caulfield12

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 04:20 PM) Victor Martinez didn't play in 2012, Dunn hit 41 homers. So your argument is that with Victor Martinez instead of Dunn from 2011-2014 we never would have made the playoffs? The only reason we were so close in 2012 was probably related to that injury weakening Detroit relatively.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 04:15 PM) Caulfield in full meltdown. His biggest nightmare, Royal hero a possible White Sox, and now he is back to the White Sox should have been in the playoffs this many times in the past. It is happening. Hahn making moves and the chronic whiners are melting. Lol. You have the opposite idea. Every time Gordon makes a mistake for the White Sox, that will be your chance to jump all over him. Gordon Beckham was so bad for us there was little need to rub it in, but I'm sure you won't be able to resist. I'm also happy to know that we never even considered Victor Martinez over Adam Dunn.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 04:06 PM) Why give a response to guy who thinks Victor Matinez over Adam Dunn would have made up 16 games in the standings. Yes, because clearly we lost the 2012 race by not 3 but 16 games. When you sign a free agent, it has an impact over more than one year. In fact, you wanted to being back Victor Martinez instead of LaRoche just two years ago. Obviously you were impressed by something about him.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 04:10 PM) You consider that post objective? The point it seems you're trying to make is whatever move the Sox make, it's obviously going to be the wrong one, because of LaRoche and Adam Dunn. Once again, you can go back for as long as you want in White Sox history...sometimes the truth hurts. As Lip often says, the last thirty five years, OTHER than 2005, is a record of mostly missed opportunities for this franchise.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 04:05 PM) There's not much else to say about that post, it was very forced and seemed like you were just looking for reasons to be negative. Once again, when was the last time we made a move that simultaneously helped the White Sox and hurt an AL Central divisional rival at the same time? Sox history is Sox history until it isn't. 2005 did happen. That still doesn't mean with all the financial/media market advantages in the last 25 years that we shouldn't have earned 3-5 more playoff spots than we have...

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 04:01 PM) Hahahaha, all of that garbage has zero bearing on anything relating the the 2016 White Sox. By your line of thinking, nobody would or should ever consider past history when choosing a mutual fund or the make and model of an automobile purchase for that matter. So what exactly would cause us to disregard all past Sox history about bad/wrong moves and never giving up more than a contract in the mid to upper $60's (Danks, Dunn, Abreu the highest)... What does have bearing that we can objectively consider or quantify, pray tell?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 03:59 PM) Whatevs. Typical. If there was a clever retort to be made...or a substantive response. Oh well.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 03:51 PM) That article estimates Gordon's contract to be 5 years at $108M, that feels way too high. How many players have signed for significantly less than estimated so far? Just a few. We all said 4 and more likely five years...$80-110 million since the beginning of the free agency period. The lowest offer besides the rumored lowball/hometown discount was around $75 million from the Cardinals.

Honestly, Gordon to the White Sox doesn't happen because we are never on the right side of the ledger in these deals where we add and subtract from a divisional foe... 2003 Kenny Rogers cheaply to the Twins, Sox have no fifth starter and fall short 2010 Thome to the Twins, Kotsay/A. Jones to the Sox Miguel Cabrera to Detroit because of better minor league talent in Maybin and Miller at time of trade 2011 Dunn to the White Sox, Victor Martinez to the Tigers That's three White Six playoff teams alone (2003/2010/2012) and the likelihood of even more with Miggy Cabrera in the fold that whole time. See below. You could make the same arguments even about last year...had the White Sox brought in Morales instead of LaRoche, C.Young/Madson/Volquez/Cueto instead of Shark, Robertson and Duke...Zobrist over Cabrera. Granted, the Royals were willing to sacrifice much of their farm in the process, as they didn't pick up any of the two month remaining salaries for Cue-to and Zobrist. I can't think of any time predating 2000 where we hurt a divisional foe and helped ourselves simultaneously. Guess it has to happen someday, right?

Concussion isn't a great film but worth checking out and definitely made me seriously consider if I would ever allow my son to play football when he gets older...

Oh, I definitely think Mets fans hate the Yankees. Certainly when you had the Giants, Dodgers and Yankees in one metropolitan area that was the case. Nobody in SoCal hates anything. And Giants fans probably feel sorry or pity for the A's. The Nationals and Orioles' owners hate each other, so there's that.

Or how were the Tigers able to project JD Martinez and especially Jose Iglesias would be solid offensive contributors...whereas we were so off on Garcia, Davidson, Hawkins, etc. KW used to be able to find those undervalued players but it pretty much ended with Quentin and Ramirez.

The thread title definitely needs to be changed since there's almost nothing concrete linking Gordon and the White Sox... Certainly shouldn't be contributing to anyone getting their hopes up when there's almost no smoke at all.

Astros already gave up a boatload for Giles. The latest MLB.com speculation about Gordon doesn't even have the White Sox as a mystery or surprise team...but does talk about KC, StL, SF, Baltimore, SF, the Angels, etc. Not a complete surprise, I guess. http://m.mlb.com/news/article/160176632/ma...gordons-suitors

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/01/...NQVM/story.html A bit out of date now, but interesting nonetheless...especially how those rankings might have changed over time. Don Cooper fourth among pitching coaches. We always argue how important/influential coaches and managers are...the truth being somewhere in the middle of both sides.

The Royals would arguably go that high. The sticking point is that fifth year for them. LaRoche at 3 years older and at 1b/DH got $13.5 million and contracts have only escalated in the last year. We're talking about a perennial Gold Glove OF that's only 2 years removed from his prime. That's a fair and legitimate enough offer, but he will end up in KC or St. Louis at those numbers imo.

I wouldn't count the Cardinals out just yet, especially if they were to add Gordon/Cespedes/Upton or possibly Chris Davis (that would require a rearrangement of their roster with Adams). That said, the Brewers and definitely the Reds are way off in terms of competing with the top of the division. Milwaukee's probably closer to a rebuild/teardown than a competitive team.

To the list of OF names, add Desmond Jennings (rehab guy with a career .724 OPS) and Brett Gardner. Can't imagine what we have that would make the Yankees want to part with him that we'd conceivably give up...but Gardner seems like the classic KW veteran whose peak has already come and gone and who is starting the downside of his career. Inciarte would cost too much talent (although a huge improvement). Bruce just has too much lingering questions about his health/recent performance/contract/NL to AL transition to seriously consider.

To the list of OF names, add Desmond Jennings (rehab guy with a career .324 OPS) and Brett Gardner. Can't imagine what we have that would make the Yankees want to part with him that we'd conceivably give up...but Gardner seems like the classic KW veteran whose peak has already come and gone and who is starting the downside of his career. Inciarte would cost too much talent (although a huge improvement). Bruce just has too much lingering questions about his health/recent performance/contract/NL to AL transition to seriously consider.

That's the problem...I'm not sure there will be the same "open checkbook" from JR to add second/third tier pieces like Parra, Austin Jackson and another veteran starting pitcher even if the price would be the same or similar as the cost of signing one of Upton/Cespedes/Gordon in terms of payroll ($20-25 million added). If you added Parra for $8-10 million, already you'd be quite limited in adding two more pieces (quality) for between $12-15 million more. You couldn't afford Gallardo, Parra and Austin Jackson, for example. Maybe you could manage Parra, Jackson and Fister...but could you sell that to JR? How many times have we had that discussion about "getting stuck in the middle" and adding 2nd/3rd tier options and overpaying for their past performance (see Cabrera/LaRoche/Duke, etc.) Definitely that idea of overpaying for a Fowler or Span instead of one of the big names and calling it quits is scary/disappointing for most Sox fans, although surely better than Avi. $12.5-15 million better, though? Not likely.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 08:47 PM) Thanks for posting the link. That really is a good write-up by Rosenthal and he's right, there are plenty of OF options available right now. I cannot imagine what Atlanta is seeking in return for Inciarte. Wishful thinking but I would love to see Inciarte on the South Side. Impossible without trading Anderson or Fulmer...they'd probably ask for Anderson AND Adams to open up discussions, knowing Hahn won't deal Anderson/Fulmer together as a package.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 21, 2015 -> 07:54 PM) Interesting in that the Sox have been eerily quiet. Gordon's LHB, defense and potential contract could be a fit with what the Sox are looking for. If Gordon's defensive skills diminish at some point, he could move to 1B or DH. I still have a difficult time believing the Sox are seriously in on Cespedes and Upton due to the money and length of contracts they are suspected to get. The rumor of making a push for Gordon has a certain White Sox feel to it. For now, I take it with a grain of salt until more stuff comes to light. Still interesting nonetheless. If that's the case, then he would absolutely have to play 1B for Abreu the majority of the time, because it's dubious to sign a player who has at least half of his value coming from his Gold Glove playing out of position. Gordon could be close to a GG 1B, based on his work ethic and desire to improve...a lot easier transition than 3B to LF for someone who spent his entire 10-25 year old time frame comfortable on the infield. Of course, LaRoche is making 2/3rd's of $20 million (assuming Gordon's around 5 years and $100 million) to sit on the bench (potentially), but the White Sox absolutely need to get that defensive premium out of either Gordon or Cespedes to make any potential deal worth it. Another big plus in Gordon's case is being left-handed...and (we've heard this before), a lot of his doubles in the gap could easily fly out of USCF in the summer months, whereas they end up as mostly doubles in KC except when the heat and wind are more conducive.

Tucker's good, but not his brother (that was just drafted high this past June). The White Sox won't be willing to trade Anderson or Fulmer, so that leaves Adams, essentially. That's what it comes down to maybe, Tucker for Adams. Perhaps a riskier move for the White Sox, because of our lack of quality starting pitching depth right now in the system. Beck is now perceived as more of a reliever, and Danish COULD be going in that direction. Montas is gone. That leaves Fulmer and Adams as the two best, with I suppose Guerrero following them but not with the same amount of buzz around him.

LoL. Greg would tell everyone the KC market is completely skeptical about retaining the services of Gordon and that they've already moved on mentally to the idea of players like Span, Fowler, Parra and Austin Jackson. In fact, like St. Louis fans in the Pujols contract drive year, they've convinced themselves that those resources are better off allocated elsewhere. (There are actually some parallels, as both Pujols and Gordon are bigger guys and had some physical problems in their early 30's. Combine that with the way Gordon plays the game, diving and running into walls and jumping into the stands, how long his body can take the punishment is an open question.) Span, Parra and Jackson 100% are typical Royals' "defense first" players...Span in particular, because of his background in all of the fundamentals from his time in Minnesota and in their system. There's also a certain amount of skepticism about Dyson and Orlando standing up over the course of a full-year. At any rate, there's no way they don't add SOMEONE because they have two holes with Zobrist/Rios/Gordon gone. There's also chatter about the likes of Marcell Ozuna, the Rockies' outfielders, Puig/Ethier/Crawford, Billy Hamilton, etc.

All the reviews of The Big Short have been quite laudatory, even the interspersed comedy stretches explaining the plethora of technical and financial terms. As someone who has read each of Lewis' books, really looking forward to it.