Chisoxfn

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jul 27, 2006 -> 11:17 AM) The Tigers have managed to go 4 months without "comming down to earth", what makes you think they'll do that now? Just curious. Even if the TIgers don't, the Sox just need to play good baseball the rest of the way (something they haven't done in a few weeks). They do that and they'll be at least in a position to win the WC. With the way the Tigers are playing you can't expect anything, although if they hit a slide it will be interesting to see if they can dig themselves out. Hell I'm still interested in seeing if the Sox can or if we should just hire a new manager at the end of the season.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Jul 26, 2006 -> 10:29 AM) rumor is based on conjecture and as a result, no 3rd team is named. Gracias

In the midst of studying so don't have time to read this whole thread. Can anyone sum things up, are these rumors hot or more preliminary discussion. Also have any names officially been linked to this rumor (in the sense of the 3rd team involved and names other than Zito that are a part of it)?

QUOTE(Jake @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 02:44 PM) Although he isn't having a great year, would the Sox pursue Haigwood again if they were dealing with Texas? I'd have to think that the fact that they traded them speaks volumes of where they thought he would be. Not saying he won't be a good player, but teams usually try there best to trade guys they don't have projected as high as others. Kenny has very few guys on his board and everyone else is available if it gets him what he wants. In the case of guys on his board, he's reluctant to deal them and would demand a guy that would not only help the team now but years down the road (giving up Olivo/Reed/Chris Young are the only 3 that I think were on his big board).

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 02:20 PM) I really would bet that is what Kenny is waffling over....Sweeney. That could definately be the 3rd player. Kenny may say hey take Owens and another prospect. It could also be Liotta, who despite falling down a bit this year, the Sox may feel he's under-valued at this point. However, if the team could replace Sweeney, even better, but I make this deal if we plan on making a serious effort at bringing back Alfy.

QUOTE(Jake @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 02:16 PM) Yeah, Kenny, Soxtalk's servers are begging you, get this deal over with! I want the deal to happen. We made a change to the server set up this morning to increase connections by about 300% and I am curious to see if we did it properly (we may have to make one change) so I'm open to anything that puts a lot of pressure on the server so we can see what this baby could handle. It was flying after we made some adjustments last night with 240 plus members on. Lets break 400 again and than 500 when we repeat

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 02:16 PM) Stark's latest report claims that while Kirkijan still claims that the White Sox and Nationals are in talks, the deal was never extremely close. He says that most GM's aren't buying the rumors, and are wondering how Bowden could do this deal this early if both Fields and McCarthy are unavailable. States that Bowden is still inviting offers. Speculates KW may be trying to put a package together that includes Broadway, Sweeney, and Liotta, but those aren't the kind of blue chip prospects Bowden is looking for. That is the deal you may take on Sunday, but not on Tuesday. Interesting and that seems like a very fair package. I know a lot of people would hate us giving up Sweeney, but if the Sox plan on keeping Soriano than we may not need Sweeney. Of course Sweeney could replace Dye in time, but thats still a ways down the road and we could always opt for something else or trade for a prospect of sorts.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 02:15 PM) Hey ChiSoxfn, when this gets super long, could you just merge it with the locked thread and we'll start another. I have a feeling people will have at least 120 more pages of discussions on Soriano. Soriano = Griffey & Chavez combined in terms of discussion on this board. If it comse to that definately. Of course I'm hoping the next thread will be the one where we change this to announcing the deal as being OFFICIAL.

I know we did this a few times with the Griffeytalk last year and some of the other rumors so its always nice to have a thread where people can come to and look for the most recent info: It appears the two clubs are still talking and that the Sox are still the favorites. According to Kurkijian the package is believed to involve 3 players, one of which Levine has reported to potentially be Broadway (someone the Sox have been hesitant to give up) and the major holdup (again according to Kurkijian) is on the 3rd player in the deal. Here's some food for thought: Broadway, Pods, Tracey for Soriano They get a leadoff hitter who they can put in LF and control his rights for another couple years (or they could move him), a pretty good RHP pitching prospect that could be ready for the majors in a year (not saying he'd be good in a year, but I think he could handle himself sometime next year) and a guy like Tracey who could pitch now (maybe we give them a 4th prospect, in this case, being a low level minor leaguer). Nats get some talent, Sox get there guy without giving up McCarthy or any other starter.

This is a good move by the Royals. The Dodgers are probably paying most of his salary and Dessens isn't going to help them. Perez, if on, is a pretty darn solid lefty who could get them a few pretty good prospects a year from now. Plus they got a few minor leaguers (no idea if they are any good) to go with Perez. When your the Royals, try and stock yourself with as much talent as possible and than see what sticks.

By the way, with this thread getting so huge, we'll carry discussion over to a new thread. I think 62 pages is a good even number. This way new people can come in pretty quickly and figure out whats going on.

QUOTE(S720 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 01:39 PM) You as well as I do NOT know that! Since the Allstar game, our offense has been so terrible and inconsistent. Adding more woes to that, our pitching starters haven't fared too well either. If the pitching is not doing good, BA with his great defensive skills will not be able to do anything! If getting Soriano is to ignite whatever underneath the team to fire them up, so be it! Of course, if I have a choice, I will MUCH prefer to have Soriano AND BA, but if we have to give up BA in order to get Soriano, I will DO it. Offenses are streaky, defenses tend not to be and it would be in our best interest to always put the best defense on the field. We have offensive weapons, they are in a slump. BA should be playing everyday in CF and if we could move Pods in a Soriano package I do it. Otherwise I try and get a righty bat that cna play some defense as a 4th outfielder and call it a trade deadline.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 02:02 PM) 4 pm update on ESPN1000, the update guy quoted Bruce Levine as saying the White Sox and Nationals are talking, and the White Sox are putting together a package of prospects, possibly to include Lance Broadway. It seems like the Tigers best prospects are both hurt and with the Tigers now having a bigger lead I think they are starting to think and wonder whether they should risk making a big move. The Angels aren't a team known to overpay while the Twins could definately use him but they may be hesitant to give up whats necessary. Nor do I really think they have the mixture of prospects that the Sox have. A lower budget team like the Twins can't afford to give up a ton of prospects for a guy they may lose. A 100 mill payroll team has a bit more leeway. On Around the Horn, Marriotti really stuck up for BA and thats nice to see. I actually like Jay on around the horn for the most part.

QUOTE(bbmom @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 01:23 PM) Kind of makes me wonder..........Russell and Harrell first game in Birmingham, they both got rocked....Liotta and Rodriguez come back to W.S and their second games are almost back where they used to be.... I think part of it just has to deal with them pushing themselves a bit. I know Harrell had an early jam but than got rolling. It could just be the FutureSox jinx, we interview them, and than the following starts they get shelled (Hopefully after the fact they'll get back on a roll). Both have emerged as solid prospect. Harrell has a bit more upside than Russell, but both should be guys to watch this year and in the coming years.

QUOTE(atrain081 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 01:10 PM) strong words lol You guys don't have to worry about him anymore. He is just trolling and that isn't something thats tolerated.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:43 PM) Its probably also worth noting that at least one of his major injury problems in the past has been, by a couple of sources I read yesterday, due in part to bad Mechanics (helped lead to his elbow problem in 04). As we've seen before, and recently, bad mechanics are things that can be fixed by the right pitching coach. Cooper now has a heck of a glut of talent in that bullpen to work with. Hopefully he has enough time in the day to deal with them all, especially given where the starters are right now. Oh, and his injury problems have in the past contributed to all those blown saves people were talking about a few posts ago. Mechanically he's made a few changes, but the key will obviously be watching him carefully and I'm sure Coop has already been looking at film to see if there is anything that really stands out. Sometiems a change of perspective can help. Plus after two injuries I'm sure he'd be willing to listen. Its a risky move but there is no doubt this guy has an arm that would make him one of the best relievers in baseball if he stayed healthy and threw strikes.

QUOTE(CWSOX45 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:43 PM) Heath Phillips and Chuck Haeger maybe, what about Jeff Farnsworth? They did lose Majewski earlier this season in a trade with the Reds. If it was Pods, Broadway and one of Haeger/Phillips I'd consider the deal a relative steal simply because I don't see Phillips having an impact with the White Sox nor do I see Haeger. Thats not saying they won't be good major league pitchers, but the thing is they don't have a place here. If it was Haeger or Phillips, Broadway and Fields...that seems like fair value on both sides, but I'd love it if we didn't have to give up one of Fields/Broadway. On a sidenote, I'd rather trade Fields but I think the Nats want pitching more than hitting. However, Jerry Owens (once traded by the Nats) is a kind of throw in that could intrigue them.

QUOTE(BDavisFutureHOF @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:34 PM) Unless I am out of the loop -- the one name that I haven't heard Kenny completely shoot down is Sweeney. Did miss something? Maybe a package starting with Pods, Sweeney and Haegar Sweeney and Fields aren't apparently safe (doesn't mean they are) as is BMac and the rest of the ML rotation. Some reports say Broadway is untouchable as well, but I think thats a negotiating ploy and if he is untouchable, it tells me the Sox really like him as a prospect (which I'd consider a good thing). QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:40 PM) You're right. Soriano is a better defender than Podsednik. GET'EM KENNY! They both get lousy jumps, the only difference is Soriano is actually new to the position so he could actually improve. Plus Soriano has a pretty solid arm and has been able to throw guys outs, something Pods could do to save his life.

QUOTE(Mr. Showtime @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:17 PM) Tim is on ESPNnews now talking about it. Not much of an update, said Nats-Sox trying to find a 3rd guy to add to deal since no BMac. Said it still could happen. So, nothing we didn't know. It sounds like the holdup is who the 3rd guy would be. I have no idea if the first two are Fields and Broadway or some other combo (not including Felds but rather Pods) and than the question is who the 3rd prospect is. Either way its very interesting and I think in general it could help to get a few fresh attitudes/faces in here to try and break up the downer the clubhouse has become during this slump. I'd really love it if a real jokester would be out there that could come in and losen the clubhouse. QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:27 PM) Podsednik and prospects, if the media reports are to be believed, Washington asked for Broadway and KW said no. Basically this is a poker game right now. Washington wants pitching prospects that are a year or two away, if not 2007 ready. One things certain, they want guys that will be able come up this year or next year. Its pretty evident that they don't want 2008 or later guys because if that were the case they'd might as well get the first round draft picks and test there luck with those. That makes me think, unless its a final prospect, all of the guys included would be in AA or higher.

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 11:31 AM) Here's Keith Law's (ESPN) take on the trade. I think this guy is a very good commentator who has a handle on minor league talent. ****************** If healthy, MacDougal's an upgrade. Monday, July 24, 2006 The White Sox's bullpen was one of its strengths in 2005, but the collapse of last year's setup man, Cliff Politte, and the offseason trade of Luis Vizcaino to Arizona left a void between the starters and closer Bobby Jenks that no newcomer was able to fill. Mike MacDougal has thrown just four innings since coming off the disabled list earlier this month but appears to be healthy, and in a tiny sample this year, has induced eight groundouts against just one flyout. He's one of the few pitchers in the majors who can miss bats and can get groundballs, so if he's healthy, he'll be a significant upgrade in the ChiSox's bullpen. This marks the first trade of the Dayton Moore Era in Kansas City, and it's a sensible one, as Moore moved one of his most tradable and least necessary assets (a closer) and added two arms to his farm system, addressing the organization's primary weakness. Like MacDougal, lefty Tyler Lumsden has had injury problems, missing all of 2005 after surgery to remove bone chips from his throwing elbow. Lumsden has an average fastball with good sink, a plus breaking ball and good control, but he hasn't had the strikeout rate you'd like to see in a starting pitching prospect; at worst, he should be an asset out of the bullpen due to his ability to get right-handers out as well as lefties. The Royals also acquired Dan Cortes, a 6-foot-5, 205-pound, 19-year-old right-hander who was Chicago's seventh-round pick in 2005. He has a fringe-average fastball and flashes a plus breaking ball at times but is still raw and has a fair amount of projection. He's an ideal second guy in a trade, especially given the paucity of pitching in the Royals' system. This is by far the best writeup I've seen on the trade. I think he's pretty accurate with the talk of the prospects. As much as I like Lummy, I think he is best suited as a damn good lefty reliever as opposed to a starter (thats because I don't think he has enough secondary stuff). In Cortes case, he's raw with a good arm and thats real nice for the Royals cause they get two guys with some talent. In MacDougal's case, I was talking ot my dad and he was watching the Royals game and was telling me that Mac came in and looked downright unhittable against the Angels in a game. Said he was popping it into the upper 90's with a nice breaking ball (slider). He gets good sink on his fastball and I think it will be a big benefit for him to come to a winning team for the first time in his career. He's going to really want to win and I think that type of attitude is something good to have (since he has never won in his career so a different kind of fire will be there).

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2006 -> 12:04 PM) At some point with him, do we just get to the "Let Cooper keep working with him and hope for the best" phase? Can't recall who, but at least one person was saying that Cooper has really been working with Vaz on improving his pitching with runners on base. We've seen what he can do for 5 innings, if he can just hold it together a little more and find a groove, he could really help us. Then again, maybe I'm just hoping Cooper can do something he just can't do. Thats been me and I saw major strides in Javy's game yesterday with runners on. He was using a higher leg kick (which is how he pitches with no one on) and it helps to keep his delivery slower without getting out in front and rolling his breaking balls. I see absolutely no reason to move him from the rotation. I have a lot of faith in this guy turning it around and being a front line pitcher for us for a number of years. Call me insane, call me whatever you want but I've seen progress made and I expect it to continue to be made. Sox fans will be thanking Ozzie and Coop for this later on in the season, just like they should already be thanking Ozz for being patient with BA (Something I have long said they had to do). I have no problem with McCarthy joining the rotation next year when we move Garcia for prospects and financial flexibility.

Even at the major league level, batters had trouble squaring up on him. The problem was he was a little over his head and wasn't getting used enough. Its hard for any guy, especially one thats coming from A ball, to be able to pitch successfully when they are rarely out there. Obviously he had some major mental gaffes (fielding wise) but he's made some serious strides in Charlotte and is a legit major league reliever and I think a lot of teams would like having a lefty like that (even if he is rather unproven).

Steve Phillips was just on ESPN saying he likes the deal for the Sox, but wants to know whether the defense will hold up with Soriano in left and Pods in center. Didn't really add any new info to the deal.

If a team is in rebuilding mode, I watch the games with a different mindset, but when we have a team with this type of talent, I expect the playoffs. At that point anything can happen but one thing I hate to see is a team that underachieves and thats exactly whats happening right now and its frustrating. They have no positive thinking going on and are burying themselves deeper and deeper into a rut with every game. Somewhere along the line they will need some sort of a major momentum changer to help losen this team back up. THey had a swagger most of the year and thats been gone as of late and because of that everyone's pressing and struggling.

New York, Philly DC, Bmore between Aug 16 and 21st or so.