tell me.

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1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

I call bs. They will be active in free agency.

Fegan will always write with the more negative angle because the Twitter folks will eat it up 

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Just now, Jose Abreu said:

Fegan will always write with the more negative angle because the Twitter folks will eat it up 

Wait so you are saying Fegan doesn't actually believe what he writes now and is just a shill for hits? That would severely tarnish his rep as a very knowledgeable if not the most knowledgeable Sox writer out there. Do you say this because the opinion in the article goes against your own personal opinion ?

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Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Wait so you are saying Fegan doesn't actually believe what he writes now and is just a shill for hits? That would severely tarnish his rep as a very knowledgeable if not the most knowledgeable Sox writer out there. Do you say this because the opinion in the article goes against your own personal opinion ?

No, I'm saying he believes it but he has just always been extremely pessimistic. He'll hear a quote and spin it in the most negative way possible. It's just his writing style

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8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

But how successful and impactful will the players they do sign be ?

Sorry. I meant as in it's just bs as in a reason to keep him down, but they believe the core guys are in place right now and they will add to it to be competitive. Along with Robert and Madrigal early next year.

Edited by soxfan2014

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7 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Sorry. I meant as in it's just bs as in a reason to keep him down, but they believe the core guys are in place right now and they will add to it to be competitive. Along with Robert and Madrigal early next year.

Oh gotcha . I was starting to feel alone here thinking I was the only one who still wanted them( Robert and Madrigal along with Yermin Collins Mendick) up asap. I know it's still against what a lot of knowledgeable posters here think but in my own defense I think I am just as knowledgeable and it's nice to see my opinion backed up by Fegan when some of the guys who want them (Robert and Madrigal) kept down are very arrogant in their views like it's the only smart thing to do.

I do know Parkman also believes they should be up too.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

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