nitetrain8601

Don't want anyone making a decision on this squad any further. It's pretty clear to see how come development of all these stud prospects has failed with no accountability after Renteria left. It's possible to have fun while holding people accountable. Maddon did it. Dusty does it. It's okay for Eloy to wear his shirt loose, pop the chest hair with the gold around his neck. It's ok for Anderson to be outspoken as well as defend himself. It's not okay that each individual team member is just that, an individual on an island by themselves forced to figure it out themselves. This team needs a FO that's held accountable, that holds their subordinates accountable and let that flow down to the minors. They need to teach analytics like launch angles. Stop suppressing pitchers and give them the role that fits them, like Kopech and closing. Lastly, this team needs to accept leadership and it's not just one guy, it needs to be multiple folks. Never thought I'd say it, but yes, this team needed Ozzie or his type to check players when they're out of line. To get on Eloy for not training properly, etc.

It's the right baseball move to pick a direction and go all in on that direction. The problem is, the Sox FO, which includes ownership, are all in on half measures. The path to contend next year is going to require spending money and making ballsy trades (now that they traded some pieces off). If you rebuild, it also requires ballsy trades, but a lot less money. They're not going to do either. And they'll continue to cite something that happened 15-20 years ago to justify decisions. The Sox are doing exactly what JR stated is always the plan - just give your fans some hope, enough to think there is effort made. For as many die hards as there are, there's a million more casuals who won't see what the sham really is. It really is a classless organization.

Darvish isn't great, but better than many starters that are available. In addition, how much does he cost? I think the Padres are going to cut some type of salary if I had to guess.

Momentum is not there for anyone in the FO to be held accountable is the biggest thing he said. He admitted to being the least plugged in now than he's ever been in the past 7 years. Agreed that the Sox have had the most success when there seemingly has been a plan, everyone on the interview didn't feel like there is a direction. Hard to give up Cease while also trying to sell fanbase that they're competing next year. Brought up Sox also don't believe in spending on starting pitching, so that's why they're not giving up on Kopech being a starter. Stated they had given Keuchel the most money to a FA starting pitcher in team's history and that also didn't work out well. For the Sox to contend next year, they'll need SP, not less. Sparknotes: Sox are as dumb as we all believe or afraid to believe they are being.

I think it has more to do with money, if anything else. And yes, it would be a little more than Cease, such as some smaller prospects. It would represent a large cost savings as well as address SP as well as open up other trades such as trading away Yu Darvish and Blake Snell.

When did Heyman say anything is on the table? In my eyes, it should be. With that stated, if the Sox are truly trying to contend by next year, I think they should look at getting solid available everyday players. And to make it quick, they will have to eat some cash. But without them willing to pay anyone, I don't forsee it. For example, I wouldn't mind a Cease for Soto swap with the Padres. Sox are too cheap and not creative enough for that, however.

Ozinga already has a field, right? Since the team is constantly a construction site and never finished, maybe Illinois Toll Authority or Local 123 will have to do. I could see the slogan now "Always Improving, Never Done". You know Hahn will run with it. Meanwhile, Chicagoans know better, "Hard Hat Area: Under constant construction. Estimated completion date: Never"

I'm in the belief that if you're going to pay for players, you pay the position players who play everyday, not pitchers unless they're HoF-potential or you're a true contender. Cease still has that. Giolito, as much as I like him, does not have that ability. So dealing him makes all of the sense. The Sox problems, as everyone has stated, are so deeply rooted, it's ridiculous. Their drafting has been terrible under Hahn. Their analysis of players in-house, has sucked. They made a few decent trades for flawed prospects. The ones that don't appear to be flawed have an in-ept coaching staff that couldn't teach 1st grade math. Their analytics, suck. The only thing that has kept them from not being moved to North Dakota and changing their name to the Flying Purple People Eaters is the fact that they've been able to attract some Cuban players who are older. They also either refuse or are incapable of developing a system for amateur ball players so they'll never end up getting someone like Elly De La Cruz. They don't know how to develop anyone. It is to the point in which if I were a GM in baseball, I would fade everything the White Sox FO does, their philosophy in terms of spending, analytics, signings, trading, evaluation of their own players, etc. They've been a bucket of suck for far too long.

When did I miss KW taking over?

A few things: In recent memory, I would agree. I said this when he was signed, as I followed the Dodgers as my NL team when Torre became their manager: Grandal is a good player to have in a great lineup, but for the most part, he only does well when everyone else is hot. If they're not, he typically will give you two good weeks with the bat before he slumps hard. For the amount of money, I hated it. It's clear the locker room has no leader and when you try to be a leader, you get nuked/blackballed. I hated the Keuchel signing (said that back then too) because even in his good starts with Atlanta, he was laboring through them and you could tell he was done. He spoke the truth and no one wanted to hear it. TA is dealing with his own mess. Jose Abreu, a guy who never throws anyone under the bus, spoke his mind and got blasted for it as if he was a salty player. Seems like the only shot you have is being quiet and hope other players take to it. The Sox need a rowdy ass guy who's going to get on players, like a Harper or Machado to a lesser extent. The problem is, the clubhouse, and maybe the organization as a whole rejects that. And that's a huge problem. Only oh so much a manager can do in that regard. Funny thing is, I see a lot of fans who also get upset at the vocal leaders too. It's weird to me. Moncada, who I had high hopes for, is a failure. Kopech is the same. Your best bet for Kopech is for him to be that dominant high stress relief guy or a closer. Moncada is a defensive replacement type guy. Sad thing is, if he gets with a team that develops hitters, I feel like we're going to be upset that we gave up on him. Vaughn is a guy who just isn't it. League average at best. He has the look, but not much else. Eloy is always hurt. TA has regressed and right now his mind seems to be off baseball as a whole. Our bullpen is too expensive and worst of all, our GM flat out doesn't know how to fix it. The owner doesn't care to fix it. We have no one in the pipeline worth mentioning at this time IMO. Our drafts are rather poor. Chances are, we will sell off the team and take lesser prospects so we can get money back or have to pitch in less money on our end. This is what apathy with your baseball team is. Oakland is in Oakland and doesn't have the resources. We're in Chicago, and we just choose to operate this way. Won't spend big bucks on the players, farm system, scouting or the front office.

Also not a fan of Kap and JHood in the morning. They get too off track with each other. I hear too much about each other's wife. I like Carm and Jurko. Waddle and Silvy is another one that gets too involved with family. Silvy is too much of a meatball fan. Also, the segment with Wilbon might be the worst weekly segment in Chicago Sports Radio. Wilbon clearly doesn't like being called out, and contradicts himself quite a bit to the point where it cannot be ignored. Mully and Haugh talk quite a bit of Sox in the morning.

I think he needs to play everyday as well. I think we've gotten spoiled by thinking once players get promoted, they should be ready to go immediately. While some players can do that, not all can. Doesn't mean it's useless to have them play and give up on them so easily. There are countless examples of it working. Jarred Kelenic looked awful up until this year. Now, he's one of the best OFers in baseball this year. The Sox suck, might as well play him everyday so he could develop.

Bring back Leury as he was great for clubhouse chemistry on a 4 year, 75 million contract Blame the other teams in baseball for not wanting to do business with the White Sox, then suggest how there's no one more upset than yourself Talk more about negative fans (though with the amount of fans left, any fan should be considered good) Throw Eloy at SS then talk about how playing SS is less load on the joints and muscles than DHing Bad talk Jose Abreu because "he didn't want to be here anymore and any conjecture otherwise doesn't have the full story" Give an open ended deadline about when negative fans will eat their crow - "Jump on the bandwagon now because in a few months, you're going to regret it, take that to the bank" Summarize your points by talking about a "Us against the world" mentality that no one in the clubhouse cares about anymore

I don't think I've ever turned on a GM quicker. Even with GarPax, they built good will with the work they did earlier in their careers and took the Bulls out of some very dark days. You could also see that they were decent amateur evaluators. Hahn supposedly is great at contracts and all I've seen him do is pay for players that there really is no competition for, and blow cash that way. The Machado thing was the biggest eye opener. Had a legit stud, HOF player willing to come here, and he says stupid crap like "He's going to have to prove it". All of his moves outside of Quintana's trade, have been disastrous. Resigning Leury to a contract extension, wasting so much money on a bad bullpen, the Jon Jay and Yonder Alonso crap, and blaming media for interviewing the wrong fans. The only people who are going to ball games are people who have been gifted seats, already had a planned outing there, or simply those who have nothing to do. Shame on Jerry for letting this continue. He won't fire them, especially midseason, so what's his end game here? He's already stated he wants his family to sell the Sox when he's gone. So why not just sell them now? No one, not your die hards, not your negative fans, nor the most positive fans are rooting for the White Sox. And that's the problem. They've created such disdain that we're all apathetic to it all. There is nothing to root for, not until there's an entire overhaul of the FO. I don't even want Suzy who's been in the ticketing department for 15 years to still be there (Sorry Suzy), for fear of the remnants of bad ashes to be on her. This whole thing is rotten to the core. Unfortunately, the White Sox have made themselves so irrelevant, they won't be called out by the national media, which is seemingly the only time JR actually does things.

The book out on him was that he was good at negotiating contracts. Based off of the signings and self-imposed cap, I'd say he's pretty awful at money overall. It's been posted countless dollars that he has wasted for the bullpen or for trash signings. Giving Leury what he did is proof enough that he isn't a great negotiator. And this "I'm just as pissed as you..." shtick doesn't work if you constantly have to use it. You're the GM and you're essentially calling yourself a victim in terms of why things don't get done. He sucks, plain and simple. Cubs dodged a bullet not hiring him. Sox are taking that bullet. But unfortunately, until Jerry sells (which he won't), nepotism will run rampant through this organization. So Hahn will fail upwards and we will get Hahn's nephew running things. SMDH

38 million down the drain and he still hasn't enough to prove he sucks at his job apparently

I don't think it's a terrible move, but I also would've waited until the offseason to see what I have with Tatis. I don't forsee how they could afford all three of Soto, Tatis and Machado long term while fielding a team. Theoretically, you prefer to keep the younger ones, but oh well. Sucks that the Sox would never be in on this at all.

I don't think JR thinks that deeply on it to be honest. I think he is loyal and entrusts who he has in front of him to make all of the decisions. The only constraint I see him put forth is that of money, which is frustrating, but also understandable. With that stated, I don't forsee JR being happy about saying "We need to rebuild all over again". And that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting a retool. Roster is good and young enough for that. We all knew at least one of Abreu, Vaughn, Eloy, Grandal, or Sheets could not be here going forward. We knew this bullpen was way too expensive. We also knew this team was injury prone all of last year from the gate. We didn't buy, nor sell which is the worst thing you could do. Hahn did have the ability to sign someone to a big contract. He chose to get cute with it (well if Machado hit the incentives, then he would've received more per annual, blah blah blah). You don't do stupid ish like that to a generational 3B like Machado. It's a slap in the face. Then saying, "Well, now we can take those dollars and invest elsewhere", which is true, but then signing Joe Kelly, getting Liam (good player, but no way is a bullpen arm worth that much short of Mo Rivera), Leury's deal, etc. The best deal Hahn has made in his tenure is that of Cueto and that was arguably by stupid blink necessity and luck.

I think a GM needs to know how to operate with the confinements given to them by those up top. It happens in everyday life, and in all organizations. Your boss wants you to make something happen, but makes it a little bit more difficult than it needs to be due to certain constraints out of your control. So you either make it happen or find an organization that better fits how you need to operate. With that stated, it's long enough to realize that one of the following is true: Hahn is bad at his job or Hahn sucks at working within the rules his bosses want him to play. Regardless of reason, he's shown enough that he needs to be put through that door. In my mind, I think he's just flat out bad at his job. I appreciate that he breaks the 4th wall and gets upset like we do and shows it. I was happy enough with him blowing up the team a few years ago and getting some major players like Eloy. But, IMO, whether it was due to payroll, or teams overvaluing their players, or him just not having a plan, it's clear that he doesn't know how to do anything other than blow up a team for the Chicago White Sox. His forecasting has sucked when it comes to players wanting more money (Machado fiasco), his use of assets made available to him such as trade chips or money has sucked (that bullpen, Leury, etc.), he has allowed his players to become depreciating assets (Grandal, Kimbrel, Hendriks, etc.), his answer to filling starting voids on the team is to have players way out of position or to fulfill with backup minor league options. IMO, I can't put that on Jerry. If Jerry told him that they were going to roll back on payroll, that's understandable because they sucked in the worst division in baseball. Hahn should've sold off the team at the deadline, especially Abreu. He didn't even do that. So now we are stuck with the exact same team again and expecting to do 12-15 games better based upon hopes and dreams.

Yep, sounds like they're building a MadHouse section like at the UC. That would be cool, but I think they severely underutilize the space around the immediate park.

Well, I don't even believe in paying your bullpen much. It's a crap shoot every year. I wouldn't count on Bummer or Crochet along with Graveman, Lopez or Hendriks. Definitely not Kelly either, which is why I hated the move. I think, honestly, the team is two years away from actually competing again and that's if they do a retool.

Agreed. Honestly, the only way I see this team competing next year is via trade or just giving two sh*ts about the salary cap and overpaying everyone. They still need two corner OFs, a decision on Abrea/Vaughn/Eloy (who plays DH, who plays 1B and who's left out). They need to get a C who can play. Moncada would be a nice 7th hitter, but I don't know if that's possible on this roster.

Wouldn't mind Bochy or Beltran. It's going to be someone familiar with them, however, so Ozzie would be the only "We know him hire" i might be halfway convinced on.

Honestly, I would move TA to 2B, but I don't know if Correa is the one to convince me. They do need to get some vocal leaders for that clubhouse. Everyone is just so non-chalant, lead by example types. On a baseball roster, you need vocal leaders. Correa simply isn't as good as people have rated him. Trea is an injury waiting to happen. ?

I think Machado has showed he can carry a team by himself. I get deciding that in the end, he's not worth not being able to build the rest of the roster. The reason why I would've argued against that is that if you have what everyone thinks are young studs coming up at darn near every position, and you've had general success in developing pitching, Machado makes the most sense for your team. Instead, the deals that they signed are mind boggling - Manny Machado fan club, Eaton, Kelly, Hendriks, Grandal (never liked that deal from the get go), Keuchel (who looked washed with ATL, but got bailed out quite a bit), Lynn (which I thought was a bad use of assets, though he has played better than I expected overall). I just think Hahn didn't know what to do after he actually acquired a ton of prospects. You almost needed a Dave Dombroski type to cash in the chips for him.