Chimpton

Even if Hahn has a plan it is bound to be a cheap one and not very good. But eventually one of these reclamation projects will come good and Hahn will think everything was worth it.

Trading away Burger was a difficult to understand decision except that they aren't going to bin Moncada, and unless they swallow a big chunk of salary no one would take him, so that is 3B blocked, they are not getting rid of Eloy so that is DH blocked and they are clearly investing in Vaughn as a 'franchise player' with all the positive stories about him, so that is 1B blocked. So in Hahn' mind getting a prospect for Burger made sense. But that ignores what you say about his fan appeal and HR potential. Basically Burger was a victim of the badly built squad by Hahn which is overloaded with 1B/DH types and where Moncada and Eloy got huge deals early and have failed to deliver on them, there is still some hope that an injury free Eloy could deliver but I can't see Moncada suddenly improving.

I agree with you about racism still existing both in sport and society as a whole, but I genuinely can't see that as a big factor in this incident. But maybe that is because I am not African American and therefore have never been the victim of racism whether overt or covert. I respect your opinion, even if I cannot completely agree with it.

Sorry but TA was the instigator, he threw down his glove and put his fists up in a fighting pose just because someone pointed at him. I am not denying that racism happens in sport as in real life, but the reaction here has more to do with him getting knocked down after trying to act like the tough guy. 'Team loyalty' should not be blind, if one of my players is being an idiot I will call that no matter what his ethnicity. As for your point about Ali (before my time) undoubtedly some of that was racism but also some of it was because of the arrogant bragging persona that he adopted before fights. I resent the implication that anyone who doesn't support TA in this is automatically a racist.

But he was squaring up to another 'non-white' player, so how does that fit in to your narrative? TA did start it by throwing his glove down and then putting his fists up. It is not as if it was a fight between an African American player and a White player and people are siding with the White player. People are laughing at TA because he squared up like a tough guy and then got knocked down by one punch. And as for AV he was trying to help out a teammate by saving him from further harm, the fact he is White is irrelevant. And not everyone is praising him some on here think he should have been throwing punches, so that equally doesn't fit your narrative.

You could appreciate him by spelling his name correctly!

That was my best bit of this whole sorry incident, only Eloy could potentially injure himself by getting trodden on by one of his own players.

In football (soccer) the referee always stands back when there is a scuffle in order to see which players needs punishing. Not sure if that is the same for baseball, but it could explain why the umpire took a step back and let them fight. Mind you scuffles are rare in soccer, and rarely have I seen actual punches being thrown, the occasional headbutt. The players did rush to intervene but by then Anderson was on his ass. Like most sporting fights only 2 or 3 actual punches were thrown, it is just that usually one of the protaganists isn't decked by one of the punches. Basically, this whole sorry affair would normally be nothing by now but because Anderson was actually floored it has been made into a bigger thing. Obviously as the White Sox are losing and dressingroom unrest is rumoured we tend to read more into this incident in terms of did the players support Anderson enough and if they didn't does that mean they don't like him.

TA's reaction of still spoiling for a fight despite being knocked on his ass reminds me of this Monty Python scene

Sorry but TA did start it, by throwing his glove to the floor hockey style and putting up his fists like a comedy boxer. If that is how he reacts when someone points at him he has serious anger issues. And as for saying that punching someone in retaliation would show club pride that is utter macho drivel. Anyway retaliate for what? TA squared up, threw the first punch, then got knocked on his ass, so Ramirez was just retaliating TA's childish tantrum.

But they did come to his aid by helping his wobbly ass away from further embarrassment.

I would agree with you but this season is over and any effect of team bonding over a fight would have worn off by next season. Maybe something similar at the start of the season could have helped bring the clubhouse together but I think the underlying issues with this squad are far greater than being solved by a bit of team spirit. But certainly this is a clubhouse that appears to have no spirit, no team ethic, no leadership from within and no leadership from above. I think the biggest laugh from this incident was that Eloy managed to injure himself and it wasn't through any opposition violence it was get his toe trod on probably by one of his own team. That just about sums up this team.

It was TA's fault, he squared up like a tough guy and got put on his backside, Vaughn and the others were protecting him from himself, he was clearly concussed and barely able to walk, letting him get knocked over again would be stupid. Not punching someone doesnt make you weak, violence is the first resort of the 'emotional retard'. It showed more 'leadership' for Vaughn to step in and protect a team mate by removing him from further harm than if he flew in like a meathead and punched a few guys.

Maybe but that 'siege mentality' only works for a short time. I think it would take more than a good fight to sort this clubhouse out. And I certainly don't think Grifol knocking out an opponent in retaliation would make hima better manager all of a sudden.

Would they get that chemistry by also serving suspensions? TA got knocked on his backside due to his own stupidity, more players getting suspended for punching opponents would not prove anything other than they are just as stupid as TA.

Utter nonsense, so Betts thinks more White Sox players should have been throwing punches? How come no other Guardians players threw punches? Does that mean they don't support Ramirez? As a former teacher the 'fight' was just like so many playground fights, after 1 or 2 punches it virtually always degenerates into pushing and shoving and 'hold me back' posturing.

When they play like this they hint at what could have been, consistency is a big issue for this team, they are either good or bad, there is nothing inbetween. Plus it is always good to beat the Yankees no matter how good they are playing.

Why would Hahn even mention it? He slammed Middleton for breaking the 'what goes on in the clubhouse rule' and then promptly did it himself by teasing this story and saying Middleton himself apologised for being unprofessional. Hahn would say anything to try an wriggle off the hook of his own incompetence. By teasing this story he just ensured it stays in the media and speculation longer than if he just said that he refuted Middleton's claims.

Back problems can be intermittant and/or only restrict certain movements, but Moncada has to be one of the biggest busts of this whole rebuild, but we are stuck with him as no one else will take on his contract. The only hope is that if he can get proper rest and treatment for his back in the close season he won't suck as bad next season. Even is his bat is never more than average he was good at 3B before this season.

Eloy and Moncada would be in the sick bay!

They would probably hire Ron Burgundy instead.

To be honest even calling it an 'Organisation' is a bit of a misnomer. There is absolutely nothing organised about it.

Why? Is he anticipating big crowds?

In those 12 years there have been only 3 winning seasons (one of which was the 60 game season) and one .500 season, and they reached the playoffs twice. I think that explains why there have been 5/6 managers in that period. If any one of them had been consistently winning then they wouldn't have been replaced