Greg Walker

[oldsox]

...No longer the Braves' Hitting Coach.

[Quin]

[Dick Allen]

While it is always the hitting coach's fault the team can't hit, just look at this:

Greg Walker, idiot

 

2011 White Sox .252 avg. .319 OBP

 

Jeff Manto, idiot

 

2013 White Sox .245 avg. 302 OBP

 

Todd Steverson, genius

 

2014 White Sox .253 avg. .310 OBP

 

2014 White Sox without Jose Abreu .245 avg. 300 OBP

 

When BJ Upton continues to suck, who will be the next to blame since Walker will be watching TV?

 

If Hahn wants Steverson to really look good, the roster will have better hitters.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Dick Allen

[hogan873]

While it is always the hitting coach's fault the team can't hit, just look at this:

Greg Walker, idiot

 

2011 White Sox .252 avg. .319 OBP

 

Jeff Manto, idiot

 

2013 White Sox .245 avg. 302 OBP

 

Todd Steverson, genius

 

2014 White Sox .253 avg. .310 OBP

 

2014 White Sox without Jose Abreu .245 avg. 300 OBP

 

When BJ Upton continues to suck, who will be the next to blame since Walker will be watching TV?

So what you're saying is, Jose Abreu needs to be the hitting coach.

[Dick Allen]

So what you're saying is, Jose Abreu needs to be the hitting coach.

No, what I am saying is adding Jose Abreu to your line up suddenly makes your hitting coach a heck of a lot smarter. The Sox are definitely on the upswing, and should have better hitters fill their line up in coming years, so Steverson won't be an idiot until they start to decline.

 

I think many place way too much responsibility on a player's failure to hit on the hitting coach. Hitting is a tough thing. BJ Upton doesn't suck because Greg Walker is the hitting coach.

 

Leo Mazzone was the pitching coach of pitching coaches. Then he takes Baltimore's money and their crappy pitchers, winds up getting fired and couldn't find another job. Same with Rudy Jaramillo. Hitting guru in Texas. Someone here was once so impressed, he thought the Sox, if they couldn't bring him in, needed to hire his "assistant". Then he gets the Cubs crappy hitters, and he is no longer a major league hitting coach.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

 

This thread is going as expected.

[StrangeSox]

I don't know how comparable the 2011 and 2014 rosters are, even if you count Abreu.

[Balta1701]

No, what I am saying is adding Jose Abreu to your line up suddenly makes your hitting coach a heck of a lot smarter. The Sox are definitely on the upswing, and should have better hitters fill their line up in coming years, so Steverson won't be an idiot until they start to decline.

 

I think many place way too much responsibility on a player's failure to hit on the hitting coach. Hitting is a tough thing. BJ Upton doesn't suck because Greg Walker is the hitting coach.

A worthwhile question for the Braves is what do you do when it seems like the entire team takes a step back at once.

 

Fine, BJ Upton flopped. I'll even grant you that is on the GM and player evaluation, assuming that the hitting coach had no say in that, and the GM was appropriately fired as a consequence.

 

Jason Heyward's OPS went down 40 points last year and 30 points this year at a time when he should be approaching his prime and getting better, and injuries don't seem to be an excuse this year since he was solid in the OF.

 

Chris Johnson fell apart, put up his worst season of his career. Maybe he's not the player he was last year but he's been an above average bat almost every year of his career.

 

Freddie Freeman signed a big contract and his OPS dropped 50 points.

 

Andrelton Simmons isn't there for his bat, but the drop off from his .692 OPS last year to a .617 OPS this year almost makes it difficult to put him out there for that glove.

 

The only 2 guys in their lineup who got slightly better were Evan Gattis and Justin Upton, each by about 20 points of OPS. Basically they, within error, repeated their previous seasons.

 

So what the heck happened? Was the entire team hurt? Was the entire team misused? Guys who are at ages when they should be getting better seemed to uniformly go the opposite way. Was there something in the water? What else do you say about that?

[Dick Allen]

I don't know how comparable the 2011 and 2014 rosters are, even if you count Abreu.

But the 2013 roster didn't have Eaton or Abreu. Adding those 2 would have made a difference. Obviously 2011 Paulie was a lot better than he was this year, and that is not on Steverson, but overall, Viciedo hasn't seemed to be much better. Beckham didn't get better, Ramirez really about the same, after a couple of seasons of declining power. De Aza, not an improvement. Flowers, perhaps an improvement but luck does seem to be a bit better this year. I don't think if you asked Feeky if he thought Flowers could hit .240 next year he would say yes. Gillaspie was better this year, although less power and pretty awful the second half.

 

The offense changes when the hitters change. Blaming a hitter's failure on the hitting coach is ridiculous, especially if you don't know their exact relationship.

 

[RockRaines]

But the 2013 roster didn't have Eaton or Abreu. Adding those 2 would have made a difference. Obviously 2011 Paulie was a lot better than he was this year, and that is not on Steverson, but overall, Viciedo hasn't seemed to be much better. Beckham didn't get better, Ramirez really about the same, after a couple of seasons of declining power. De Aza, not an improvement. Flowers, perhaps an improvement but luck does seem to be a bit better this year. I don't think if you asked Feeky if he thought Flowers could hit .240 next year he would say yes. Gillaspie was better this year, although less power and pretty awful the second half.

 

The offense changes when the hitters change. Blaming a hitter's failure on the hitting coach is ridiculous, especially if you don't know their exact relationship.

You and Merkin are about the only people who seem to think Walker was unfairly criticized.

[Kyyle23]

But the 2013 roster didn't have Eaton or Abreu. Adding those 2 would have made a difference. Obviously 2011 Paulie was a lot better than he was this year, and that is not on Steverson, but overall, Viciedo hasn't seemed to be much better. Beckham didn't get better, Ramirez really about the same, after a couple of seasons of declining power. De Aza, not an improvement. Flowers, perhaps an improvement but luck does seem to be a bit better this year. I don't think if you asked Feeky if he thought Flowers could hit .240 next year he would say yes. Gillaspie was better this year, although less power and pretty awful the second half.

 

The offense changes when the hitters change. Blaming a hitter's failure on the hitting coach is ridiculous, especially if you don't know their exact relationship.

 

absolving them of all blame is equally as ridiculous, especially if you dont know their exact relationship

[southsider2k5]

A worthwhile question for the Braves is what do you do when it seems like the entire team takes a step back at once.

 

Fine, BJ Upton flopped. I'll even grant you that is on the GM and player evaluation, assuming that the hitting coach had no say in that, and the GM was appropriately fired as a consequence.

 

Jason Heyward's OPS went down 40 points last year and 30 points this year at a time when he should be approaching his prime and getting better, and injuries don't seem to be an excuse this year since he was solid in the OF.

 

Chris Johnson fell apart, put up his worst season of his career. Maybe he's not the player he was last year but he's been an above average bat almost every year of his career.

 

Freddie Freeman signed a big contract and his OPS dropped 50 points.

 

Andrelton Simmons isn't there for his bat, but the drop off from his .692 OPS last year to a .617 OPS this year almost makes it difficult to put him out there for that glove.

 

The only 2 guys in their lineup who got slightly better were Evan Gattis and Justin Upton, each by about 20 points of OPS. Basically they, within error, repeated their previous seasons.

 

So what the heck happened? Was the entire team hurt? Was the entire team misused? Guys who are at ages when they should be getting better seemed to uniformly go the opposite way. Was there something in the water? What else do you say about that?

 

[ignored]

[Dick Allen]

absolving them of all blame is equally as ridiculous, especially if you dont know their exact relationship

I think the proof is in the pudding. Not many White Sox hitters went on to higher success under other hitting coaches. Nick Swisher did, but as been stated here many times, one reason he was dumped by the White Sox was his refusal to work with the coaching staff.

[Dick Allen]

A worthwhile question for the Braves is what do you do when it seems like the entire team takes a step back at once.

 

Fine, BJ Upton flopped. I'll even grant you that is on the GM and player evaluation, assuming that the hitting coach had no say in that, and the GM was appropriately fired as a consequence.

 

Jason Heyward's OPS went down 40 points last year and 30 points this year at a time when he should be approaching his prime and getting better, and injuries don't seem to be an excuse this year since he was solid in the OF.

 

Chris Johnson fell apart, put up his worst season of his career. Maybe he's not the player he was last year but he's been an above average bat almost every year of his career.

 

Freddie Freeman signed a big contract and his OPS dropped 50 points.

 

Andrelton Simmons isn't there for his bat, but the drop off from his .692 OPS last year to a .617 OPS this year almost makes it difficult to put him out there for that glove.

 

The only 2 guys in their lineup who got slightly better were Evan Gattis and Justin Upton, each by about 20 points of OPS. Basically they, within error, repeated their previous seasons.

 

So what the heck happened? Was the entire team hurt? Was the entire team misused? Guys who are at ages when they should be getting better seemed to uniformly go the opposite way. Was there something in the water? What else do you say about that?

Didn't many of these same players also have the successes you mentioned while Walker was the hitting coach? How would you explain that?

[LittleHurt05]

You and Merkin are about the only people who seem to think Walker was unfairly criticized.

 

Scott Merkin @scottmerkin · 15h 15 hours ago

I've said this 100 times before: There was no more underrated/underappreciated coach in recent Chicago sports history than Greg Walker.

[Kyyle23]

I think the proof is in the pudding. Not many White Sox hitters went on to higher success under other hitting coaches. Nick Swisher did, but as been stated here many times, one reason he was dumped by the White Sox was his refusal to work with the coaching staff.

 

So the Braves younger players having significant declines isnt pudding proof, but other players not getting better is?

[Dick Allen]

So the Braves younger players having significant declines isnt pudding proof, but other players not getting better is?

They declined, but also put up numbers you are comparing the declines with under him, and we know from this board he suddenly didn't get stupid, he's been stupid for years. Guys have bad years. Look at Heyward's season before Walker got there. I think his first season they led the league in runs scored.

 

If Walker were as bad as so many here claim, we would see a ton of improvement from guys once they got away from his poison. The fact is, and I know that usually isn't what some want to look at, it hasn't happended.

[Balta1701]

Didn't many of these same players also have the successes you mentioned while Walker was the hitting coach? How would you explain that?

There are a couple options. Perhaps this is one of those situations where having the same voice and the same methods applied winds up working for a while but then reaches a point where it is no longer effective, in which case simply changing voice and approach will produce benefits. Alternatively, it is possible that there are some flaws to the approach being taught which are systematic but which take time to exploit because of video, scouting, and practice. In that case, similarly, a change of personnel could produce a dramatic turnaround.

 

In either case, the only way to evaluate the work of the coach is the performance on the field and that is heading the wrong way systematically. What's the worst that happens if a change happens, they get unacceptable results? They're already getting unacceptable results.

[Dick Allen]

For the record, Walker didn't get fired. Maybe he saw the writing on the wall.

 

But now that he is gone, pick all Braves hitters for your fantasy teams next season. Bargains galore.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Soxfest]

...No longer the Braves' Hitting Coach.

Not surprised at all at least Atlanta got smart and cut bait after 3 years unlike the Sox that kept him around way too long.

[CanOfCorn]

With all the griping and complaining, hiring and firing of coaches...I'm surprised teams don't save the payroll and eliminate positions.

[Kyyle23]

With all the griping and complaining, hiring and firing of coaches...I'm surprised teams don't save the payroll and eliminate positions.

 

you need a tiered system of fall guys, otherwise managers will get fired yearly instead of bi-yearly

[greg775]

While it is always the hitting coach's fault the team can't hit, just look at this:

Greg Walker, idiot

 

2011 White Sox .252 avg. .319 OBP

 

Jeff Manto, idiot

 

2013 White Sox .245 avg. 302 OBP

 

Todd Steverson, genius

 

2014 White Sox .253 avg. .310 OBP

 

2014 White Sox without Jose Abreu .245 avg. 300 OBP

 

When BJ Upton continues to suck, who will be the next to blame since Walker will be watching TV?

 

If Hahn wants Steverson to really look good, the roster will have better hitters.

 

Post of the century!

Nobody can explain how some hitting/pitching coaches in sports are seen as buffoons and have to be replaced and others are seen as Sabermetric gods. I forgot. What has made Steverson the anti-Walker? Why do we love him again?

Great post, Dick Allen! You exposed a big-time cliche. Steverson is just another guy. Players win games.

[max power]

While it is always the hitting coach's fault the team can't hit, just look at this:

Greg Walker, idiot

 

2011 White Sox .252 avg. .319 OBP

 

Jeff Manto, idiot

 

2013 White Sox .245 avg. 302 OBP

 

Todd Steverson, genius

 

2014 White Sox .253 avg. .310 OBP

 

2014 White Sox without Jose Abreu .245 avg. 300 OBP

 

When BJ Upton continues to suck, who will be the next to blame since Walker will be watching TV?

 

If Hahn wants Steverson to really look good, the roster will have better hitters.

What happened in 2012?

[Kyyle23]

Post of the century!

Nobody can explain how some hitting/pitching coaches in sports are seen as buffoons and have to be replaced and others are seen as Sabermetric gods. I forgot. What has made Steverson the anti-Walker? Why do we love him again?

Great post, Dick Allen! You exposed a big-time cliche. Steverson is just another guy. Players win games.

 

except for Ozzie. Because Ozzie wins games, not the players