Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 02:36 PM) Well that's a douse of cold water. If Ventura is it, nothing is changing. The scary part is they may have wanted Ventura to return too depending on which reports you believe. If true, that shows me there is still no accountability in this organzation.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Oct 2, 2016 -> 02:28 PM) I really don't understand the view that Renteria is an in-house or organizational hire, he's been here for just a few months. He's not at all like the usual Sox manager hire. Exactly, and it was pretty obvious (at least IMO) that when they brought Renteria on as bench coach, the front office knew he was a strong possibility to be the next manager of the White Sox. He's an outside hire as far as I'm concerned.

Not sure what this plan accomplishes. We're still not good enough to compete, but hold onto guys like Melky & Frazier? I guess I don't get it.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 07:27 AM) Seriously? Uh, how about the money he's spent? In just the past two years, I'm counting about $150M in financial commitments to Melky, Robertson, Frazier, Shields, Samardzija, LaRoche, etc. Not to mention the long-term deals that he gave to Abreu, Eaton, Sale, Quintana, etc. That may not be George Steinbrenner money and one can question the intelligence of a couple of those moves (Shields, in particular). But it's pretty significant spending by somebody who doesn't have the Steinbrenner family's financial resources. If Reinsdorf doesn't care about winning, he wouldn't be spending like this. He could've saved a lot of money by fielding a team full of the Sox's crappy AA and AAA players. Look, I realize that you're pissed about the way that the organization is being run and I don't disagree with you about that point. But the idea that winning isn't a high priority for Reinsdorf is just dumb. Reinsdorf no doubt wants to win, but it has to be done his way. And quite frankly, that's the problem. He's not willing to go above and beyond what's necessary to overcome our poor farm system in order to build a winner. Signing a bunch of B free agents and never going into the red isn't going to cut it when we get very little help from the minors. He doesn't like utilizing loopholes, such as refusing to go over slot for years in the draft, and he's generally never been a big supporter of investing large dollars into said minor league system (with a few exceptions). Worst of all, he's built an organization with no accountability. How Buddy Bell is still here after years of development failure is beyond belief. The same arguably applies to KW, Hahn, & Ventura. Combine these factors amongst others, and it's no wonder we're stuck in baseball hell right now. I've never been a Reinsdorf hater, but we desperately need fresh blood at the top of this organzation.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 09:51 PM) Looks like I didn't miss much. JR loyal to a fault, sox fans (understandably including myself) outraged and DA defending any manager/coach. Unless that coach is Don Cooper!

It's just sad that Reinsdorf has created an organization with absolutely no accountability. Our team has been a joke Robin's entire tenure. If he's not part of the problem, then the front office most certaintly is. Something has to give at this point, even for a guy as loyal as Reinsdorf. Unfortunately for us, changes may not be made.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 02:30 PM) Switch rosters and let's see who the idiot is. Ugh, no one is arguing that managers have more of an impact than players. People are just stating that managers have some impact and that the team could improve some with a better manager. There's no doubt in my mind this team is better with Maddon, whether that's one game or four.

I will say this much, if the Sox retain Robin, Hahn, & KW, I will not be attending games next year. No change in management = no financial support from me.

Just got Shadow Complex for PS4 and my god the game is awesome.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Sep 26, 2016 -> 02:32 AM) I guess my FanDuel teams fit this thread, but with just Monday night to go, I am winning money in both of my $2 entries. One of them I am not confident in holding on to, but the other one I got a nice 20 pt cushion thanks to me being shrewed. I took Prescott and Bailey on both teams, but I took Beasley on the one that scored higher tonight. I hate pulling a spelling police move, but I seriously can't help myself with this one.

Floyd or Sharpe for a FLEX spot? Half PPR league.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 20, 2016 -> 07:26 AM) Reddick is probably the only one that won't cost a draft pick to sign. Pass. Agree, but going for it and not signing one of these guys would simply be another half-ass offseason.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 20, 2016 -> 07:49 AM) On the heels of 4 3 hit games, Saladino raised this season's OPS from .690 to .738 his last 9 starts. It's great that he did that, but some regressing is most likely going to occur. Before that, he didn't hit all that well. On top of that, he is hurt again. To think he is what he has been the last week and a half offensively, and he will be able to stay healthy enough to be a regular is right now a dream based on nothing. I like the guy. But he still needs to show he is for real with the bat, and can keep himself on the field. This is all nonsense. Saladino put up a .284/.315/.455/.770 slash line across 93 plate appearances in August. What changed between August & July? Oh that's right, he got consistent playing. There's nothing really flukey about those numbers either, so it's convenient you completely ignored them. And no one is arguing that Saladino is a .837 OPS player, so I'm not sure why you're cherry-picking his last nine games. Clearly his September are inflated due to a ridiculous .413 BABIP. Show me one poster who said that player is their expectation. I patiently wait for your heavily-spinned response.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 20, 2016 -> 07:22 AM) Why are you so gung ho for Leury Garcia and/or Carlos Sanchez? I'm not, but utility infielder is lower on my list of needs than OF, DH, & C.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 19, 2016 -> 10:14 PM) You're dreaming if you think we get any of those guys. Cespedes will stay with NYM, Encarnacion will sign some outrageously large contract, Trumbo too... Sure maybe we'll get Bautista/Reddick as consolations but it's not like they're that good anymore regardless I'm not sure what you're arguing. I don't want to waste $5M on Brett Lawrie. Whether we're rebuilding or going for it, I'd rather start Saladino. If we were to go for it, I sure as s*** wouldn't waste $5M on a 2B when we have gaping holes in CF, DH, & C. And quite frankly, we're not going to be legit contenders next year if we don't sign one of those guys I mentioned in my previous post (among other moves). I'm not suggesting that's going to happen, but am implying that's what it's going to take to turn this team into a winner. Again, wasting a chunk of our limited financial flexibility on a position of low need would be incredibly foolish. What part of my argument do you disagree with exactly?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 19, 2016 -> 09:02 PM) Unless we are getting a nice return, I don't see a need to open up a spot for Leury Garcia or Carlos Sanchez. We aren't getting a nice return for Brett Lawrie, so it sounds like you're good with going cheap somewhere else (CF, DH, & C), because we aren't going to have the money to fill all these holes. Not sure how that makes us better, but hey, I'm all for rebuilding anyways.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 19, 2016 -> 09:01 PM) Uh... who? Cespedes, Encarnacion, Bautista, Trumbo, Fowler, Desmond, & Reddick.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 19, 2016 -> 08:50 PM) What free agent? This class is the worst in modern history. Hell, Lawrie would be one of the top players on the market if he were a FA> So I take it you're all for rebuilding then? How do you expect this team to get better if you don't plan on signing any free agents? BTW, there are several DH/OF types that could help us next year. If we decide to "go for it" I'd rather commit my resources to one of them than Lawrie when we have a cheap in-house option place for 2B.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 19, 2016 -> 07:35 PM) To get the next Latos or Rollins? So ignore the holes all together then? Is that really what you're suggesting? Also, why can't we use that $5M towards a quality free agent?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 19, 2016 -> 04:58 PM) Unless you get a big offer for Lawrie, there is no reason to not bring him back again. He isn't cost prohibative. Not sure I agree there. We have several significant holes and the $5M+ Lawrie will earn next season could best be used to elsewhere.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 17, 2016 -> 11:05 PM) So did you know that Lawrie is younger than Saladino? Just curious. Why is Tyler still developing and Lawrie can't? The simple answer is because Lawrie has 2,417 major league plate appearances while Saladino only has 565. Age and development don't always go hand and hand.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Sep 17, 2016 -> 03:42 PM) Guys...there's nothing wrong with him in a backup role. Sure, but not if Brett Lawrie is starting ahead of him. Saladino is a better player IMO for a fraction of the cost.

QUOTE (StrykerSox @ Sep 17, 2016 -> 02:19 PM) Saladino has had an 18 game hot streak (OPS of .935 in that span). Before that, he was at a .674 OPS. That puts him dead last among qualified MLB 2Bs. Now at .738, there are only five MLB two-baggers below him (Phillips, Gennett, Panik, Utley and Harrison). Let's not act like Saladino is some proven hitter who can only be prevented from starting at second next year by the acquisition of Moncada or better. He's had a nice 18 games, but he's been BAD for most of his career. If regular Tyler (as in the player we've seen for 88% of his career) shows up and he's a starter, we are going to sink hard. Tyler Saladino has 565 career plate appearances. His entire career is effectively a rookie season. You act like he's sucked for years and ignore the progress he has made this season, in particular when he's gotten consistent playing time. And why do cite offensive comps and ignore the value he provides in the field and on the bases? If he simply he kept up his current production over the course of a full season he'd be right around 15th or so in fWAR among 2B. Honestly, I can't quite grasp your hatred for him, but it's really, really bizarre.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 17, 2016 -> 01:04 PM) The White Sox were .500 when Rollins was let go. The decision didn't cost games. Did you just cite the team's record as "proof" a -0.1 WAR player didn't negatively impact the team?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 17, 2016 -> 09:14 AM) And for the record, after last night Tyler Saladino has an OPS+ of 102 on the season. That is without including his plus defense on the season. Accorinding to Fangraphs he has put up about 1.2 WAR and about $9.7 million in value when he has played somewhere close to half a seasons worth of baseball. Going by baseball reference, he is at 1.8 war. Thanks for posting this. And this is a guy who is still basically a rookie based on playing time. I think a lot of posters on here underrate him because he was never considered a top prospect and overall has underwhelming minor league stats. However, those of us followed him closely since being drafted always knew he had pretty solid tools with a decent amount of upside. His 2011 season at A+ clearly demonstrated that upside. And despite stalling a bit in the upper minors, he eventually worked through his issues and started hitting AAA pitching. If you look at his minor league BB & K rates, he's still got plenty of room for growth at the major league level. With his defensive & base running abilities, it's not going to take much more improvement with the bat to make him a 3 WAR player. Unless we acquire a Moncada type prospect, Saladino should be the starting 2B in 2017 whether we go for it or rebuild.