Chisoxfn

Them, a Mason Adams, are all in play I think.

Is that a Mets leak...I'd say that is a pretty good deal for the Mets on an expiring starter who has been at best league average and in reality he's been a negative WAR pitcher this year. Club better think they have a way to fix things otherwise I don't see this being that attractive. I don't mind those names being dangled (although I think Boston Smith is going to keep rising).

I think he showed when his command was there at the big league level his stuff played just fine, but he still had to tighten that command up a bit more to have sustained success at the big league level. And it isn't that his command was bad, but early on as a rookie I think he had the typically rookie struggle where you over threw a bit and hadn't yet settled. Plus it takes a bit to really learn how to make adjustments against big leaguers as well. I think a healthy Thorpe has a very clear floor as a #3 or #4 starter. Dude is a very solid pitcher. I also don't think he has much chance of being a #1 or #2 to be clear.

Agree with you completely on McDougal.

If I'm giving up someone like Carlson I like this approach far more then the Detmers type of moves. Presuming no one thinks Webb is due for a longer-term regression (ie is his stuff declining). Also make sure he profiles okay at the Rate vs. Oracle.

Schultz clearly has shown sustained periods (in the minors) of elite stuff, with inconsistent mechanics and command. He also is very lengthy which can make repeatability a bit of a challenge early in their careers. These are the exact type of individuals you do not give up on. He's still 22 year's old and has 6 more years of control as well. I would not be surprised if he was one of the better LHP's in all of baseball for a good chunk of that time. Hagen Smith is a bit different, as his sustained periods of elite stuff has been a little more mixed as he really exploded in his final college season and then has flashed it at times in the minors, but with a bit less consistency as he's worked through mechanical issues. I have less conviction here than I do with Noah, but I am still pretty convinced worse case you are talking about a guy who is an elite set-up man and best case he has what it takes to be a front of the rotation pitcher (ie a 1, 2, or #3 pitcher in a rotation). McDougal is close to Schultz in my mind, with the major question here (as with all pitchers) being sustainable health. But I think his floor is the highest of this trio of prospects and I am a bit dissaopinted we couldn't continue to stretch him out so he could build on his 110+ innings last year in the minors, because right now it is pretty clear he's going to see a substantial set back in innings pitched as the club worked to get him stretched out for the rotation. With that said - his stuff is high end - he has the physical build you look for in front of the rotation starters, and as a floor, I think he will be an excellent reliver, but would hate to see him limited there. He has been consistently excellent after whatever adjustments he made from 24 into 25. Note: How they develop and what the right mix of minor league development vs. major league development will be key. I don't know what it is, but I think McDougal is the individual of the trio who will have more immediate sustained MLB success because I think his command and repeatability is best suited mixed with that stuff. Not saying he's going to come out and be an ace right away, but I think he'll be a serviceable big leaguer out of the gate and then grow from there.

McDougall is a long term front of the rotation starter if his arm is healthy. Meanwhile he will be able to make an impact in our bullpen down the stretch I think.

That is what my eye test tells me - he is throwing a sinker that is pure lethal. 102 mph sinker is something I’ve never seen thrown.

Will Twins pick up the payroll or pay a bit more on prospect side.

Solid reliever - wonder what the cost was?

I don’t want to see Detmers and Sox. I want to see Sox next to expiring starters who have been good but with big contracts that allow us to give minimal draft capital. If you give elite talent - be like Preller and go get elite talent back (not mediocre guys like Reid Detmer)

I will be so pissed if we trade an elite prospect at a premium for a slightly above average starter because he has control. Would be awful. Ray or Clay Holmes are better than Detmers and either and or both could be had without giving up one of our high upside guys. How stupid could we be if we gave up the better prospect solely to have an extra year of control with a payroll that is as low as this clubs.

I think he can very much be a Kyle Hendricks type - which is pretty darn solid and valuable.

I think back in 94 no one got paid but a deal came off the contract…meaning Mune would be a free agent

I am dreaming of Skubal to the Sox for 5yr 250 under the new CBA! Will be like the post lockout Albert Belle 5yr 55M move (but will work way better!)

I’m very excited for the positional talent and what’s coming given what we have seen. I hope we have an ownership group and front office that can supplement it with some free agent pitching. Stick to using some payroll 💪 and not use top 10 prospects to add some expiring pitching depth to help now. Dont pay a premium for mediocre cost control when we have a 50/50 chance that the premium you pay for cost control gets wiped by a lockout.

Wow awesome!

Well that is awful decision making by the White Sox if they are willing to give up a high upside prospect like Carlson for a pitcher like Detmers. It is paying a premium for cost control vs. eliteness and that is not a trade off this organization should ever make. If you want to move Carlson in a package for Miller - I don't love it, but I get behind the fact you are getting an elite cost controlled player, but at a less premium position. That is an acceptable trade off.

I think the Sox get 2 starting pitchers from the group of (High Contract / Eat Money (Castillo / Ray), and then one of Singer/Mets crew), a catcher, and their splash move is Mason Millers (headlined by one of our SS prospects). The splash move is not one I would like to make but I think Getz is going to go big and maybe than leverages Millers and someone else to swing for a TOR guy later in another year (or they explore developing Miller into that TOR guy).

Not what you want to do - but what do you predict?

I still am probably more bullish on the long-term pitching prognosis, but this season's actual productivity certainly hasn't helped the cause. I still generally believe the following individuals who are close to the big leagues who will have sustained success at the big league level in the long-run (presuming health): In no particular order: Schultz, Hagen, MacDougall, Thorpe, Sandlin; Mason Adams I'm less confident in but could as easily see working out; For sakes of simplicity I'm ignoring the waves at the lower levels (and in fairness I'm also not saying there are waves). I also believe Martin and Burke are long-term big league pitchers (not saying either are aces or sustained TOR guys though). Note: I do think this points out that the Sox have a need, whether now or next year - to go out and acquire a TOR pitcher and I believe they have the system depth to do it - but I also would hope with new ownership and potential changes to CBA, we may actually have the free agent market to tap (new CBA with 5 year max deal for FA pitcher is a big game changer in my mind).

This is where I really support using payroll here. Then if you use one of Mason Adams or Sandlin as the headline in a package for one of the Mets pitchers (probably something else too) then I think it feels reasonable and makes us better. I'm not using top 10 or game changing players for non game-changing rentals. If you want to go big and get a Skubal then I get it. If you go for Miller, I get it (for the control) - not my primary move, but you get an elite guy in his spot for a few years. Giving up a top 10 + package for someone like Detmers, just feels odd - get an equal player via rental and then look longer term in the off-season where hopefully ownership can lean a bit into the payroll flexibility they have (while maintaining a better farm system to support the big league club via future trades or developing guys onto the big league squad). Count me out on Detmers unless package is around Sandlin / Mason Adams (I'd be totally good with that - but can't imagine the Angels are).

I’d prefer a combo of ray, singer and the Mets guy.

He has been terrible for Cubs this year but only made 2 starts since coming back from his hamstring injury (awful starts). Was solid past two years and shouldn’t be past his prime yet. Could a change of scenery work? I’m not opposed to it given fact we can’t keep running Schultz out there. Or piggy back him with someone else.

I agree - If this were last year, I’d be fine with it, but with the pressure of the race I think it is too much to ask. I’m still very bullish on Schultz but they clearly have botched their approach to him this year. What I am hoping is he is closer than we think. Last two starts before tonight stuff was weak but command better…today for 3 innings crisp…4th inning came apart again. Big guys can get out of whack quick, especially early in their careers but I’m hoping he’s due for a break through but I think you got to let it happen in more controlled situations right now.