Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 19, 2016 -> 04:58 PM) Unless you get a big offer for Lawrie, there is no reason to not bring him back again. He isn't cost prohibative. Not sure I agree there. We have several significant holes and the $5M+ Lawrie will earn next season could best be used to elsewhere.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 17, 2016 -> 11:05 PM) So did you know that Lawrie is younger than Saladino? Just curious. Why is Tyler still developing and Lawrie can't? The simple answer is because Lawrie has 2,417 major league plate appearances while Saladino only has 565. Age and development don't always go hand and hand.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Sep 17, 2016 -> 03:42 PM) Guys...there's nothing wrong with him in a backup role. Sure, but not if Brett Lawrie is starting ahead of him. Saladino is a better player IMO for a fraction of the cost.

QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Sep 17, 2016 -> 02:19 PM) Saladino has had an 18 game hot streak (OPS of .935 in that span). Before that, he was at a .674 OPS. That puts him dead last among qualified MLB 2Bs. Now at .738, there are only five MLB two-baggers below him (Phillips, Gennett, Panik, Utley and Harrison). Let's not act like Saladino is some proven hitter who can only be prevented from starting at second next year by the acquisition of Moncada or better. He's had a nice 18 games, but he's been BAD for most of his career. If regular Tyler (as in the player we've seen for 88% of his career) shows up and he's a starter, we are going to sink hard. Tyler Saladino has 565 career plate appearances. His entire career is effectively a rookie season. You act like he's sucked for years and ignore the progress he has made this season, in particular when he's gotten consistent playing time. And why do cite offensive comps and ignore the value he provides in the field and on the bases? If he simply he kept up his current production over the course of a full season he'd be right around 15th or so in fWAR among 2B. Honestly, I can't quite grasp your hatred for him, but it's really, really bizarre.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 17, 2016 -> 01:04 PM) The White Sox were .500 when Rollins was let go. The decision didn't cost games. Did you just cite the team's record as "proof" a -0.1 WAR player didn't negatively impact the team?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 17, 2016 -> 09:14 AM) And for the record, after last night Tyler Saladino has an OPS+ of 102 on the season. That is without including his plus defense on the season. Accorinding to Fangraphs he has put up about 1.2 WAR and about $9.7 million in value when he has played somewhere close to half a seasons worth of baseball. Going by baseball reference, he is at 1.8 war. Thanks for posting this. And this is a guy who is still basically a rookie based on playing time. I think a lot of posters on here underrate him because he was never considered a top prospect and overall has underwhelming minor league stats. However, those of us followed him closely since being drafted always knew he had pretty solid tools with a decent amount of upside. His 2011 season at A+ clearly demonstrated that upside. And despite stalling a bit in the upper minors, he eventually worked through his issues and started hitting AAA pitching. If you look at his minor league BB & K rates, he's still got plenty of room for growth at the major league level. With his defensive & base running abilities, it's not going to take much more improvement with the bat to make him a 3 WAR player. Unless we acquire a Moncada type prospect, Saladino should be the starting 2B in 2017 whether we go for it or rebuild.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Sep 16, 2016 -> 03:09 PM) I hope they get swept in the NLDS. I've been the "Sox guy" ever since I was a little kid. Back in the day, we'd have some fun and go back and forth with it and then once the Sox won most of the s*** talking went away. All of a sudden everybody became Hawk fans. Recently, a bunch of people who don't know baseball and have never talked baseball with me have started talking the s*** again. I am annoyed by it. I don't hate the Cubs team or their players but I wish their fans' suffering to continue. Maybe that's immature, but oh well. 100% this. I'm married to a diehard Cubs fan who used to share season tickets with a couple buddies of mine. There's nothing she wants more in this world than a Cubs championship. Call me selfish, call me immature, but f*** that team. I can't stomach the thought of a Cubs World Series. I may not openly be as big of an asshole as I was during the 2003, 2007, & 2008 playoffs, but deep down inside I will be cheering against them.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 15, 2016 -> 06:49 PM) Wouldn't the more relevant statistic in determining if there's a racial bias in police shootings be the percentage of victims that were shot where lethal force was not justified (the percentage of times where lethal force was justified but not taken could be enlightening too)? If the percentage of unjustified shootings is the same between white and black victims then it shouldn't matter that the numbers don't match the demographics of the general population. The fact that minorities tend to end up in such situations more often is definitely a problem, but that's really a separate issue than what we're talking about here. Great post. Was hoping someone would post this.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Sep 14, 2016 -> 01:46 PM) if greg's actions in this thread don't convince many he's a troll, I don't know what will. POTY.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 06:14 PM) He does play with a lot of energy, swagger and flair...Hawk overrated it early, but it's not a negligible factor, either. I love those traits and he can be fun to watch, but you don't make roster regions over things like swagger and flair.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 02:13 PM) I don't know how you can see an argument that Lawrie is regressing. He looks to me like 100% the most consistent player I've ever seen. His OPS since that cup of coffee you refer to is .718, and it's .723 this season. His OBP outside of that season is .310, and in 2016 it's .310. He's hit the disabled list once every year other than 2015, and he hit the disabled list once in 2016. He's good for something in the range of 100-140 games, and he'll put up a .720 OPS. He's the most consistent ballplayer I've seen in years. You're using a stat that isn't park adjusted. His wRC+ has gone from 103 to 95 to 91 over the past three years, while his K rate has gone from 17.4% to 23.9% to 28.4% during this same time period. His BB rate is up a little bit this year, but that appears to be the result of a flukey April & May and it was dropping significantly before he got injured. The power numbers haven't really fluctuated much either. Like I said, I think an argument can be made he's regressing and base case scenario you can say he is what he is. And I'm not sure how using a 40 game range of missed playing time demonstrates consistency, but you do bring up another mark against him which is that he's frequently hurt. We're lucky we have a quality backup in Saladino, because if we did not, the overall production at the position could be drained by being forced to play replacement level players there more than you'd ideally like. Outside of slightly above average power for a 2B, I'm not sure what the big draw is to be honest. There is a reason Beane paid a hefty price for him and promptly gave him away. The dude is a physical freak, but a pretty mediocre baseball player. With only one year left of control and a better option already on the roster, I don't see the reason to keep him another year.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 09:50 AM) So you posted their ages and career PA, and then immediately put their 2016 numbers below them? For anyone who is justifiably confused, Lawrie's career wRC+ is 100, and Saladino's is 80. And that is why Lawrie will get the first chance to start over Saladino. I posted their career PA's to show that one is a finished product and the other is not despite their similar age. And I would have expected a lot more from you than simply comparing career wRC+ of a guy who has played 4+ full seasons vs. a guy with less one full season. One guy is improving and the other guy is arguably regressing. And take out Lawrie's ridiculous cup of coffee, which clearly has been an abberation, and he's closer to a 96 wRC+ hitter for his career (or basically where Saladino is right now). Factor in 2B defense, where Saladino has been the superior player this season (SSS) and I'm not sure what the argument is. Seems like you're expecting Saladino to regress for some reason and I can't understand why.

If we're rebuilding, let Sanchez & Garcia battle for the spot. If we're going for it, sign a veteran for the bench. Either way, Lawrie has no spot on this team IMO.

I needed like 7 points from Gurley and the Rams defense last night to win and those chumps got smoked. That teams looks like a complete disaster.

Player A Age 27 550 Career PA's .737 OPS 95 wRC+ 14.3 UZR/150 1.2 fWAR Player B Age 26.5 2,417 Career PA's .723 OPS 91 wRC+ -7.7 UZR/150 0.8 fWAR Those are only 2016 stats and the UZR/150 values are for 2B only. Regardless, I'll easily take player A as my starting 2B over player B. Not only has Saladino been far more productive this year due to his defense, he's also a less developed player and has room for growth despite being slightly older than Lawrie. I'm certain that with a full year of regular playing time his BB rate would increase (look at his minor league numbers) and he could become a 3 WAR 2B. Factor in the team control and there really is no argument for starting Lawrie over Saladino.

The Rams look like worst team in the NFL right now.

There goes the no-hitter and shutout in one fare swoop.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 11, 2016 -> 02:44 PM) First time I ever joined a Fantasy Football league, and ESPN.com's page has been down the whole day. Great work ESPN, not like anyone checks that on opening day! Glad I didn't have any last minute roster decisions, would be super pissed right now.

Sale is definitely the guy you move first. Biggest name, best stuff, most dominant, & least control. Someone will give up a haul for him, including several pieces that plug holes immediately. Whether you go for full-blown rebuild (my preference) or partial rebuild (my prediction), moving him is an absolute must. Moving Quintana makes sense in a full-rebuild, but you've got to get fair value for him. I can see a scenario where you move Sale this offseason and Quintana either at the deadline or during the 2017/18 offseason to maximize their markets. It would also buy you some time to see how the prospects you got in trades this offseason are working out and whether or not holding onto Quintana makes sense (unlikely IMO). You definitely do NOT move Rodon right now. His value hasn't come close to peaking and with 5 years of control left, he still has a chance to be part of our next competive core. And if the rebuild takes longer than expected, you move him in a year or two when/if he's established himself as a top of the rotation stater.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 11, 2016 -> 08:17 AM) John from Cincinnati? I hate that show, had a lot of potential, but it made no sense in the end or at least I didn't get it. Perhaps a second season would have helped in that regard. Just too weird for mainstream audiences to continue on.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 10, 2016 -> 10:18 AM) Yes, people are starting to see the light! With a few offseason moves this offense should at least be league average next season and, quite frankly, that's all they need to compete with this starting rotation assuming the #5 spot is properly addressed. I'm convinced you are Kenny Williams.

Year 1 Rebuilding Lineup 1B: Jose Abreu 2B: Yoan Moncada SS: Tim Anderson 3B: Matt Davidson LF: Jason Coats CF: Andrew Benintendi RF: Adam Eaton DH: Adam Lind C: Kevin Plawecki IF: Tyler Saladino OF: Charlie Tilson UT: Leury Garcia BC: Omar Narvaez Assumes Sale for Moncada/Benintendi/+ deal

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 9, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) Is he a LH power bat and better than Avi's career wRC+ of 89? If so, then he is an upgrade and an adequate no. 6 hitter behind Fowler, Eaton, Abreu, Frazier, and Melky. A guy with a wRC+ of 100 is not an adequate #6 hitter when you only have one elite hitter in your lineup. And you want to commit to this guy as your DH/1B for the next three years? Signing B & C free agents are why we're in this mess in the first place because they have limited room to decline and remain productive players. Look at Melky Cabrera for example, he's dropped off slighty with the bat and suddenly he's a sub 2 WAR player. Mitch Moreland is only a league average hitter today, so doesn't take much of a fall-off for him to become a below a negative overall contributor. He is simply not the answer at DH, no matter how bad Avi has been this year. We need much more significant upgrade at that spot if we're serious about competing next year. Someone like Edwin Encarcion would make sense. Problem is his market will be crazy and we probably don't have the money to get a player like him. Can't keep signing Moreland type free agents and expecting a different result.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 9, 2016 -> 11:03 AM) I'd say the guys I previously suggest fill those needs: Moreland and Fowler. For probably a slightly higher cost, Alvarez and Desmond would work as well. Mitch has a wRC+ of 100 this year and a career average of 101. He is not an impact offensive talent.