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You simply can't fix the Sox attendance problems. Baseball doesn't want to fix them. Yankees can't even sell out for first game of ALCS. WOWWWWW http://sports.yahoo.com/news/no-show--yank...oving-fans.html Face facts: Baseball is not a sport meant to have these kind of ticket prices. There are too many f***ing games. It is simply not worth the experience to pay this kind of money to go to a damn baseball game and pay 8 dollars for a pop and 10 dollars for a Miller Lite. I repeat the Yankees had 6000 or more empty seats tonight. In a city that large. Shouldn't that tell you something, baseball owners?? You tried to gouge the fans of New York for ridiculously priced playoff tickets and they said, "f*** you. We'll watch it on TV." PEOPLE CANNOT AFFORD TO GO TO THE GAMES. Guess what owners? You don't need to sign Pujols for 100,000 billion dollars a year if it means you have to raise ticket prices a ton to pay for him. You don't have to pay Zach Greinke 900,000 billion this offseason if you have to raise parking another 10 bucks a car to pay for him. Guess what owners? The Angels didn't even make the expanded playoffs!!!!! Jerry keep raising those parking prices. What a f***ing joke. p.s. and yes I've read some of your posts about how the Sox would rather have 25,000 at these ridiculously high prices than 40,000 at lower prices. Good for them. They and all other teams have helped ruin a great game. Get used to playoff games and World Series not being sold out. We're at that point if New York can't sell out a playoff game. Tell me I'm wrong.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 11, 2012 -> 03:35 AM) Frankly I thought he did well all the way through his tenure. There never were any complaints about the Sox's on-field performance under Ozzie. He was never on the hot seat until the end when he talked a bit too much. The performance remained fine. It was the other stuff.

QUOTE (My_Sox_Summer @ Oct 12, 2012 -> 04:27 PM) I was hoping to see the market for the playoff tickets. I don't think the demand was going to be that great to be honest. I never thought about this but after drawing so few fans during the season with a team nobody really believed in, I wonder if Sox would have sold out any early playoff games. Certainly if the Sox made the championship series, those would have been sold out but before that? Maybe not. Nobody has any money. If this goes on another year or two, I'd suspect habit will kick in and the Sox fan base will be very, very tiny. If enough seasons pass where the average fan just says the hell with it, it costs too much to go to a game, that can shrink a fan base for decades to come.

QUOTE (Tuna @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 05:42 PM) Other questions: Is it a myth that the Cell is a bad neighborhood? IMO it's the surrounding areas, I don't view bridgeport as a bad neighborhood (east of Halsted anyway). I actually lived on 33rd and Parnell and went to St Lucy school. Back when I lived there, racism was more of an issue than gangs. I'm the same age and was friends with a couple of the guys that were responsible for the Leonard Clark beating. I thought it was stupid then and I hold the same opinion now. do gangs hang on on the periphery of the park to rob people? That's more of an individual thing if it happens. I've personally never been robbed by the park and have never met anyone that's been robbed by the park (except ticket prices) so I cant speak too much to that. What about the United Center? If you are white and walk around that neighborhood are you cooked? I believe that to be true for the entire west side including the area around the United Center. If you are in a gang do you have to beat people and rob people to prove you are not a p****? Beat, yes. Rob, no. If somebody in your gang is fighting and losing, you better jump in or the gang will beat your ass for not doing anything. If someone is disrespectful or challenges you then you have to fight, even if you don't think you can win. Let's say a 12-year-old saw the gang and yelled cuss words at you all. Would you beat him or is 12 too young and you guys would just laugh? Unfortunately, that 12 year old would get beat. Have you ever witnessed a murder or severe beating? Yes Let's say you were still in a gang and I was walking down the wrong street and you guys were going to beat/rob me. Let's say I knew you personally and before I got beat I said, 'Hey Tuna, stand up for me.' Would the gang then leave me alone? This is a tricky question. If I was there and we were friends, you wouldn't need to speak at all as I would just tell them you were my guy and nobody would question it. If I wasn't there and you told them, "hey I'm friends with Tuna" they would leave you alone and you could continue to walk without any problems. Finally, in your new life, do people get scared when they see your tattoo or you tell your neighbors you served time in the slammer? Do you cause fear in them or do they give you a chance? Honestly, this is the most I've talked about it since I've been away. I'm not proud of my past, but at the same time I'm not ashamed. I did what I did. I feel like I'm a better husband because I know how dedicated my wife is to me and I know what it's like to not be with her every night. I'm a better father because I know what it's like to be powerless over helping to shape my kids futures. Not to mention, it's very difficult for my kids to get away with lies considering that I've told them all at some point in my life. I find that people have been very accepting of me. also ... Why did you go to jail? Juvi: UUW (unlawful use of a weapon) - I brought a gun to school. sentence: probation -Attempted Murder -sentence: 30 months juvi DOC The first time as a adult I got 6 years for the following: -Possession of a firearm -Obstruction of Justice - Gave a fake name to police -Theft 10k-100k - I was involved in a robbery of a currency exchange, they dropped the charges to theft in the cop out Parole Violation: -Failed drug test The second time I got 5 years for: Possession/attempt to sell stolen motor vehicle - 3 counts - I ran a chop shop What is life like in jail? Is jail boring? Do you have TV in jail? Quite honestly, life wasn't that bad. Time goes by really quick. I was in Western (Mt Sterling), Sheridan, Shawnee. I was processed in Joliet the first time, then in Statesville for the parole violation and second sentence. I was fortunate enough to have people send me money so I rarely ate the prison food. I cooked in my cell, had a hot pot for coffee, had a radio, TV (with cable), battery powered shaver, jogging pants, tshirts/sweatshirts. Ramen noodles were typically used for the base of every meal. You could add chili and summer sausage, jalapenos, cheese etc...you could buy pop, chips, little debbie, etc...We made tattoo guns out of walkmans and passed time that way. I played a lot of poker and spades for money (money was considered items bought from the store). It wasn't that horrible of an experience. Around 2001-2002 the prisons did start to get more strict, but it still wasn't that bad. Were you ever beaten? I got into a few fights, I didn't win them all, but I wouldn't say that I took a "beating". More like roughed up a little bit. Did anybody ever try to rape you? No. In the 80's and early/mid 90's prisons were a lot tougher than they are now (ie Richard Speck leaked video). I imagine that still goes on somewhat in the maximum security prisons, but I didn't spend a significant amount of time there so I can't speak on it. Was it the greatest moment of your life when you got out of jail? Can't even put it into words Do employers hold your jail experience against you in trying to get a job? The application didn't ask if I was ever convicted of a crime. In the interview I kept my hand out of sight. I got the job, showed great work ethic and never complained about hours or tasks. I was promoted several times and I am now the GM of the company (only person above me is the owner). I staff and oversee a couple stores, route all deliveries, inventory control, hire/fire, A/R, manage all aspects of Penske truck rental done out of one of our locations, etc... My employer asked what the tattoo's meant on my hand, I gave him a smile and said, "product of a misspent youth" and we left it at that. If I told him about my past he probably wouldn't believe me, I've changed that much in my day to day life. What is your profession? I work for a rental company. We set up tents for weddings, festivals, etc... Thanks tuna. This stuff is so interesting. No problem, buddy. You guys keep me up to date and entertained with White Sox news/rumors/opinions every day, it's the least I could do. Tuna, I just went back in the thread to see if you answered my questions. Thank you very much. I don't know why, I'm in an emotional mood this week since my buddy's wife was deemed cancer free after 6 months of chemo, but I teared up reading your responses when you said the best feeling was the day you got out of jail. You just seem like a good person and even though I don't know you I'm glad you turned your life around. This is ironic because from what you wrote, in a different time and place you'd have beaten the hell out of me if I wandered in the way of your gang. Thanks for your answers. It's very educational for me. I've always wanted to volunteer in Leavenworth prison in some capacity but have always been afraid to do so. Do you think it's worth being a volunteer in some capacity or do you think it's all fake for the prisoners and they don't really want Bible study/and or English classes, etc? Thanks Tuna. You are da man.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Oct 10, 2012 -> 06:52 PM) Oh the irony You mean Ozzie? Ozzie doesn't care bout a little message board so I got to fight his battle for him.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 10, 2012 -> 07:27 PM) To who, his brother? The biggest thing with Peavy is if the insane workload this year will have a negative impact on his arm next year. I think the fact he makes a big stink whenever they try to take him out of games leads to his over-use. So when you sign Peavy, remember you are signing a guy who is still gonna be pitching in the 7th 8th inning for the most part. In those innings he may get rocked. I'd pass on Peavy and use the money to reacquire you-know-who.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 10, 2012 -> 03:40 PM) He did. The chancellor already gave him an A, and the professor who gave him a B has been expelled to Miami. Excellent. But why did you have to get involved then? He had it under control apparently.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 03:14 PM) D = Performed at a level below his pay grade and/or fell below expectations: Humber Liriano Stewart Lillibridge Septimo Morel Fukudome I won't disagree with you, but it's kind of crazy a guy gets a D the same year he throws a perfect game.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 10, 2012 -> 04:47 PM) The other thing we have to consider is that Jake Peavy does like pitching here, and he has made a lot of money already. He had to be talked into coming to pitch for the White Sox, he has switched to/hired an agent that is very friendly with the White Sox front office, and has stated repeatedly that he loves pitching for the White Sox. I think if they are serious about keeping him, he'll be serious about staying with the Sox. I think he ends up testing free agency but ultimately leaves a lot of money on the table and returns to the Sox. No baseball player "leaves a lot of money on the table." He can be just as happy somewhere else, believe me. I doubt most baseball players would even leave $1 million on the table.Some might not let it get to that point, however. Some might sign extensions or their first big contracts quietly and not let it get to free agency.

You know what amuses me? IMO Rios and Dunn are untradeable, but as soon as Rios and Dunn become free agents, somebody will sign them to a similarly ridiculous free agent contract and probably shortly after that team will try to get rid of them. Ditto Peavy. He'll sign some ridiculous deal again and shortly after he'll be on the market. Baseball economics intrigues me. I figure in a year or two we'll be hearing how Pujols is available and the Angels are desperately trying to dump his contract.

What's with Sandusky saying he's innocent? He should be worried about making amends so God forgives him rather than denying these acts. What a f***. How bout his victims. Way to apologize to them, you f***ing prick.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 08:04 PM) When they are a freshman in college getting a 95% in a senior level class and the instructor gives Johnny a B because he got a C on his final, you bet your ass I'm going to be defend little Johnny. No offense, but why can't he fight his own battle? Go to the chancellor if he has to. The kid doesn't need a parent stepping in. Just my opinion. I fought city hall a lot when I was in college, without help of my parents.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 06:32 PM) I'm glad some of you guys continue to argue with GregBot. It's amusing. I am not a bot. I just refuse to bury those responsible for the best month of my sports life. It was heaven. Man, you give a guy a B and people get upset. Sound like parents who can't handle little Johnny or Jane getting a B instead of an A when a B is a good grade.

QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 11:02 AM) Tired of being perennial losers. I call it Cleveland Syndrome. I think you are right. QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 04:08 PM) Yes, I thought that was bulls***. You cheer a big hit. You don't cheer for the guy getting knocked out from the big hit. The audio clip from one of the KC players explaining his disgust over that is a good listen. Yeah the KC offensive lineman was shaking he was so mad. He said today he realizes it wasn't 70,000 fans cheering like he initially stated, but still stands by what he said. A lot of fans called talk shows Monday and said they were pretty disgusted as people were high-fiving each other when Cassel got hurt. I'm sure a social scientist would have a lot to say about this issue.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 08:01 AM) You've b****ed more about this year more than you've b****ed about any other year before, or so it seems. Well I'm done b****ing except in threads about Ozzie. Maybe it's the first year of post-Ozzie finally being over. Hopefully it'll be a productive offseason and maybe next year things will click better from start through finish.I wonder how soon before the Sox will start making some moves? I would think a decision on AJP is coming very soon. If we don't keep him, I'd think we could use a decent backup to go with Flowers.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 9, 2012 -> 02:05 AM) I am arguing 2005 is the outlier in Ozzie's record. Why wouldn't I believe that? What else has he done? Nothing. His massive failures way outnumber his massive successes. Ventura took a team that was clearly less talented than him, and won six more games than Ozzie did, year over year. I personally thought Oz's overall body of work was pretty good with the best season '05 of course.

Just wanted to say I'm done being negative about the past season. I've said enough regarding my disappointment over what I considered a pretty s***ty collapse. The only negativity you'll be seeing from me will be my continued support of Ozzie. On to the offseason. I'm sick of fretting about the past season. It's ova and I'm done b****ing about it.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 04:30 PM) And yet you want/wanted to give life contracts to your favorite players. GTFO That's as things stand currently in baseball. In a perfect world, there would be no huge contracts and tickets would cost half as much as they do now; ditto parking and price of a f***ing hot dog.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 01:58 PM) I say the White Sox won in 2005 in spite of Ozzie, not because of him. Prove me wrong. I really can't believe you posted that. Are you serious? QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 01:59 PM) This really wasn't a playoff team this year. It was a team that could have gotten to the playoffs, but pretty much the entire universe had the Tigers pegged as the playoff team out of the AL Central. Even with under performing what they should have done by 8-10 games, they will won the division. The people doing the predicting figured Rios, Dunn, Peavy and AJP would suck. They all had excellent years, pretty much erasing the predictions. QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 04:23 PM) I'm going to keep reposting this. When I get time I'll get the records of every season. Geez I don't have a memory like some of you guys. I can't remember seasons til I look it all up. Didn't we win over .500 almost every year Oz was here? QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 05:08 PM) How about the absolutely brutal decision in Game 3 of the World Series by Ozzie to bring in the injured, rusty Dustin Hermanson to face Jason Lane instead of Jenks? Lane doubled to tie up the score in the 8th and sent the game to extras. I can't believe this post. You are bringing up something like this in a postseason we won all but one fricking game?? Do you understand how many moves Ozzie made that were excellent?? QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 08:13 PM) So Ozzie couldn't get s*** done with pretty much the same team last year and Robin actually gets absolutely no credit (hell, negative credit according to you) for motivating and getting these players to play better and back to their career norms? I gave Robin a frickin B. I can't imagine anybody giving him an A after that epic collapse. An embarrassing collapse.

This was a playoff team this year (once Dunn and Rios and AJP showed they came to play right out of the gate) and didn't even make the playoffs. Yet Robin is beloved just cause he never opened his mouth and the Sox were out of the news all year. Makes no sense to me. This year was a colossal failure led by Robin and nobody cares cept 4-5 of us on this board. Weird. (And I gave Robin a B. I don't want him fired).

Do you guys think KC fans are animals for cheering when Cassel got laid out and hurt today? KC fans caught some grief for booing Cano and his dad incessantly at the All-Star home run derby and they caught grief locally for booing Cassel mercilessly at the MLB All-Star celebrity softball game in which they also booed Bill Self out of the stadium. So are KC fans animals or supressed or ?

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 04:46 AM) Not when your SPs are cruising and their pitch counts were under control like they were. It'd take a pretty stupid manager to pull those guys. Once again was it Robins fault Dunn and PK combined for a .220 average for the final month of the season? I have no problem saying "congrats to Ozzie for winning in 05" but I won't praise him for his career here. With that pitching staff in 05 I dont care who the manager was you're gonna win with the type of seasons those guys had. It's chicken and egg. Did the pitchers perform well in part because of their supportive manager? Just as some people give Robin an A for getting an "underachieving team to earn their paychecks" why doesn't Ozzie get credit for taking the team even further in '05?? Was the team in 05 that much better on paper???

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 03:22 AM) C'mon man, was it his fault the 3-4 hitters we're hitting around .220 for the final 2 months?? (more than likely due to injury) Are failed stolen bases really his wrong doing What's the etc.? As far as the early exits go, looking at the box scores, the pitch counts, and who they are I don't think they we're bad moves at all. This isn't 05 where we had 5 horses in rotation, we had 3 first time starters, a guy coming off surgery, a wild Liriano, and Gavin Floyd. I'm just saying he doesn't deserve an A after the collapse. Nothing wrong with a B. The team should be ashamed of itself not getting an A for the manager.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Oct 8, 2012 -> 03:16 AM) This is one of your weaker arguments greg. He left the starters in? Um, there was only one game in which our starters struggled. They dominated the rest of that postseason. Pinch hitting Geoff Blum is a better argument, and even then, that's pretty weak. Come on, a lot of managers would have yanked the starters for some lefty/right late-game crap and definitely would have went with closers. I wish you guys would either give Ozzie a ton of credit or blast Robin as much as you are blasting Ozzie. Robin was in charge of a late-season collapse that frankly was an embarrassment. The team went with a whimper. So either praise Ozzie for completing the deal in 05 or blast Robin as you would have blasted Ozzie had he been this year's skipper in charge of that choke-job of the last several weeks. I'm not about to turn on the guy who actually engineered a season that ended in a parade.

It's OK that they are bringing everybody back, but tell the truth: Manto did no better than Walker and Robin did no better than Ozzie. Just new faces. And Coop is OK, he is no guru. If he was a guru, then Thornton and Myers would not have given up so many big hits. And our starters would not have fallen apart late.