Chicago White Sox

Maybe you need to do some self reflecting or at the very minimum reread your first post, because your attitude is clearly not “I’ll believe it when I see it” no matter how you try to spin it.

Yeah, the 100 loss team doesn’t a 6 WAR player because Nick fucking Madrigal will fix it all!

Jose Abreu’s 2019 salary is not preventing us from adding Machado or Harper.

WSD’s offseason preview: https://www.barstoolsports.com/preview/1132963?preview=true

You are slowly becoming the new Greg and trust me you do NOT want become the new Greg. Here, say it with me Jack, “the Sox will sign Machado, the Sox will sign Machado, the Sox will sign Machado”. Doesn’t optimsm feel good for a change?

We learned our less with the Ohtani presentation. This Machado one has a interactive VR segment and therefore is a sure thing.

The other options are more appealing at face value, so the Sox will have to bring their A game when it comes to selling these guys on Chicago. I do think we are very capable of a building a compelling narrative, but part of that will come down to Reinsdorf’s commitment to bring in additional pieces in the future. No one is jumping onboard a 100 loss train (short of a massive overpay) unless we convince these guys better days are coming and coming soon. Jerry has to man up and sign up for some future spending in order for our sales pitch to really sparkle.

I personally think Rondon is our most interesting fringe prospect. Would love to get him an opportunity next year, but that will be challenging we sign a free agent 3B. I agree you don’t move Yoan to CF just for Rondon, but it is a nice little consolation price IMO.

Below are Bovada’s odds for where Machado lands. I honestly think the only team with the means and more incentive to land him than us are the Phillies. The Yankees could just say “fuck it” after the Red Sox won the series and decide they must have him, but I think they’ll proceed cautiously because he’d be a luxury for them. I’m not sure I buy any other team being serious players. Maybe the Cubs if they decide to move on from Russell, but I still don’t see how that could work financially in the long-run. Where will Manny Machado play game 1 of the 2019 MLB Season? Philadelphia Phillies 3/2 Los Angeles Dodgers 9/4 New York Yankees 3/1 Miami Marlins 8/1 Los Angeles Angels 9/1

No one is putting Clarkin on their 40 man, so he should be an easy guy to outright. We’ll definitely have to get rid one of our outfielders at some point and Tilson is probably the most obvious candidate to your point.

I really hope not. He may be a great clubhouse guy, but let’s at least throw someone out there with some potential.

If we were to sign Machado, I’d 100% for signing McCutchen to a two year deal. A potential lineup like the one below could be awesome if everything clicks: Moncada, CF McCutchen, RF Machado, 3B Abreu, 1B Jimenez, LF Palka, DH Anderson, SS Narvaez, C Rondon, 2B Obviously we’d have to address the pitching staff (and probably on the cheap), but at least we’d have an offense worth watching all while not blocking any prospects of real significance long-term.

If the Sox add Machado, they will most definitely splurge on a few more short-term pieces and give this team a chance to be a contender in the highly unlikely “everything goes right” scenario. The real challenge is the OF. Jimenez will be up at the end of April, but the other two spots are huge question marks. Engel & Avi would be the starters right now in CF & RF respectively and it would be very difficult to count on either of them. With Basabe the closest prospect to the majors and still adjusting to AA, I feel like you pretty much have to add one proven OF to a short-term deal if we land Manny. And preferably that would be a CF but the market it pretty much dry after Pollack and he’d require too long of a commitment IMO.

See, this is a great counterpoint. I agree there is a real element of risk by adding additional change into the mix. I’d still probably be willing to take that gamble, but I can today understand why others would rather keep him focused on hitting.

I appreciate your response. The goal of this thread was to spark conservation around how these two guys may fit in the long-term. I get the easy answer is to say “too soon to worry about it” but all organizations (sports & other fields) think though these types of things. I really think it’s an interesting exercise to talk through where these guys might fit if both end up making it. And while thinking through this myself, the question came up whether Moncada is potentially better suited for CF than 2B. To me, that’s the most interesting angle to explore here. Ignore Madrigal for a second and all our minor league OF depth. Based on tools alone, what position should Moncada be playing? To me the answer is clearly CF. I feel like the main reason we’re sticking with him at 2B is because of organizational depth and it being the position he’s most comfortable at. And that’s fine if we were competing, but given we’re in the middle of a rebuild, why not put him a spot that could optimize his value? By all means, people can argue that he’s better suited for 2B, but that’s not really happening in this thread. People are ignoring the proposition because they think it’s strictly tied to Madrigal. Glad you at least acknowledged that part of my post, because I think the idea is fascinating on its own merits.

One of the underlying assumptions in my OP was that 2B is not Moncada’s best position. I truly believe he would be more valuable in the OF where his tools play up. I’m guessing I’m in the minority on that viewpoint, but it’s not as simple as “make way for Madrigal”. Also, I truly think people here are being way too conservative with Madrigal’s projected timeline. High-end / polished college draft picks typically move fast. Schwarber, Conforto, Swanson, Bregman, & Benintendi all recent examples of college picks who made the majors in their full professional season. Madrigal was a similar ranked prospect to those guys & has tools that translate better to professional baseball. If he doesn’t move fast, it should be a major red flag as he should not require a ton of development.

Good...hopefully a lot of organizations get a bit nervous throwing $350M+ his way.

Great article! I really hope the organization is prepared to go all-in for Manny. He would be such a game-changer both on & off the field.

To those in favor of Harper over Machado simply because of the latter’s “antics”, definitely read the article below on Harper’s defense: https://www.google.com/amp/s/sportsinfosolutionsblog.com/2018/09/20/why-does-bryce-harper-have-25-defensive-runs-saved/amp/

I’m starting to get concerned about your reading comprehension skills. You said people were arguing to rush Madrigal to replace Moncada, which I called you out on for being bullshit. Now you’re going in a new direction, although at least this time it’s the right one.

Well sure, the money will need to be there. But I think outside the win now factor, there are a ton of plusses to joining the White Sox. And I fully disagree with your assessment of the marketing opportunities. Chicago is a major market and these guys would be the face of the franchise and not just another star. I think the potential would be huge.

No one is arguing to rush Madrigal to replace Moncada, that’s just a straight up lie.

Yeah probably. Obviously I’d see how he looks in the spring, but I’d prefer he start the 2019 season in High A. He’s going to be 23 next July, can’t be babying 2nd round college draft picks out of the gate. I simply don’t put much stock into his drafted season numbers.

You’re all over the place man and ignoring the last two seasons. We really don’t rush guys anymore, it’s actually the complete opposite. Moncada was an exception to some extent and even that one is debatable. He had a wRC+ of 130 when he was called up, so it’s not like he wasn’t having success. His K rate was bad though (28%) and probably should have been a red flag that he needed more development time. Hahn claimed he needed to face major league pitching to make those final adjustments. With the benefit of hindsight I think I can say they were wrong, but there have guys like Kris Bryant who had similar swing & miss problems in AAA only to address them in the majors. The development path for elite talents is sometimes atypical. Also, the other rush jobs you’re citing were pre Getz, so stop ripping the Sox for something they’ve addressed for the most part. And holding back Eloy was certainly the right decision given how everything else shaked out last year. I can’t blame them for calling up Kopech after more than a year in AAA and being absolutely dominant at the end. There were simply no more excuses with him. No idea what Eloy or Kopech have to with the Madrigal discussion we’re having though. The Sox did a fantastic (if not conservative) job developing both of them.

2 months facing minor league pitching with a wrist injury. The general rule of thumb is to not overreact to drafted season performance, let alone when someone is dealing with a serious injury. I mean, based on your logic Steele Walker should start next season in Great Falls. Quite frankly, your view on this is pretty absurd. If Madrigal looks shitty in spring training then maybe I’d be willing to ignore all my scouting reports and start him in High A, but otherwise him gutting through an injury should not result in a lesser assignment.