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QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 04:13 PM) Well, he's 28. I don't suspect he's going to decline from aging a whole lot between this year and his age 29 season, but I suppose you just never know. As for variability, I can accept that argument. Fair enough. Yeah I was thinking more of the vets we tried to bring in like LaRoche for that part.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 03:15 PM) I'll be in attendance tonight! Should be an awesome game! Look out for Lasorda in front of the Dodgers bullpen. He was there last night.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 03:29 PM) Yeah, I get it. I watch sports too. I think there is a case to be made that this guy is here to stay now. That case is backed by actual data, unlike the case of Avi, perhaps, and therefore it is reasonable to suggest that this may be the beginning of something, rather than a flash in the pan. That's all the argument is. Then folks started throwing the injury stuff into the equation, when, it probably isn't warranted in the case of Kahnle, or at least not more than any other 28 year old pitcher in his 4th year as a professional. By this measure, should we trade Rodon for whatever we can get after he gets his feet under him a bit? Since he might need tjs? It's possible he's different, but the White Sox haven't proved to me yet that they can identify the players that defy the trends of something like common decline from aging or relief variability. They will probably have to for us to actually make most of rebuild. But for now, I'm much happier that they are accepting the broad trends likely to predict performance and risk for groups like relievers and taking the safer route. Especially when they got imo acceptable value.

QUOTE (yesterday333 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 03:27 PM) Im gonna go top 15 position players and top 15 pitchers. I struggle trying to mix the list Hitters 1. Moncada 2. Jimenez 3. Robert 4. Collins 5. Rutherford 6. Burger 7. Fisher 8. Sheets 9. Adolfo 10. Zavala 11. Basabe 12. Skoug 13. Mendick 14. Cuerbelo 15. Polo Pitchers 1. Kopech 2.Giolito 3. Lopez 4. Hansen 5. Dunning 6. Cease 7. Flores 8. Clarkin 9. Stephens 10 Fulmer 11 Adams 12 Burdi 13 Guerrero 14 Bummer 15 Diaz Yeah splitting it up seems a lot easier to do.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 03:24 PM) Would it be safe to summarize this by saying, if you want to compare Kopech and Kahnle, that relievers seem more likely to lose all their value fairly suddenly than starters? Yes, but there's a second part with Kahnle's value to us right now is as an asset to acquire future assets. Kopech IS a future asset. If they both got injured today it would mean different things for the organization. Kopech getting TJ would suck because it's not guaranteed he comes back stronger, but it's not destroying his value to the white sox. Kahnle getting TJ basically costs us some X on our future team.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 03:14 PM) He does have a point. It isn't fair to put this injury risk on him when the guy has really never had health concerns. Performance concerns, fine. But not injury concerns. Just like you say in regards to athletic, toolsy prospects - they don't all have to be Courtney Hawkins or Jared Mitchell simply because of...Courtney Hawkins and Jared Mitchell. Here's the main point. It's not a personal indictment of Kahnle. It may be a message board groupthinky strategy, but the crux of the issue is that relievers in baseball as a group have had similar issues to running backs in the nfl. THere are a few amazing exceptions of year over year consistency and excellence, but tons of variability year to year in performance. ANd because they are a group purchased for win-now purposes, it is riskier to bet on their future performance being the same or better than a hitter/SP with track record. That is why people are saying to trade him, not because he is kahnle, but because Kahnle is a reliever, and relievers are valuable but risky assets. I like Kahnle. He was awesome to watch. We could ahve held on and seen him become a top 5 closer. But when we are in rebuild modes like this, I'd much rather trade our successful relievers for future assets because unless their performance is immediately important to our team I don't want to hold onto them.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 03:04 PM) But they are pitchers who might get hurt, and supposedly that is plenty of reason not to have them around. Great point. Guys look how DA totally showed us!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 02:49 PM) That I understand, but shouldn't they think about dealing Kopech? Strike while the iron is hot. Why risk injury? I get trading Kahnle. I just don't get the he might get hurt, look at Nate Jones, posts. Everyone might get hurt. If you get trading Kahnle, you get the rationale that he might get hurt or decline.

It's a shame Mark Reynolds had to work out so well for Rox. I just don't see it being worth it, and I would like to have at least one good player for next year.

After the JD martinez trade I don't think we'll get much back. I'd be happy to keep Avi and take that "risk" as it seems small. If he is actually good maybe it will be like a starlin castro situation.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 01:08 PM) If Kahnle is such a huge injury risk, aren't all the White Sox pitchers, including their prospects? Yes.

I feel like prospect rankings have become pretty good. It will never become a perfect industry since they are grading humans, but i think it's asign of their quality that a lot of writer evaluators have been plucked for front office gigs. The BA guys are at games all the time. They go to high school fields in montana. But they also disagree with each other, so they will certainly disagree with some team evaluations.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 12:30 PM) And his service clock is such that the Sox don't get to keep him any longer even if they waited until early next year to call him up. As long as you're confident that he won't be so overwhelmed up here that it will hurt his development, it's better to get him up here against the best competition and presumably with the best coaches. Because his walk rate is so good, and he strikes out looking often, I'm glad he's getting some time to work with a presumably better strike zone.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 11:46 AM) Tyler Johnson, Kade McClure, JB Olson, Will Kincanon are worth following Good stuff, didn't remember where the louisville pitchers were assigned.

QUOTE (Señor Ding-Dong @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 12:21 PM) Nelson Acosta was an under the radar guy I had my eye on after he put up good numbers in the DSL for a few years. Seemingly too advanced for that league and turning 20 in August, I assumed he'd be assigned to a stateside rookie affiliate this season. However, he's repeating the DSL for the fourth straight year and the wheels seem to have come off, as he now has an ERA over 9, a WHIP over 2 and is allowing over 10 walks per 9. My point is, it's difficult to "stat scout" these guys when there's little to nothing else to go off, like actual scouting reports. Yeah, DSL stats seem to be poor indicators of anything. He's the only guy I know of aside from Pineda's brother on DSL.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 12:44 PM) His July numbers in 14 games are .327/.373/.455 with a strikeout rate of less than 7% (though walk rate is just 3.4%) Good stuff, I know he had a walkoff granny recently. I mean Longenhagen's review of him was sparkling, and I like Hudson tweeting out favorably. It's clear he passes the eye test in a way that his performance hasn't caught up, but that can catch up in a hurry.

I would really like to see Rutherford go on a tear. Eloy has shown so much better at a similar level with a recovering shoulder.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 10:54 AM) And there were also guys like Glasnow and Meadows that we would have died for that now have taken steps back. It works both ways. Yes, but in the position we are in, I'm willing to take the gambles of prospects failing than with major league assets falling prior to us getting a return.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 10:48 AM) What does that have to do with it? Q was a 6 year minor league free agent. Mark Buehrle was a 38th round draft pick. Kahnle averages 15 k per 9 innings in the major leagues this year. Rutherford has been ho hum in A ball. Yet Kahnle is sure to have a bad month and be worthless, while if Rutherford has a good month or 2, he's untouchable. I just hope some posters here are prepared when some of these guys (and not necessarily Rutherford) bust. It will happen, yet being ranked #1 on the farm seems to mean as much to some as winning the WS. Who cares what you are ranked. What matters is what these guys become. The Sox staff is on the clock. It's because some will bust that I want as much redundancy as possible in our farm system. But the point with Blake playing hsi way into untouchable status: there were quite a few players in the top 70 or so who some posters identified as risers and really good players that people objected to based on ranking as not good enough for Q. Think Tucker and Acuna. 6 months later they were too good for Q. If Blake shows his talent, a young, talented offensive OF prospect is >>> a good reliever. But I totally agree that at this point we are strictly relying on sox staff. Our initial returns were AAA guys who had been developed elsewhere. THis new crop is A/A+ guys who have quite a ways to go. Can't we hire the diamondback player dev guys who turned out AJ pollock and Peralta please?

If Kahnle was a SP or Position player I would not feel this way, but he's a relief pitcher, and there is too much history of relief pitchers suddenly turning into pumpkins. He has great stuff. I hope he has great personal success. But I am just not willing to gamble to hold on when we have opportunity for future starting Position players or starting pitchers.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 19, 2017 -> 09:58 AM) KW would have gotten like 8 fringe prospects back in that deal, all superior athletes with no baseball skills. I was thinking more the JD martinez/doolittle deals.

Everytime I go to do this mine ends up exactly the same as the person before it. I realized I'm not original at all.

I basically ignore the pitching lines for those teams. Is there anyone I should follow?

One other thing is the trades of yesterday felt so much more familiar to me. THe trades of well playing veterans for fringey spects reminded me of the bets that KW so easily made with a bad farm system. But nobody was a truly elite player, and we built too much of our team on these types without enough of the big impact guys to pull the weight. Like, it seems foolish now to think that Youk could have legit led us to playoffs but I totally believed it.

If there is one thing as a fan that I have no real bearing for, it's how to value money players are owed in a deal. I think I overvalued the money component with Quintana and undervalued it for Robertson. It seems like if teams feel that player is getting paid above or market price for their services and they are taking on that contract, they are not paying for their talent in a way that we would recognize. I would love to know if there is a system or model that teams use to figure that out.