witesoxfan

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 02:51 PM) I am less concerned about his bank account and more concerned about his development. I for one didn't want him starting the year in the MLB, but I guess the Beckham/Keppinger injuries necessitated it. Semien could realistically be called up to replace Gillaspie and remain on the roster as a Beckham replacement later this month.

greg, I don't understand your argument

Regarding LeBron, this feels like the same exact story as last time with the Heat and the Cavs, but this time the sides have switched.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 01:44 PM) How much do we have to see of Viciedo to realize he's a bust? I'd trade him now following a good series. Trade him to the M's. They had to be impressed at the 4-hit game. Get a catcher with promise and a pitcher with decent upside and that's good enough. Because he's still young and there have been some encouraging signs from him this season. Odds are, you're right, he is a bust of sorts and he won't ever turn into a very productive player, basically turning into the Cuban Delmon Young. He still has quick hands and a powerful stroke, and guys like that can turn it around in a New York minute,so you could see the Encarnacion/Beltre/Bautista/Davis outbreak where Viciedo becomes a very good hitter, but I don't see it happening. Right now, his value is incredibly low due to his lack of production to this point with his impending arbitration (and subsequent pay raise with less team control as well). On top of that, the Sox don't have someone beating down the door needing to play - they would be replacing him with Jordan Danks, Moises Sierra, or Michael Taylor. Thus, you play him and see if something clicks and he turns himself into a good player. If between the remainder of this season and next you can pretty safely tell he's not going to figure it out, you can begin to look at some change of scenery guys. Bottom line, I don't see any reason to deal him unless a team is willing to overpay, and why would a team in contention be willing to overpay for an underproducing player?

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 12:28 PM) Welcome aboard. Just make sure to always agree with me and you'll never be wrong. I disagree.

QUOTE (venom4789 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 12:15 PM) Sorry if this is in the wrong area but wasnt able to find a thread or folder where to post if your a new poster and to introduce yourself. just figured i would say hi since i have just recently joined the board. I have been a huge white sox fan my whole life, originally a poster at whitesox.com but after recent updates to their message board and constant bickering over politics i have decided to move to greener pastures. Seems like a lot of people know baseball pretty well here so hoping it leads to great conversations, discusions and even arguements. My favorite white sox player black jack My favorite game i went to was game 2 against the redsox in 05 when iguchi hit the big homerun. Favorite player in baseball is ken griffey jr, i could watch him swing a bat for hours. And the play that always sticks out to me was watching robin ventura try to charge nolan ryan, i was a huge fan of venture and just remember being devasted when he got put in the headlock. Looking forward to contributing and having fun. Love it, welcome to the board! Hope to see lots of contributions.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 11:53 AM) Russell? Sorry, can't believe I forgot the name. No, Javier Baez.

I don't want to say it is the case, but it's pretty incredible how similar his career trajectory compares with Brandon Wood right now.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 10:21 AM) I'm not so sure about that...we have no pitching prospects to speak of right now. Angel Sanchez might be our best pitching prospect right now, after two teams gave up on him in the past 6 months. Boras knows that, and he knows we don't want to go into the free agent market for pitching...he also knows the White Sox, unlike the Cubs, can't push the rebuild another year into the future without hemorrhaging another 10-15% of fans with season ticket packages. Essentially, it would force the White Sox to spend in the offseason and make a splash big enough to move the meter on season tickets...not even James Shields is going to do that, probably. It would have to be Scherzer or Price, and no way the White Sox have the pieces to trade for Price (goodbye Tim Anderson, Hawkins and Micah Johnson or Montas) or the desire to extend him since he's also left-handed (like Lester). Just imagine the 0.001% chance we keep hearing...if he doesn't sign, this board will be in full meltdown mode for two or three weeks and you'll see threads all offseason about how cheap the White Sox are if they don't shell out money for Scherzer/Lester/Shields...which is probably the last thing they should be doing logically at this point in the rebuild. It will be viewed as White Flag II...unless Rodon's arm falls off or he never ends up making much of an impact in the majors. No

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 10:05 AM) that's what he was supposedly asking for...$8 million...that was rumored around the week before the draft the White Sox obviously don't even have the space to go to $9 million, and I'm sure they would fold and admit defeat in the face of that demand, which would only end up making both Hahn and Boras look dumb in the end Which is why he won't get that amount. I can apply at McDonalds and demand $25 an hour, but I'm not getting it.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 09:39 AM) If I was Boras, I would just say two words. "Manny Ramirez (Scott Downs/Jeff Keppinger/Felipe Paulino). You're going to quibble over $250-500,000 over your future frontline starter, c'mon Rick Hahn. You went to Kellogg School and Harvard Law. You're not dumb. The White Sox need Carlos Rodon as much as he needs them. Besides, nobody's coming to games as it is, and you already have two of the top ten players in baseball. Plus, I know you're not going to spend $100+ million in free agency, Carlos is your best chance to have a winner again on the SouthSide." First of all, I doubt the difference is $250-500K. I'm guessing the difference at this point is closer to $1-2 mill. If it were as small as the original numbers, they'd take a few hours and iron out their differences. Also, if I were Rick Hahn, I'd counter with "You are getting $6 milllion. If you think he's going to get significantly more than that next year, you're crazy."

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 09:14 AM) Don't you think they're trying to put together the biggest collection of talented young players into the same window as possible? They're accumulating assets, and they're accumulating the ones they believe have the most value. Then when the time comes, they'll trade the assets they don't need for those that they do need. The obvious risk is that they miss the aforementioned "when the time comes." As a fan though (if I were a Cubs fan), I'd hope for a bit more direction. It's admirable how much talent they have accumulated, but it just seems aimless at this point. They almost seem to be getting to the Royals point of a rebuild where they don't want to trade their talent because it's so good, but they also don't want to make any significant moves because it would be wasteful while they're good players eat up arbitration years. At that point, they end up trying to just get value for them rather than doing anything else. For a team like the A's, who are fully loaded now, it makes sense because they can't spend as much. For a team like the Cubs, who can absolutely support a $120+ million payroll, you'd hope they'd be pointed more towards the area of contention. Instead, they're one of the 4-5 worst teams in the league again.

Casey's does make some tasty pizza as well. Haven't had any since I left Vermillion. Their breakfast pizzas are legendary.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 08:52 AM) I don't know about that, I mean Moises Sierra was a good prospect in Toronto and he isn't playing. I think that between Tank/DeAza/Dunn if the Sox had anyone that they felt was MLB ready, one of the 3 would be gone or on the bench. If they think Taylor is worth playing then my guess is he's only in Charlotte because they want him to work on things there without using up his service time. But if the Sox genuinely feel could be an answer at some point then he'll be out there when he's ready and there will be casualties. I hope you're right though and he is someone we at least think is worth a shot. I think Taylor will get a shot eventually. I just wanted to give you some more s***, because it's fun.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 08:49 AM) He'll get more than offered on the open market though. They wanted him to take a pay cut to stay for a crap shoot of a rebuilding process. No thanks. That's the thing I don't understand. What's the Cubs' ultimate end game here? Is it "acquire ALL the prospects?" They seem to be collecting talent with no real direction moving forward. I don't understand what they're shooting for.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 08:37 AM) We're not getting anything out of him anyway so it really doesn't matter. I can't even believe I'm saying this but it really doesn't make a lot of sense to even move him right now just because we have no one else to play. I'd like to try Tank at DH but it's entirely possible that Hahn wants Tank in the field to try and somewhat maintain whatever trade value he may have. Viciedo may not be in the Sox plans at all, at any point, at any position. As soon as Hahn acquires a position player that needs and is worthy of the PA, whether it's an MLB ready prospect or a reclamation type, Dunn should be gone. That sounds a heck of a lot like Michael Taylor, and they haven't gotten rid of Dunn yet, so nanner nanner.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 03:30 PM) Any contender that wants Dunn will not be a contender much longer after acquiring him. He'll be a Sox the remainder of the season IMO. This is absurd. The guy can still hit the ball a long ways and he can still take a walk. If you're counting on him as the big acquisition, you'll be disappointed, but he can absolutely add value to a team. QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 03:41 PM) As someone else said, it's 99.9999% certain. Please justify this response. You want to be smart with this 99.9999% comment, but I have absolutely laid my case out. I don't see much logic or reasoning behind yours. QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 6, 2014 -> 11:28 PM) He's done. Whatever team signs him next year is foolish. At this point, he deserves about 2 million a year. The guy is a power hitter who can't hit home runs. This post his hilarious because he says "he's done," implying that he is not good enough to play baseball at the MLB level anymore, and then says "he deserves about $2 million a year," as if $2 million a year is chump change and is not very much money and as if he can continue playing baseball. (Dunn could probably get a $4-6 million deal next year) QUOTE (oldsox @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 06:41 AM) It's not a dumb comment. Who is going to take Dunn? Why would anyone? Furthermore, I think Dunn is done after this season. His Last Hurrah took four years. There are plenty of teams who can use a guy that can hit right handed fairly well. In a straight platoon situation, Dunn is a valuable hitter. There's no reason to give up a legitimate prospect for him, but the Sox can absolutely still get a talented player for him.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 7, 2014 -> 08:11 AM) So I didn't get much last night and it took awhile to pry anything out but it appears the dangling of immediate playing time wasn't as effective as expected and they have been asking for over slot. Still confident this gets done. They were kind of shocked that the trigger wasn't pulled already. That's about all. 99.9999%. The Sox won't lose him over a little bit of money, but at this point, they also want to save some money too, so come the 11th hour, both sides will flinch and it will get done. I'm guessing $6.5 million.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 6, 2014 -> 01:04 PM) I'm pretty hammered and all I want to do is punch Wite and Heads in the face. Hey you cant do that today cuz it's my berfday

At the end of the day, I think it's going to be difficult to find the proper return for Viciedo. He's likely going to be a mediocre hitter the rest of his career who always flashes with his talent. His upside and talent that shows like an Encarnacion or Beltre is always going to get him chances and give the team who has him under contract optimism for the future, thus possibly overvaluing him. The thing is, Dayan Viciedo is the exact type of player people want to acquire during rebuilds. See if the guy can put it together and if not, you have others coming up in the minors. We're sick of him as Sox fans because we've seen him for years and years, but how many Rangers fans were tired of Chris Davis murdering AAA and coming up and failing? How about the Reds with Encarnacion? It's not the worst thing to not get a return on someone via trade. Frankly, the same thing goes for Beckham too with the caveat that the Sox have middle infield depth and Beckham is a free agent after next season. So, no,I don't think they should trade him unless they get a big enough offer, which I don't foresee happening.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 5, 2014 -> 07:05 PM) I googled and came up with an article from 2009 with the top 31 bonuses given to the Latin players, up until then, Cubans excluded. Miguel Cabrera was on that list then, but only a couple more names many would recognize made the list. It seems given these to be 16-17 year olds, you are far better off spreading some money around than dumping it on one or two. IMO, the Sox have a solid strategy here. Agree completely. Think back to when you were a freshman in high school playing ball, and you know who the stud players were. You look even 2-3 years later, and while some of those players may have still been really good, there were likely a few that fell off a bit and a few others that emerged. Just get a bunch of guys who are talented and see what sticks and what doesn't.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 3, 2014 -> 04:19 PM) Agreed about the context angle. I might say "we need a hit here", or "we need an out now", but the blanket "we" about everything White Sox, no. I do this too. I live in the moment, but in the grand scheme of things, no, I don't say it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 3, 2014 -> 04:16 PM) Again, I think the biggest red flag is the differential between the 134 pitch outing and his next highest work load. John Danks at 120 pitches the other night wasn't even his highest workload of this season. I'm not worried about Danks' workload at all. I was just talking about Santana.

I basically view the we versus they thing as "did I realistically help the team accomplish their goals?" That answer is no. Really, it doesn't bother me that much, but I prefer "they" versus "we." When people say "we signed Abreu!" I think it's goofy because it's like "no, 'we' didn't do s*** to sign Abreu," but I'm not going to ever make a big deal out of it.

There is no causation, but there is most certainly correlation between the no-hitter and the number of pitches with his terrible pitching thereafter.