CaliSoxFanViaSWside

I understand wanting EE. Most are perfecrly willing to roll with Robert and Madrigal but not Collins. I understand both Robert and Madrigal can provide good play on both defense offense and the bases and Collins may be more of an offensive player. But if everyone is using the excuse of NEEDing to compete next year how is there much difference between rolling with 3 instead of 2 rookies in the lineup ? Are we also not going to use Kopech ? Offensively Collins could add just as much as Robert. Both have big time power. Collins gets on base much better. What if Robert had come up and struggled as much as Collins ? After his disastrous 1st call up last year Collins went back down in July and proceeded to absolutely destroy AAA . About 150 AB's .340 batting average . .700+ Slg and 1.200 OPS . Just crazy good numbers .He then got called up again and did much better especially right near the end of the season; I just don't think the argument for needing to attempt to win the division holds any water when guys like Kopech Robert and Madrigal will miss many games combined before they are brought up and will all certainly have struggles similar to what Collins had. We keep hearing arguments from many learned Sox fans that the difference between Robert and Madrigal and Kopech missing games to get the extra years of control probably won't hurt the Sox in the quest for the division. So why is Collins all of a sudden the odd man out ? Is the perceived difference between Collins and EE so great or so different than the games Kopech, Robert and Madrigal will miss and the games where they will struggle ? Let the young team grow together next year. Odds are you aren't winning the division with or without Collins . They can also win it with him and without EE. Everything still depends on performances of Kopech , Robert, Madrigal, Cease Collins as a whole.

I've been liking your arguments for Collins . I only question that you accepted the hit tool argument. Yes if we look back on his early development the hit tool along with the K's and lack of reliable info on his progress of catching skills was making a lot of people nervous. There also isn't a large sample size to go with making an argument for a much improved hit tool. However in the last stage of his development at AAA with 367 PA's he hit 282. ( his highest ever batting avg.) ,403 OBP which is elite , .548 SLG.. and .961 OPS both high marks for his MiLB career. in August after he was send back down in 99 PA's he hit .338 .455 OBP and .763 SLG and 1.217 OPS . As crazy as these numbers are they might be even better if we count the 12 games in July after he was send down because his BA in those games was .348 but I can't find a way to add up the total s unless I do it myself which I'm not doing. So if there is bias because of his early career we can use the most recent bias ( which really should count the most) to build a case that his hit tool is much improved.Sox need to hold onto him at all costs.

I don't want EE to DH . I want Collins which is why I like Pence.

Have you checked his splits against lefties last year ? They were great like 1.000 OPS great and high OBP and also can hit righties in case of injury to Mazara. 18 HRs in less than 300 Ab's. EE cant replace anyone in the field.

I like this very much

No to EE yes to HP.Less DH more baseball player.

Check out Hunter Pence's splits against lefties. Over1.000 OPS . 18 HR's total in less than 300 AB's High OBP and OPS+. Hits righties well too. No idea about his defense or arm in RF and he is old but can't argue with his numbers as a platoon with Mazara. The amount he'd play against lefties seem perfect for his numbers and age and he can be another DH option. Really no reason the spend extra on a DH.

This is a name I never see mentioned, Hunter Pence. Great splits against lefties. Getting a bit long in the tooth and not a good fielder but in limited time last year accumulated a decent WAR. 126 OPS+ Hit RH 's good too and adds another DH option too. Won't need a another DH with him.

or Brock Holt who can also play RF but he's a lefty so not really a platoon guy with Mazara. He actually plays every infield position and plays LF and RF so everything but C and CF. But he sucks against lefties but great and high OBP against righties. Not much power either. Real solid player though

A few posts did not age well but I like this one the best.

You hate Collins because he can't catch . You've been beating that drum for a while.

Sox fans aren't the only ones . I've heard it on MLBN maybe from Plesac or Smoltz. And I guaranteed someone on the MLBN will say it again if there's anyone there in the next few days considering most of the regular guys are morethan likely already off for the holiday.

Nah it's just that Holt is a proven commodity, but for a small sample size Medick did great and shows more HR power than Madrigal ever will.

That's what I remember reading a few days ago. Yes both with multiple Glove Gloves, both with great pick off moves , both multiple All Stars games . Could you also say both are ground balls pitchers ? Just keep Joe West away from the plate with Keuchel on the mound or he'll call balks on him like he did with Buerhle. Didn't MB have some kind of streak going and West kicked him out of the game after calling 2 balks on him ?

Why ? Do you think Buerhle was better ? Worse ? Both soft tossing lefties who control the running game very well. Kuechel didn't allow any stolen bases against him last year.

Mr. Sunshine .

My old eyes read Scarn as Scam.

And if he doesn't work on that 3rd base is a position that will give you back troubles from lack of flexibility through your core and hamstrings.

I think if he fulfills your criteria he will get to 7 WAR easy.

Nice to know.

I needed a chance to catch up with the rest of the thread. I did respond to that post.

Thanks. I'm glad there is one. The Sox aren't the Cardinals of course but if people want to keep thinking the Sox can trade for a superstar FA to be at the age of 27 and extend him for 9/10 years for $350M+ more power to them and I will stop reminding them how it's impossible.

Freddy Garcia ? He was with the Sox for 3 years in his age 27 28 and 29 seasons then went to Philly and Detroit for 2 years then resigned with the Sox at age 32 for 3 seasons. I don't see a long term extension anywhere.

Then they better start operating more like Tampa Bay and Oakland which I have already stated multiple times that they should because I realized what you just said a while ago. I'd rather not be like Colorado extending their superstar then trying to trade him after he has no surplus value. If you can't resign them trade them and get something for them and retool on the fly like Cleveland Tampa Oakland . It seems to produce winning teams as long as you keep the flow of young talent coming in ,along with paying good talent evaluators and spending your IFA money and using developmental sciences. Problem is I also realized the Sox don't do those things either. They are a rudderless franchise and perhaps that's what hurts them more then anything.

Apparently you and a lot of others agree with that silly train of thought. From Smardizja to Betts to Lindor I have read hundreds of posts about extending a traded for player with a year or 2 left on their contracts . It doesn't happen . I've asked time and time again for examples of a new team that traded for a superstar or even a good player who ended up getting an extension. No one can find one. Impending superstar free agents want to test the market unless the team they played for up until that point extends them because of the mutual respect for each other through years of association. Best case scenario in case the Indians are stupid enough to trade Lindor ( somehow the Indians preferring a Sox package centered around Madrigal and Vaughn instead a much more attractive offer from the Dodgers ) to a divisional rival would be the Sox flipping him right away to the Dodgers to fill that #2 spot in the rotation and more like Verdugo Yes I'm repeating myself on this but that's what happens when I see talk of extensions. My silliness vs. yours.