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Some of your blame for Shields could also be placed on Padres GM AJ Preller. He hid some of Shields' medical info from us at the time of the trade. For whatever reason, the MLB investigation concluded without giving us the option to undo the trade.

Now I know that most fans on here just want to complain. They don’t care what is really going on. Because if they did, they would get what this comment says. All this talk of winning this year or next. I guess people just don’t get it. Yes, we have been awful the last decade or so. Yes, there has been nothing to look forward too. But 18 months ago a decision was made to try and rectify it. This team is not supposed to win now. Outside of a couple players, do you really think any of the rest are any good. Now some of you don’t think things will improve even after the changes but I like what I see in the minors. Everything points to us having some good players coming up. Only time will tell for sure but so far things look good. But there is 1 problem, ITS ONLY BEEN 18 MONTHS. What happened before doesn’t matter because there was no plan. What players have been called up in those months. Lopez and Giolito? Can’t forget Moncada. Anyone else? Certainly not anybody considered to be good. Anybody who knows how this rebuild will go right now is just being ridiculous. You won’t know until 2020 at the earliest. By then we should have 2 more high draft picks and some of our high profile prospects should be up. If they suck after that then I am all for getting rid of our entire management team. They won’t deserve to have it. But right now I am very excited with the players coming up. Not just the big names. There is more to our system than just them. I hope everyone understands this and just want to vent. I can’t tell. But I am very excited to be a Sox fan. I’ve been to Wrigley and GRF is just so much more fun. I plan on going many more times because I see the whole picture and it’s looking like it will be good. You should too

A number of people have posted here as to when the White Sox will be Playoff Contenders. Some people say 2019, 2020, 2021 and some think 2022. I wish I could be optimistic about this but I can't. The team hasn't had a winning season since 2012. I'm not talking about White Sox contending for the playoffs. I just wonder when will the team finish with a winning record? A winning season would provide some hope for the future.

This is just a remind to never discount the human factor with these guys in case Abreu & Moncada weren’t good enough examples. Obviously his issues go beyond his personal tragedy, but I think it’s fair to assume it’s partly responsible for his struggles as of late.

Come on mods, this is obvious trolling if I have ever seen it. Davidson has tripled his BB rate from last year, while cutting down his K rate slightly & maintaining his power. His OPS is nearly 100 points better and all his traditional stats (the ones Greg would cite) are projected to better. This is baiting plain & simple. Why do we allow him to purposely derail threads like this?

This season is a wash, yes the Sox will have a top 3 draft pick , and some top prospects are getting MLB experience , but 2019 needs change. This losing Culture that's gone on practically since 2007 has nearly wiped out half the fan base. The horrible general managing from 2007-2015 destroyed the farm system , now it's finally good, but only 50% off the top guy's will make it as average major leaguers , 1 in 5 or so will be above average , and 1 in 10 will be a all star. The Sox have had plenty of early first round picks , and have failed miserably for years (minus Chris Sale). The scouting has been down right awful , as far as scouting talent and opponets. The manager has been a trash since Ozzie in 2006. 2019 needs a winning a culture , this team has the money to spend (we need to spend big on a franchise player (Machado) and a ace. This team needs to buy a bullpen , catcher at minimum. With the talent coming up over the next two years a winning culture needs to happen and they must spend big money , and get a good, experienced manager. A winning culture and true player development is much needed , or this rebuild will be a massive fail, and attendence will continue to decline. Ready for 2019, as this team is too hard to watch, and I continue to watch more Cubs games than sox , And I truly dislike the Cubs .

Wendell just blocking s*** left and right.

Yeah, message board posters are much more reliable

Better players meaning what? Just curious... I mean, we all know we had "better players" in Adam Eaton, Chris Sale, and even LaRoche. They were direct results of culture issues in that clubhouse. And in my opinion a big reason as to why they didn't succeed, other than the mediocre managing of Ventura among other things. I will say, I fell into the trap this past off-season of believing that this team would surprise people and make a push for the wild card because of their upbeat and close knit clubhouse. I drank the kool-aid of the podcasts and what not. What this season has taught me, is that it takes way more than positive vibes in a clubhouse to win...HOWEVER...until or unless I am proven otherwise,I do think Ricky, however questionable at times with his in-game managing skills, is the right man to set a foundation of winning attitudes and fundamentally sound baseball, which I believe paves the path for championships.

Many of the White Sox players come through Charlotte. That franchise has had probably 20 years of misery. I think losing culture is pretty accurate.

Moncada is definitely pressing cause of his offensive struggles and it’s affecting the other areas of his game. I know it can be painful to watch at times, but once his offensive game starts clicking again the rest of his game will follow.

ok -- how would you characterize the "overall development" of Yoan Moncada and Lucas Giolito?

I have my share of moves that I liked that were rotten, I was ok with the LaRoche signing because they needed a DH and 1b backup and that was garbage, although I never would have guessed that the manager couldn't control that guy. But there was no one who liked the Samardzija and Frazier moves here less than I, and in particular the path of trying to compete using scraps. It was a terrible plan and it worked out exactly that way, repeatedly. Prior to the 2016 season I had to take a break here because no one wanted to hear how this team wasn't nearly as good as they thought they would be. They should have spent the seasons 2014-2016 rebuilding, and then they might have had enough talent that, when the 2017 and 2018 Free Agent markets had guys that were available, they might have had enough talent developed to take advantage of it, while still having Sale and Quintana around. But anyway, you realize you just supported a person who said that signing Moustakas would have been a terrible move for the 2018 White Sox, right? Which is, as usual, the opposite of what you've been saying. But even then there's a lesson getting lost in this thread - after the last decade, the White Sox should have learned that you can't win, or even break even, on the free agent market. You can only fill in the last pieces. You cannot put a 5th place team into 1st place on the free agent market, you can only put a 5th place team into 4th place. For every guy you bought that was a bargain and outproduced (Moustakas has done that this year), there's a Logan Morrison who has completely fallen apart. For the people who said that the White Sox should have been "All in" on the free agent market in 2015 and 2016, congratulations you just lucked into Alex Gordon or Jayson Heyward!

AJ Pollock. Really solid numbers, regularly injured so he won't be getting more than a couple year offer, will require us to have some depth behind him.

I agree with the premise of the article but that was really poorly written at some points.

there isn't a losing culture, the team just sucks, and it's supposed to suck the way it's assembled.

Love what I'm seeing from Avi! Meanwhile, the pitching is embarrassing.

You mean, like not signing players such as Miguel Gonzalez, Hector Rondon, and Hector Santiago? Not that those pitchers are the bulk of our issue, but I think the FO needs to be more intentional about signing pitchers who not only can eat innings when these young'ns faulter, but also those who can, ya know,actually pitch competitively. Next season, barring injuries, I expect a rotation of Giolito, Rodon, Lopez, Kopech, Stephens (in not any specific order). Gonna need some good long relief arms to cover for those young starters when they go through stretches of 3-5 inning starts. Cease starting in AAA and probably comes up later in the season to take either Gio or Stephen's spot. Lineup already looks better with Eloy in it. Moncada-2B Yolmer-3B Abreu-1B Avi-RF Eloy-LF DH (my guess is Davidson/Palka share this position...) Anderson-SS Castillo-C I wish for a free agent CF with Leury and Tilson being our backups, but they probably give Engel another chance. Smith the backup. Unless Narvaez does what he has been doing for the rest of the season. Biggest weaknesses I see for next season: Bullpen, Defense, and growing pains from the starters.

He is slumping because of his injury. These players are not machines.

The fuck?

The sky must be falling. Abreu is playing hurt. He probably should be in the d/l. His feet and ankles are banged up. Watch his at bats and you can see how uncomfortable he is swinging the bat. You are only hitting with your arms if you can’t get the feet planted and generate power with the lower body/legs. This idea that a contract signing of Abreu didn’t work out because he is slumping caused by his physical injury then you are simply not living in reality

I think RR should be fired at the all star break and let Coop be interim. Think of how fun it would be just to see Coop's head explode after games, blasting everybody. Then in the offseason hire Omar or Girardi.

this is what happens when you have a franchise where loyalty is so strong. Hahn should have been fired the second the 2016 season ended. I will let balta take it from here.

Jose has been complete and utter trash lately. The dude has slowed down significantly. His fat lip with half a tin in it is less tolerable when he can't hit a damn thing. He killed his trade value.

Gotta blow off some steam in this gamethread personally. Shitty day stuck at the office and watching bad baseball on the regular.

The problem with the White Sox was much more fundamental and deeper. I picked up a Buck Showalter quote a few years ago when he was still on TV that the most important thing a general manager could do is understand his roster. Our General Manager knew nothing about his roster, for years. He insisted that they were 1 player away and was constantly willing to sacrifice depth in trades to get that one player (Samardzija, Frazier). He insisted that when he picked up guys at the peak of their career arcs, they wouldn't fall off. He insisted that guys who had never broken out in the big leagues - Garcia, Rodon - were ready for Stardom, and planned around it. Rick Hahn completely failed in his evaluation of the quality of the White Sox roster in 2013, 2015, and 2016. Each one of those years, he made decisions that made the teams worse in 2017, 2018, and 2019 as a result. The end result of those decisions to be worse in 2017, 2018, and 2019, is the White Sox being worse in 2017, 2018, and 2019.

Moustakas and JD Martinez would have both been terrible wastes of money for the 2018 White Sox. This team is not going anywhere, we'd have spent large amounts of money on them for a team that wasn't going anywhere, and now we'd be sitting here paying a DH $20 million a year on a team that isn't going anywhere. And again, Yolmer has been worth 1 WAR and Moustakas 1.6 WAR. That was a plainly wrong move for the White Sox to think about last offseason and it would be a plainly wrong move this offseason when the guy is a year older. This offseason, I'm totally ok with going out and targeting a CF, ours just aren't cutting it. We've got Sanchez into at the worst a strong backup IF at this point, ditto Leury. LF and RF are full, 2b and SS are full. 3b is plenty open if we want to go for the big money guy, but that only makes sense if we get a guy who will be good in 3-4 years. We could use some catching help right now but that's because of a steroid suspension. The other place worth upgrading is the bullpen, and frankly I'd still put that first. We really don't need DH help right now, we really don't need corner OFs, so JD Martinez would have been a terrible waste of $20 million for this roster.

He needs to be at DH

Ok folks, we need to stop talking about the Astros and Abreu. Gurriel and Gattis are both substantially outproducing Abreu at 1b and DH. This "slump" has now gone on long enough that they would view acquiring him as a downgrade. That team does not need him unless one of those guys get hurt in the next 2 weeks.

And they year before that he was non tendered. He was a journeyman his entire career.

Yeah, we have to wait and see on a lot of things right now. Who knows how it will all play out, but I can't ever see how having too much talent could be a bad thing.

They were dogshit because they went half assed. If they are going to spend like a lot of posters here think they are going to spend, frontline starters, lockdown relievers, Manny Machado, if they would have done that when they had guys like Sale and Q and Eaton signed cheaply, they would have been just fine.

Your post should scare everybody. Although even though it might take decades, the rebuild still could be popular. Never underestimate the power of unknown players. "Wait til next year" has been popular with fans forever as long as there are players being touted as future saviors.

1 team out of 30. the fact is you cannot have 30 great teams. There isn’t enough talent. Some of these rebuilds will go on for decades. Sox we just have to hope one of them isn’t the White Sox. Here’s a link to the 2014 farm systems. The Twins had 8 top 100 guys. Getting really bad is no guarantee of getting really good. Just go down the list and read about breakout prospects, prospects you have to see... 4 years later you haven’t heard of most of them. https://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospects/article/22906/prospects-will-break-your-heart-2014-organizational-rankings/

Quite frankly this tanking stuff is ruining sports. The only reason we couldn't win with Sale and Co. is the front office was so inept at bringing in real talent. You know what? We had a playoff workhorse pitcher in Sale. We had closers in the past. All we needed was some better set up guys. It's really ridiculous to think tanking for draft picks and making 2-3 trades will win us divisions and WS. The Sox have so much work to do still it's ridiculous. Eloy better be a fricking phenom. And the Sox have to sign so many relievers and maybe 1-2 veteran starters to go with hopefully 3 guys who pan out from the rebuild trades. If I were commissioner I'd be kicking some owner ass in meetings if I suspected them of tanking. It's sickening really. Fans wanting teams to lose and to trade any decent player they have is just wrong. I hate to break it to the tank people but if you trade Avi and Abreu you are really setting back this rebuild cause the White Sox are not going to win it all without some veterans. Jerry R. should be ashamed of what is going on in his sport.

Trade him for Melo. Buyout Melo. Ok, now I gotcha. His loyalty can indeed be frustrating. But l guess it's the combination of him being hyper loyal and not a Vivek-level fool that makes it frustrating.

Have you looked around baseball lately? The odds on Cleveland winning the Central Division are -10000 on Fourth of July weekend! They are the only team in the Central that is even attempting to compete this year. Cincy, Miami, Texas, Tampa, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and San Diego are all tanking as well. A third of the league is trying to be bad for multiple seasons in an attempt to mimic the Cubs and Astros. The Giants won 3 titles in 6 years. That is pretty consistent in my humble opinion.

James Fegan had an article about him a few weeks ago, said this year he's been in the 89-94 range, whereas last year it was 85-91... He focused on leg and shoulder strength in the off-season which seems to be helping out a lot.

I’m glad they didn’t b**** out. The kid is the same age as their 1-22 and has as much upside as anyone. You don’t give LaVine away when you need talent. Would you rather they spend this money on guys like DeAndre Jordan?? Letting LaVine walk would have been astronomically stupid. Anyone who disagrees is a Russian spy.

Sox looked like a high school team facing a major league team tonight. Score is just now reflecting what a mismatch it was. Pitch Davidson, he has better stuff than half the pitchers.

While losing right now may be understood, I would also add that the fans have every right to be pissed about it. The losing in 2018 is a direct result of choices the White Sox were making in 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016, and the people who made those choices have suffered no consequences. By the end of 2016, Rick Hahn didn't just deserve to be fired, he deserved to be tarred and feathered. After the Shields trade people should have been burning Rick Hahn in effigy. The only reason they weren't is that after so much ineptitude, nobody really cared any more.

The contract didn't work out because they didn't sign Jose to come here during a rebuilt and his trade value is zero right now. If you think it "worked out" then I don't know what to say.

You can put down the Jose contract as another one that didn't work out for the Sox. Sigh.

When and why did you reinvent yourself as a poster? You suddenly are MVP of the board after blah status.

Please baseball. Do not let us play the great teams. It's embarrassing for the game. We shouldn't be allowed to play the elite teams until we field an MLB squad. I wish somebody would interview Jerry R and he'd apologize.

The problem with the Sox in those years was they had like 5 good players and everyone else suuucked. I saw an article on ESPN back then asking seriously did the Sox have the worst collection of position players in history! Hard to sign enough free agents to make up for that, especially when players are aging faster and a lot of Free agents fall off a cliff right after you sign them ala Adam Dunn. You can’t seriously expect them to sign like 10 guys. Now they have committed to building some depth. Hopefully some of those guys turn out to be stars. If so, they’ll have enough quantity to build around them.

IMO Madrigal is not going to EVER beat out Moncada in terms of production/ability. Thus Moncada should be the Sox second baseman a long long time. However, let's say the Sox do decide both players will be part of the program 10 years or so. That necessitates a move for one of the two. Is it possible they will wait til after this offseason to see if they sign Machado (LOL, no way they'll pay what it takes to get him and I'm not even suggesting they should) or Moustakas (who they could sign to a reasonable contract if the fans think he's not too old; he actually is way too old in most fans' eyes, turning 30 in September). If they don't sign a third baseman, do they simply switch Moncada to 3B or Madrigal to 3B when it's time for Madrigal to come up to the bigs? That would mean a third baseman with no power in Madrigal or a third baseman who probably would be furious to be moved in Moncada? Interesting stuff. I could see a time the trade people call for a trade of Moncada or Madrigal or even Timmy (with Madrigal at SS) if both Moncada and Madrigal are deemed second basemen of the future in the bigs and there's no room for both of them.

Some of the comments on Facebook are predictable, but some are hilarious. People love fighting about this stuff. Cubs vs. White Sox

No. They weren't making the playoffs before the rebuild. Hence why I said another decade of no playoffs. Are the people responsible for the playoff drought still around making poor decisions? The fact that Hahn couldn't even trade Moncada straight up for Tatis Junior right now tells me all I need to know about the current state of the rebuild.