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southsider2k5

Jerry Owens goal 65 SBs

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QUOTE(FlaCWS @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 01:50 PM)
'

 

I really don't understand all these people saying Owens should be the 4th OF. Do you really think a winning team can have Nick Swisher in CF? I don't. I want Owens out there every day because he can chase balls in the gap. Swisher will let them drop for doubles. Whatever offensive issues Owens has will be made up for by the balls he chases down. I want him starting - and batting 9th - every day. Let Quentin come off the bench this year and take over for Dye next year.

Have you ever even watched Swisher in CF or Owens for that matter? Owens is nothing special out there, he's fast sure but he provides no other defensive ability aside form his closing speed. From what I've seen of Swisher he's not that bad out there, pretty close to average with a damn good arm which will allow him to hold hitters to singles on balls hit softly in front of him, unlike another OF on the roster who possesses a puss arm. When you factor in the projected difference in offensive production between Quentin and Owens suddenly the nominal difference between Swisher and Owens in center doesn't look so bad.

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QUOTE(FlaCWS @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 01:50 PM)
'

 

I really don't understand all these people saying Owens should be the 4th OF. Do you really think a winning team can have Nick Swisher in CF? I don't. I want Owens out there every day because he can chase balls in the gap. Swisher will let them drop for doubles. Whatever offensive issues Owens has will be made up for by the balls he chases down. I want him starting - and batting 9th - every day. Let Quentin come off the bench this year and take over for Dye next year.

 

If you are so worried about defense and dont care about offense you would be better off having Anderson running balls down in CF than Owens.

 

Andersons D >>>>>>> Owens plus Anderson can throw a ball to the infield without having it cut 2 times.

 

Quentins O + Swisher in CF = > Owens and his rag arm running around CF.

 

 

 

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QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 02:01 PM)
If you are so worried about defense and dont care about offense you would be better off having Anderson running balls down in CF than Owens.

 

Andersons D >>>>>>> Owens plus Anderson can throw a ball to the infield without having it cut 2 times.

 

Quentins O + Swisher in CF = > Owens and his rag arm running around CF.

 

Bingo.

 

If you don't care about your CF producing offense, put BA out there. Owens will give you a little better defense (maybe) than Swisher and much worse offense.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 01:56 PM)
Have you ever even watched Swisher in CF or Owens for that matter? Owens is nothing special out there, he's fast sure but he provides no other defensive ability aside form his closing speed. From what I've seen of Swisher he's not that bad out there, pretty close to average with a damn good arm which will allow him to hold hitters to singles on balls hit softly in front of him, unlike another OF on the roster who possesses a puss arm. When you factor in the projected difference in offensive production between Quentin and Owens suddenly the nominal difference between Swisher and Owens in center doesn't look so bad.

 

If he Swisher has a plus arm, that means the Sox would have 3 plus arms in the outfield (assuming Quentin is in fact the left fielder). That would be the first time in a long time that has happened.

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QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 02:56 PM)
If he Swisher has a plus arm, that means the Sox would have 3 plus arms in the outfield (assuming Quentin is in fact the left fielder). That would be the first time in a long time that has happened.

From Merkin's column yesterday:

Ozzie Guillen explained Tuesday how Nick Swisher primarily will play center during Spring Training. Guillen also doesn't plan to move around Swisher too much in the field during the course of the regular season, even if both Owens and Quentin are getting playing time.

 

"It's not easy to move everywhere, especially if you're going to play every day," Guillen said. "Like I always say, you're not going to bring a Gold Glove center fielder. But he played center field before. He played center field for the Oakland A's, so why couldn't he play for us.

 

"To me, it's harder to play center field in Oakland than to play in Chicago. In Chicago, a ball hit over your head is a home run. In Oakland, you've got to go get it. He did a good job there and I have a lot of confidence in him."

 

That has to make Quentin the favorite for the LF job.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 03:03 PM)
From Merkin's column yesterday:

That has to make Quentin the favorite for the LF job.

 

One can only hope so for the sake of the offense.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 02:56 PM)
Have you ever even watched Swisher in CF or Owens for that matter?

 

Haven't really seen Swisher, mostly because the A's rarely played him there (for a reason). There aren't many guys who are projected to be First-basemen playing Center.

 

Yes I've seen Owens. He is no Torii Hunter but he's better than anything we have. Forget Anderson, he is done with this organization. And he is way more a liability at the plate than Owens. He can barely make contact. Owens batting 9th should be no problem at all.

 

Bottom line, defense up the middle is, you know, kind of important. Didn't the Red Sox have Coco playing CF for most of the season until Ellsbury eventually came up? Coco's not much of a hitter but that team did pretty well with him in there. We'll see what happens with Swisher in CF every day. I'm not looking forward to it.

Edited by FlaCWS

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QUOTE(FlaCWS @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 03:34 PM)
Haven't really seen Swisher, mostly because the A's rarely played him there (for a reason). There aren't many guys who are projected to be First-basemen playing Center.

 

Yes I've seen Owens. He is no Torii Hunter but he's better than anything we have. Forget Anderson, he is done with this organization. And he is way more a liability at the plate than Owens. He can barely make contact. Owens batting 9th should be no problem at all.

 

Bottom line, defense up the middle is, you know, kind of important. Didn't the Red Sox have Coco playing CF for most of the season until Ellsbury eventually came up? Coco's not much of a hitter but that team did pretty well with him in there. We'll see what happens with Swisher in CF every day. I'm not looking forward to it.

 

The only thing that Jerry Owens is better than Brian Anderson at is stealing bases. The inexplainable infatuation with a speed guy batting leadoff will kill this team.

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QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 03:39 PM)
You realize CF is where Swisher played the most at in 2007, correct? Not really sure what you classify "rarely" as, but I don't think thats it.

 

You sure do have a strong opinion of Swisher for NEVER seeing him play in CF....

 

You mean a third of the season and the most games of anyone on the Athletics doesn't classify as rarely?

 

Preferably, the Athletics would have played Swisher in RF, but that's because Mark Kotsay is a fantastic CFer. He was injured much of last year, and is now in Atlanta.

 

I think people really underestimate Swisher, and I think he is in for a monster season.

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QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 04:12 PM)
You mean a third of the season and the most games of anyone on the Athletics doesn't classify as rarely?

 

Preferably, the Athletics would have played Swisher in RF, but that's because Mark Kotsay is a fantastic CFer. He was injured much of last year, and is now in Atlanta.

 

I think people really underestimate Swisher, and I think he is in for a monster season.

 

If he can start fast, we Sox fans will take to him real quick. And then, look out. I think he's going to be a cornerstone for this franchise for many years.

 

Owens will be dealt at the deadline for the second coming of Melido Perez.

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QUOTE(Vance Law @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 06:24 PM)
I've asked this before. I believe I was told that there is a stat called Total Average that incorporates steals/caught stealings, but I've still never seen Pods or anyone else's numbers for this. I'd be interested in seeing a stat that can incorporate batting, basestealing, and base running.

 

Why not just use EqA? I think that may be what you're looking for (his EqA last year was .233 where -- IIRC -- .260 is average). It doesn't take into account what you go on to mention later, i.e. how successful a guy is at going from first to third, second to home, but I don't think any stat will do that. I think it's fair to assume that if you have as much speed as Owens does -- and as long as you're not a total moron on the basepaths -- you're going to rate pretty well in non-SB 'baserunning'.

 

Moving back for a second, the question would be whether Owens advantages in his glove (in CF) and baserunning cancel out Quentin's bat. I say no, although if Quentin hits like Anderson did in 2006, there's certainly a case to be made.

Edited by CWSGuy406

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QUOTE(Texsox @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 10:20 AM) I'm certain some stat head has done this, but for example, what would have been Pods Slugging % if you credited him with a double on all his SBs and took away any singles when he was caught? By brain starts to hurt figuring that out, but I think it would be interesting.

<table x:str border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=668 style='border-collapse:

collapse;table-layout:fixed;width:500pt'>

<col width=80 span=3 style='width:60pt'>

<col class=xl24 width=107 span=4 style='mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:

3043;width:80pt'>

<tr height=18 style='height:13.5pt'>

<td height=18 width=80 style='height:13.5pt;width:60pt'></td>

<td width=80 style='width:60pt'></td>

<td width=80 style='width:60pt'></td>

<td class=xl24 width=107 style='width:80pt'></td>

<td class=xl24 width=107 style='width:80pt'></td>

<td class=xl24 width=107 style='width:80pt'></td>

<td class=xl24 width=107 style='width:80pt'></td>

</tr>

<tr height=18 style='height:13.5pt'>

<td height=18 colspan=3 style='height:13.5pt;mso-ignore:colspan'></td>

<td colspan=4 class=xl24 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>

</tr>

<tr height=18 style='height:13.5pt'>

<td height=18 colspan=3 style='height:13.5pt;mso-ignore:colspan'></td>

<td colspan=4 class=xl24 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>

</tr>

<tr height=18 style='height:13.5pt'>

<td height=18 colspan=3 style='height:13.5pt;mso-ignore:colspan'></td>

<td colspan=4 class=xl24 style='mso-ignore:colspan'></td>

</tr>

<tr height=18 style='height:13.5pt'>

<td height=18 colspan=3 style='height:13.5pt;mso-ignore:colspan'></td>

<td class=xl25>Year</td>

<td class=xl25 style='border-left:none'>Real SLG</td>

<td class=xl25 style='border-left:none'>"Adjusted" SLG</td>

<td class=xl25 style='border-left:none'>Δ</td>

</tr>

<tr height=18 style='height:13.5pt'>

<td height=18 colspan=3 style='height:13.5pt;mso-ignore:colspan'></td>

<td class=xl25 style='border-top:none' x:num>2005</td>

<td class=xl26 style='border-top:none;border-left:none'>.349</td>

<td class=xl26 style='border-top:none;border-left:none'>.420</td>

<td class=xl26 style='border-top:none;border-left:none'>.071</td>

</tr>

<tr height=18 style='height:13.5pt'>

<td height=18 colspan=3 style='height:13.5pt;mso-ignore:colspan'></td>

<td class=xl25 style='border-top:none' x:num>2006</td>

<td class=xl26 style='border-top:none;border-left:none'>.353</td>

<td class=xl26 style='border-top:none;border-left:none'>.393</td>

<td class=xl26 style='border-top:none;border-left:none'>.040</td>

</tr>

<tr height=18 style='height:13.5pt'>

<td height=18 colspan=3 style='height:13.5pt;mso-ignore:colspan'></td>

<td class=xl25 style='border-top:none' x:num>2007</td>

<td class=xl26 style='border-top:none;border-left:none'>.369</td>

<td class=xl26 style='border-top:none;border-left:none'>.402</td>

<td class=xl26 style='border-top:none;border-left:none'>.033</td>

</tr>

<![if supportMisalignedColumns]>

<tr height=0 style='display:none'>

<td width=80 style='width:60pt'></td>

<td width=80 style='width:60pt'></td>

<td width=80 style='width:60pt'></td>

<td width=107 style='width:80pt'></td>

<td width=107 style='width:80pt'></td>

<td width=107 style='width:80pt'></td>

<td width=107 style='width:80pt'></td>

</tr>

<![endif]>

</table>

 

But a stolen base does not move anybody over

I think it'd be more appropriate to subtact from his OBP for his CS.

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QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 04:14 PM)
just to add on, the ST is also quoted as saying that Jerry added 10 lbs of muscle in the off season.

Why does this make me think about Willie Mays Hays, but from Major League 2?

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QUOTE(lostfan @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 04:30 PM)
I wish Jerry Owens would do steroids.

 

I'm joking but only a little.

Warning track power!

 

Btw, Steroids don't just provide power. Guys like Alex Sanchez don't use it for the power. They use them for the recovery benefits.

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I like the goal, but it's a lotfy one, it probably won't happen but we'll see. Didn't Willie Harris make a crazy goal a few years back?

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QUOTE(WilliamTell @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 08:28 PM)
I like the goal, but it's a lotfy one, it probably won't happen but we'll see. Didn't Willie Harris make a crazy goal a few years back?

 

That was one where his goal was to score the winning run in the clinching game of the World Series. Crazy.

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QUOTE(WilliamTell @ Feb 20, 2008 -> 09:28 PM)
I like the goal, but it's a lotfy one, it probably won't happen but we'll see. Didn't Willie Harris make a crazy goal a few years back?

It's not completely inconceivable, given the pace he was on for basically half a season plus a year of assumed improvement as a hitter. It would mean he had to be in CF full-time though.

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