greg775

No. I'm just saying you don't need a star who rates well offensively at every position. It's like we're trying to make sure every guy in the everyday lineup is exceptional WAR. In 05 we didn't exactly fill the lineup card with all stars. I won't look up their WAR but how good was the WAR of Uribe, Pods, AJ, Dye, Rowand, Crede, Everett, Iguchi, etc. That's why I DEMAND we keep Jose Abreu around. You need some glue guys, folks, not an all star version of WAR at every position. 05 had Mark B and Paulie and AJ and Dye for gosh sakes. Winners. Next time the White Sox make the WS it just might be because of defense and pitching again not high WAR at every infield outfield and catching and DH position. Yes, for all we know it might be 20 years til it gels again.

Then it's really changed since 05. Sometimes teams click with good players plus ordinary players and excellent pitching. We don't have near the pitching it's going to take but we have the every day players.

Then how did we win it in 05?

If we don't want Avi, why not give Leury a shot at playing on a team with a chance to win something? He's not a bad player. We don't need 8 phenoms playing every day in the lineup.

Interesting take, Jose. I never thought of that. Ozzie made a lot of errors too as I recall and he was dandy overall. Leave Timmy alone. I'd write an essay for you guys on where I would suggest moving Timmy, but I think that's what finally got me suspended last time. Nobody let me defend my position on him in a court of message board law; they thought I was trolling. Leave Timmy at short. He's a star who loses interest IMO during meaningless routs. Let's see a chart of when his errors were committed in games and the score at the time.

For some reason I read that as Adam Engel and wondered why u would want him. Then I read closer.

What's wrong with Leury? Spend the money on all pitching. Or Leury/Avi. Neither make any money and are not too bad.

It's this current group of players PLUS Collins, Robert, Madrigal and Vaughn. Plus Basabe, Rutherford. Also Kopech and Dunning and Stiever. There's your core group. Can that group plus our current players dominate with a few free agents to help? That is the question.

It's one of the negatives of a rebuild (don't shoot the messenger, it happens to be true). The roster makeup is such this team can't contend for the postsason so it's human nature to not give a bleep the final six weeks or so. I know baseball is a fun game, but a lot of the guys are nicked up, too. I'm just saying until we field a roster that's capable of vying for postseason play, the team will probably limp home playing this kind of baseball. When the team gets good, you'll probably see half the errors from say, Anderson. Just my take. It's easy for lousy teams to be lousy year after year, look at the dregs teams in the NFL and NBA as well as MLB.

No offense, but isn't Avi basically the same player as Ozuna? About the same age. Ozuna has drawn 45 walks to Avi's 29 in fewer plate appearances and he's whacked about six more homers. Ozuna has 17 more RBI which apparently means nothing with RBI stats discarded. Ozuna makes 12 mill; Avi 3.5 mill. Since the Sox seem to be enjoying not spending a lot of money aside from bonus money isn't it smarter to sign Avi two years 6.5 mill a year instead of Ozuna two years 15 million a year? It's not like we're going to need a superstar in right. Avi figures to pick up the home run pace back in the The Cell. Just saying ... Ozuna's stats don't scream "sign me!" I don't really care either way, but obviously I'd like Avi back if guys like Rutherford aren't going to make it. I guess Leury in right would be just as good as Avi as well.

Sox are back in the dumpster at 60-76. Terrible record. 33-35 at home. Only bright spot this season compared to the other tank seasons. Some nice home wins. Pathetic baseball team overall. Poorly put together squad in all aspects. However, forgivable (not to me) to many cause it's still rebuild/tank time. I'd describe the Sox this way: Some very good prospects in the everyday lineup. Just one or two starting pitchers have shown possibility of being elite. One elite reliever (I'll let you guys say two, I'm not a Bummer fanatic). Some very good prospects close to majors. Team need influx of pitching from outside the organization to hit the coveted .500 mark next season or more likely 2021. Projected playoff team: Likely 2022 if squad can stay healthy.

So the Sox are in the argument for worst franchise in baseball history?

Should be interesting to see how these guys play when we have a good team. My guess is they'll do well when the games mean something. During the tank years there's been a reward for losing in the draft pick.

Dick you are on fire with recent posts. I think if there was a vote you or Fathom might be overall "smartest" poster in terms of considering both analytics and common sense in coming up with your positions.

I don't really care when I get ripped or mocked. I just like discussing baseball. I know that in real life if I talked to my haters we'd be fine. They would see my responses are considered at least and my knowledge of Sox past and present would be strong enough they'd finally know I'm no troll. My dad actually was every-day business partner of one of the owners in the Jerry group (dead now) and we had season tickets in the fifth row forever and access to a suite in new Comiskey forever. Analytics people laugh at me. Big deal. I don't discount analytics. I do think it's unfair when people think I don't read or consider other's posts. If you look, most of my posts are long ones. I try to keep them short now cause people seem to get mad at me repeating myself. But when I see something obvious like a very good player like Jose getting torched on here, I often can't stop myself from commenting. p.s. In regard to exit velocity. I agree Dick Allen had to have amazing exit velocity, but on that home run he hit into the right centerfield nook at Comiskey, I think that was just a towering shot that took forever to get there. And didn't he play dead ball era and lower pitching mound era? I wonder how Dick Allen did in WAR. I'd argue he was a great hitter. Wonder how he pans out.

Very very good point Bubba. The teams with fewer WS appearances than Sox are Royals, Miami, Toronto, Houston, Texas, SD, Angels, Arizona, Tampa, Colorado, Milwaukee, Seattle and Washington.

Timmy is young enough he's "forgiven" for having meh war by the analytics folks. His defensive metrics are so bad you'd think there would be daily outrage on here considering the importance WAR gets. It would be interesting to monitor all his errors. How many of them actually cost the team in terms of winning or losing a particular game? How many were "meaningless" in terms of him losing focus in runaway wins or runaway losses? Seems to me from the memory test he hasn't had a lot of huge errors. Just boots a lot when he loses focus. -- As far as Ozzie's observation. Seems like Ozzie could be put to use as a roaving instructor.

It'd be interesting to discuss worst franchise in baseball history. The good news is the Sox probably are not in the discussion. There are 13 franchises with fewer WS appearances. Seven franchises have won only 1 or fewer WS titles.

I love Moncada and will never criticize his game. However nobody is perfect. People could criticize aspects of his play this season just like my fave, Jose. That said ... posters who read me know I love Moncada.

"Old has-been" ... well isn't that special.

I've been told I'm overreacting when I say people hate Jose on this board. They say nobody hates Jose. I'm glad you sense the same hate I do. Several posters have said he's basically worthless. Man, the guy is an all star, player of the month team for August, the guy is an all star, and an all star and people despise him. It's really sad more than anything else. Glad you are standing up for him and see what I do, Mr. Allen.

You mean if we want to win. They could stand pat and lose some more.

Hmmm maybe my way does work. Braves below .500 six times in last 30 years? In other words they are always competitive. Good job, White Sox.

It's good to say "no offense" to tone down an internet post. You don't want to insult and maybe get suspended when you didn't mean anything personal.

I dislike Reinsdorf, his saving grace for me is 05 which I am very thankful for, but I've never heard "despicable" to describe him. For him to be despicable a lot of things have to be true: like the small market crap is all a sham and he's had the $$ to dominate this division and just elected not to do so. ... Renteria is not the worse manager in Sox history. This team was close to .500 at the all star break and it's one of the worst rosters put together in team history.