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Ahh ok but I find it odd that when you look at the Mets idea of shedding salary among position players the names thrown around are guys not making much like JD Davis and McNeil. The higher paid position players they have are the guys they just signed like Marte and Canha and the burdensome contract of Cano. I don't see how they can shed much salary among those 3. unless they find a sucker for Cano or trade Lindor or McCann.

Well he was a pitcher and knows the Sox have some groundball pitchers and are targeting another GB pitcher with Kelly. The Sox have tunnel vision with these type of relievers. A doubleplay is a pitcher's best friend.

He's not wrong. Rodon at his best puts you over the top which is why SF took the leap.

If you look up the salary of Keuchel and McNeil plus throw in $10M Sox save about $6M. This is my best guess based on looking at their salaries yesterday but not confirming them today.

Because top guys cost way more and sign for many years. If you can get a top guy for one great year and only sign him for 2 years $44M is nothing. Some teams are just not as risk adverse. Winning is more important. You're also thinking he get's injured for both years and with that thinking yes that contract would suck. Now with those innings under his belt from last year he's more likely to go a full season. He wasn't injured last year and his pitching showed that any previous injuries weren't a cause for concern. They also think that because of the mechanical changes last year with Katz that he might be less of an injury risk.

I think Robinson Cano and his massive salary for this year and next tops that list.

From people who have been carrying buckets for the FO since the QO wasn't offered. There just had to be a good reason because the Sox FO, after all, had more info than we did. All those people who thought he was injured not just tired.

Every year there are tons of injury wild cards. The Sox are loaded with them as are most every team. I don't see an angry tone except to say ,did the Sox FO really do what was best for the team ? Why give up a draft choice ? Even if you weren't sure a comp pick would exist next year you have to assume it would be. You don't just throw away high draft picks. Never give the Sox FO the benefit of the doubt on making the right moves even if it seems like a no brainer.

Hey you know how the Sox are relief pitcher happy. Maybe if they got a bug up their ass about getting into the Japanese market again you can get Kikuchi and Suzuki.

Yeah I guess they are smarter than SF FO .

Planning to corner the market on relief pitchers.

There aren't a whole lot of veteran pitchers who aren't damaged goods and even less coming of a pretty good year who gutted it out for his team despite the tired arm but uninjured arm. Lots of people round here want to trade for Bassitt and look at his health record of the past 6 yrs. One guy here thinks Rodon was a terrible idea while thinking at the same time Kopech is going to be the Ace this year. Kopech will be treated the way Rodon should have been treated last year, 5 innings max and out of the game. They won't take a chance of him running out of gas for the playoffs if the Sox can make the playoffs I' guessing 100 innings for the season and whatever he has left saved for the post season . Good luck Los . If the Sox don't make it to the World Series I hope San Fran does and you get to pitch in it and lead them to victory !

Probably so but the contract Rodon gets will tell us one way or another what teams think of his meds, his medical history and how confident they are that his mechanics are much improved based on his work with Katz.

Sure once he was resigned it was. But what if he didn't resign ? Then you lose Rodon and Lynn and your starting pitching going into the most important years of the window isn't playoff caliber or might not even get you to the playoffs.

Hmm best pitcher in baseball last year for the 1st half of the season who's arm predictably got weary who is 29 and who other clubs have looked at his meds and aren't scared off vs. a pitcher who has only 2 full years out of the last 6 that he threw complete seasons and is 33. I'll go with paying just money for Rodon . I also don't think a some creative trades are out of the question in which multiple pieces are moved for younger talent . Youth for youth but also Kimbrel and Keuchel for a bigger contract then those 2 combined. Time is a factor but simplifying things and going for another 1 yr contract for a pitcher with an extensive injury history while giving up depth and youth isn't the answer.

Maybe so but it shouldn't have left the harbor. The QO should 've been given. There's no ifs ands and buts about it now if teams are offering him 50M+. I don't think a Keuchel-like offer is out of the question but is it enough ?

A lot of this place hated the Melky and LaRoche deals. I was pretty sure I hated the Laroche deal but didn't hate the Melky deal. But plenty of people hated both.

When I have trouble making up my mind on an issue I just think how could the Sox FO have fucked this up. A lot of people here stuck up for the Sox FO because of the "they know him best" routine so there must be something wrong with him. I took the opposite approach that he was fine, just worn out. His innings pitched the last few years indicated way ahead of time that he would likely wear down. Plus he did make starts down the stretch and one in the playoffs right ? I might think the Sox FO is terrible but I don't think they would have started Rodon if there was anything structurally wrong with his arm. So that left some other odd unknown reason why they didn't use the QO and there's the FO fuck up. The guy gave it everything he had last year and that's why I want him back . Oh yea along with being maybe the best pitcher in baseball the 1st half of the season.

Right I know how long the odds are that we get 2 good controlled good young players that solve SP and RF , gives the Sox another 11M under the cap and gets rid of Kimbrel and Keuchel all in one trade. But I just wanted to show that there are creative ways to approach things and lots of other players out there than to keep hearing Bassitt, Montas, Manea, Marte, Conforto.

Maybe instead of trying to get Marte you go for Zac Gallen and Dalton Varsho. Varsho is an odd combination of OF/C but if I'm not mistaken had a very nice OAA in the OF and he does bat LH. He is 24 and Gallen is 25. Throw the kitchen sink at Az. Vaughn, Burger, Sheets, Kimbrel, Keuchel Crochet, whoever. Maybe offer the Kimbrel and Keuchel contracts and take on Bumgarner's along with Gallen and Varsho.Then u have RF and SP set and all u have to replace is some relief pitching and rotate DH among our remaining old guys like Grandal , Abreu, some Eloy. You trade $34M worth of Kimbrel and Keuchel in 2022 for Bumgarners $60M through 2024 with $23M for 2022 ,so saving 11M on 2022 but gaining $23M in 2023 and $14M in 2024 and maybe give up less in prospect capital , maybe add Lopez into the deal since that's a lot of SP we are taking from AZ. Keuchel, Kimbrel, Crochet, Lopez,Vaughn+ plus taking on $26M in salary for Gallen, Varsho and Bumgarner. Gallen is Arb 3 in 2025 and Varsho is Arb 4 in 2026. Sorry I was trying to figure this all out as I was writing it. Would be a huge trade and we get decent youth with a lot of years left. Plus I was kind of sick of hearing the same old names in trades for the OF and starting pitching.

What exactly happened to Rodon has always been a topic of discussion and there is no definitive answer so I have heard your opinion before from others.I of course am of the opinion that now that he has some innings under his belt last that he is much better off mechanically from Working with Katz. This is from The Ringer: The key, Katz says, was changing how Rodón pushed off the rubber. Before, he’d been driving with just his toe, which was sending him toward first base and setting into motion all the mechanical messiness that had plagued him over the previous few years. Katz’s goal was to get Rodón to drive more off his back leg and use his entire foot to explode off the rubber. So to me it was Rodon's work with Katz that made him dominant, very dominant and I'd take the chance that he could be dominant again only for more innings this year because while he may not do everything mechanically correct he is way better than he was mechanically.

It's not pessimism it's reality. Last year I was saying very early on that once Rodon was dominant that the Sox needed to slow their roll on him because he was getting too many innings and the Sox would need him in the playoffs and it all turned out to be true. By the middle of July he had pitched 6 or more innings 8 times. After that he averaged less than 5 innings per start and was burnt out when they needed him most. Now Kopech has some built in advantage that Rodon didn't in that he pitched 69 innings last year while Rodon pitched 7.2. If you're going to say I'm pessimistic then I can say you are overly optimistic and I wish I could share that with you. I am certainly not willing to say how many innings Kopech pitches next year but I'm hoping it's around 100 innings during the season and he's fresh for another 30 innings in the playoffs if he has a good enough season to warrant it.

That's putting an awful lot of expectations on a guy who had 4 starts in 2021and had 1 start of 5 innings. It's one thing to be a dominant reliever and quite another for a guy to be a dominant starter on an innings limit and basically 0 MLB starting experience and a couple of years off before that. On top of all that to keep him fresh for the playoffs that means lots of time between starts and just how do you expect him to be our ACE when you can't pitch enough to get into a groove or find your stuff if you start having control or command issues. I have more faith in Conforto having a rebound year and being a good signing than I do in Kopech being the SOx ace or even number 3 starter in the playoffs. And I don't have all that much faith in Conforto. But I do recognize how valuable he could be because he has done it before. Kopech hasn't done anything at this level to indicate he can go from where he has been to an ACE this year. This all sounding like the Vaughn hype train once Eloy went down.

Nope, after no one believed in him in the minors because of lack of power there aren't going to be too many round these parts thinking 2021 was real. It was a fluke showing a lot of power because well umm his AB's were cherry picked ? That's the advantage of being LH ,there's a ton of RH pitchers to pick cherries from. But Vaughn was raw at the beginning of the year and tired at the end of the year and has a massive pedigree. I'd still give Vaughn a much higher chance of a better career than Sheets . But I'm not thinking either one is a finished product offensively or defensively. I'm not convinced that Vaughn is more valuable to the Sox right now then Sheets is. The operative words being "right now". Maybe they both get traded. All I know is that the Sox need a LH or TOR type starting pitcher and LH mashing. How they go about getting both will inspire plenty of Sox talking.

I'm with you. I'd sign Rodon before Conforto. Maybe if they outlawed the shift this year I'd be better with Conforto but teams are taking hits away from him. Conforto may sound like the ideal signing but it's always a scary thought to sign someone to a long term deal coming off a career worst yr., who isn't all that on defense either. I don't see the Sox signing anyone to a 4 year deal among the free agents. I don't have a RF solution but sign Rodon, get rid of Kimbrel and find a LH RF to trade for who can field. Ketel Marte ? sign Odubel Herrera ? See if the D'Backs will trade Daulton Varsho ?