SCCWS

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 12:12 PM) Among catcher talk, I just want to throw this in... there have been numerous signs in the past year that the Sox are not enamored with Phegley's approach and attitude. It is possible he's changed that, but he was benched midway through a game and through a second game in Charlotte during the season. And his defense is still a struggle. My point is, if I had to guess, I don't think he's in the org next year, let alone in the majors. I'd bet the org is happier with Nieto and even Smith as possible 2015 backup options than they are with Phegley. Not sure that is true. Below quote in September could be Hahn blowing smoke but September 4, 2014, 8:47 PM White Sox general manager Rick Hahn said this week Josh Phegley "forced himself back into the conversation" about Sox catchers with the work he did with Triple-A Charlotte this season.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 07:56 PM) Belt: I don't know what his value is so its difficult to say. I don't see the Giants trading Belt since they will lose Morse to FA, they can just play Belt in LF. As much as I like the idea of Belt, I think its more a pipe dream than anything. As for Hanley, I agree. I only mentioned 2B due to his speed and the possible desire for the Sox to play Semien at 3B. As for the farm guys you listed. I agree they hold little to no value at this point but could serve as a PTBN in a trade, the type that tips the scale just enough for the other teams GM to bite. Semien was worse than Gillaspie at 3B. 10 errors in 31 games is a red flag that he would at least need a full season in AAA learning 3B if that is what management plans for him.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 11:51 AM) I'll keep it short: I don't think you should trade a guy if there's absolutely no one to replace him. Reed was a suitable closer. I happen to think he was a good 25-year-old closer (40 saves in 2013), many say he was average to bad in spite of his save totals. The same people say Hahn had a replacement in Nate Jones, who got hurt. I feel about Jones the way many feel about Reed, that he was never the answer. The guy the Sox got for Reed (Davidson) doesn't bother me near as much as we traded a guy who was not effectively replaced. I think the Sox reached 2 over .500 at one point after a good amount of games this past season despite having no bullpen. My contention is not having a closer and other bullpen pieces finally was the reason this team got buried back into oblivion. Yes, I'd feel a lot different about the trade if Nate Jones replaced Reed and been lights out with 30-50 saves. In actuality, nobody replaced Reed. As far as Davidson, he appears to be a huge bust, but some insist he had to be devastated after not getting the job in spring training and it sent him into a season-long tailspin. Maybe he'll make the team next spring training and be the answer at third for 10-15 years to come. We shall see. I am not a Reed hater, though. Even though many on here say he sucks, I like his save totals. So what if he has some shaky saves. So does Greg Holland of the Royals. He puts guys on base in many of his saves but usually gets the save. So far I'd say Arizona won the trade; that could change if Davidson turns into a good to great hitter/fielder. Greg: A couple of thoughts 1. If Hahn felt the Sox were far from ready to compete, I can see trading a young( average) closer for a good 3B prospect. But I felt Reed was better than average and Davidson was maybe a better than average prospect. Usually you get a premium back when trading pitching and the Sox did not 2. If Davidson's major decline was caused by being devastated as some have said, I would say that is a big concern. If he ever arrives in the majors and has a slump the Sox will need to keep him away from bridges and tall buildings. 3. Maybe Jones was the heir apparent. But too many posters on this site just assume that anyone can close. Besides "stuff" which Jones may have there is also the mental approach. Until a set-up guy can demonstrate the ability to close games he is not a closer. Matt Thornton and Daniel Bard are two examples that come to mind quickly.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 11:51 AM) I'll keep it short: I don't think you should trade a guy if there's absolutely no one to replace him. Reed was a suitable closer. I happen to think he was a good 25-year-old closer (40 saves in 2013), many say he was average to bad in spite of his save totals. The same people say Hahn had a replacement in Nate Jones, who got hurt. I feel about Jones the way many feel about Reed, that he was never the answer. The guy the Sox got for Reed (Davidson) doesn't bother me near as much as we traded a guy who was not effectively replaced. I think the Sox reached 2 over .500 at one point after a good amount of games this past season despite having no bullpen. My contention is not having a closer and other bullpen pieces finally was the reason this team got buried back into oblivion. Yes, I'd feel a lot different about the trade if Nate Jones replaced Reed and been lights out with 30-50 saves. In actuality, nobody replaced Reed. As far as Davidson, he appears to be a huge bust, but some insist he had to be devastated after not getting the job in spring training and it sent him into a season-long tailspin. Maybe he'll make the team next spring training and be the answer at third for 10-15 years to come. We shall see. I am not a Reed hater, though. Even though many on here say he sucks, I like his save totals. So what if he has some shaky saves. So does Greg Holland of the Royals. He puts guys on base in many of his saves but usually gets the save. So far I'd say Arizona won the trade; that could change if Davidson turns into a good to great hitter/fielder.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 9, 2014 -> 06:14 PM) The Sox have a 5 year board and my guess is it goes like this for SS: 2015: Alexei (under contract) 2016: Alexei (option year) 2017: Tim Anderson 2018: Tim Anderson 2019: Tim Anderson Honestly, I think 2016 is possible for Anderson if he has big 2015. So basically what I'm saying is extending Alexei doesn't make sense even when ignoring his age. He is very young but I don't think we see Anderson for a while. He has really struggled defensively at SS in the minors so far. He is way behind Semien and we saw his stuggles defensively when he was promoted. Hopefully the Sox have someone to work w Semien and Anderson defensively because both look like solid hitters.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 9, 2014 -> 06:58 AM) We don't have quality #3 & #4 starters, so we're not contending without both Quintana & Rodon. Maybe quality starters, especially 3-5 are not as valuable as we think. The attached article says that Boston last year and Baltimore this year had outstanding seasons without having an ace. The 4 teams still standing are not teams with outstanding team ERA for example. http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/re...e-from-that.ece

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Oct 6, 2014 -> 08:11 AM) While he may not be worth $12 million, the length of the deal is huge. Compare that to Shields who may get in the ballpark of 4/$60 or 5/$72 or something like that. Sure, Shields is the better pitcher, there's a lot more risk with the long-term deal. Cubs and Red Sox may both be interested in Masterson based on his time spent in Boston minors and majors. If he takes $8Mil and still struggles as a starter, maybe he will try closer. I believe he set up for Papelbon when he first came up.

I think Abreu is -11 not -17.

I heard a discussion on fielding recently and it was brought up that Oakland was interesting. They were 2nd in AL in ERA but next to last in fielding defense. The 5 playoff teams in AL finished 2-3-9-10-14 in AL fielding defense. That stat is mediocre but it is an indication that defense did not have a major affect on the outcome this season. I am concerned about defense as well which is why I don't like Semien as an option in 2015. He was worse than Gillaspie at 3B.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 11:47 PM) Way I see it, with an average bullpen we're probably looking at a .500 ballclub this year give or take a game. Sox bullpen lost 32 games, worst in the league. The team in 16th, what I'm calling average, lost 23. That 9 loss differential is the difference between 73 wins and 1 game above .500. I for 1 am a big Avi Garcia fan, and think having him for more than 46 games is already gonna be more beneficial to the offense. If he can tap into that potential we're talking about another 2-3 wins. So right there, IMO with a whole year of Avi and an improved bullpen, this team, before adding to the rotation and lineup is capable of winning ~ 84-85 games. Of course there will indeed be additions to the lineup, and at the very least a fella by the name of Carlos Rodon will more than likely see a lot of time in the rotation. Assuming they hit on most/all their additions, it's very possible this team can compete. There may be another way to look at the bullpen. If we can improve the 3-5 starters, there may be less reliance on the bullpen to deliver 3 innings of relief every game. But in all honesty, Hahn spent $7 Mil on Lindstrom and Beli so he spent some money on the pen and combined with trading Reed and the Jones injury, the results were terrible.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 1, 2014 -> 09:20 AM) But stop and think the other way. The Yankees won a world series by giving Sabathia and ARoid big money. I still don't see them giving back that 2009 world series trophy. Pujols and hamilton have had down seasons but the Angels had the best record in MLB this year. Both Fielder and Crawford have proven to be moveable contracts. Out of that list, the only one that is really a complete disaster for the team that signed it is Howard's extension. Somebody, maybe the Cubs or Yankees, is going to ante up a fortune for each of those 2. When is the last time the top starting pitcher on the market signed for less than you thought he would? I think Lester to Boston for 6 yrs and closer to 30 mil. Boston is supposedly his 1st choice

Story in Boston paper yesterday estimates Scherzer and Lester will get 6 years at $25+Mil per year and Shields will get 4 years in $90 mil range. Cole Hamels will also be available at 4 and $90 but he will require compensation.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Sep 30, 2014 -> 12:51 AM) Rome wasn't built in a day. The Sox team Hahn inherited was awful. Outside of the Cubs and 'Stros, and argument could be made coming into this season the Sox had the worst MLB talent in all of MLB in '13. Furthermore, unlike those teams, the Sox also were in the unevniable position as having a bottom 5 farm. In fact, when he took over, there were really only 3-5 players on the entire 40 man roster you'd consider possible starters on the next Sox playoff team: Alexei, Quintana, and Sale ok for sure, then name 2 more from the opening day roster in '13. It's slim pickings. Hahn has accomplished in a very short time a) getting the team's MLB talent back to mediocre and b) getting the MilB talent back to mediocre (or possibly even good depending on how highly you view Rodon/Adama/Danish/Montas/Bassitt. He's done this without bumping payroll, in fact he's done this while CUTTING payroll. The team is younger, has 3 foundational players (and contracts) and has enough prospects and payroll flexibility to make a run starting possibly as soon as next year. You don't go from 68 wins or whatever to 90 overnight. That they were 10 better this season while still playing a bunch of dead wood (to see if it wasn't quite rotted to the core in the case of most of it) is a very impressive GM job. Look at how other team's flounder in their tear downs. Hahn did in 1 offseason what it took the 'Stros and Cubs to do in 3-4 and he's done it with hardly any bad mistakes. You can preach on about how awful Paulino was but come on man, he was basically a spring invite that cost the amount of revenue from 1/162 of their MLBAM share. It was a nothing cost move that cost them nothing, and might have even (ya!) gotten them a protected 8th pick rather than a non protected later pick. Anyways, my grades, don't care about the pen won't list them other than as a group: position players nieto: D: --upside is there but needs more seasoning in AAA. Framing awful, hitting has potential, good tools. turned in a OK year for a backup catcher but I'm not gonna curve grade flowers: C- --late season surge and steady defense earn him a passing grade but hardly a standout year Kong: D- -- bumped revenue, was like -2 WAR on field. Abreu: A -- turned from incomplete slugger to triple threat down the stretch, one of the top 5 hitters in MLB, stud. played in 145 games, proved fairly durable if fatigued at end Beckham: D- --defense was usual solid, but with such an awful bat he'd need to be the wiz at SS to carry a 260 OBP. Semian: C- -- showed flashes but also major holes in his game. was hurt by the move to 3B IMO but his bat was MIA except for a few late game heroics Sanchez: C- -- really could be a D but at times an elite glove at 2B. Hitting obviously needs to improve but with that glove he could carry a 260/300/340 type line. Him and Semian will be key next year to any thoughts of contention imo Alexei: B+ -- another year of staying healthy and putting up around 4 WAR. Very much enjoy watching Alexei and his bat was pretty good for a SS in 2014. they don't hit like they did in the sillyball era Conor: B- -- again, no curves, ended up 1.2 fWAR and 1.6 bWAR, which eh, is probably what he is. Needs a platoon partner badly. Could be why Semian is playing so much 3B -- he's the platoon in '15. Keppinger: F -- if he had played, he would have sucked. Garcia: C+ -- Bat was even slower than usual after the injury but ran into enough and took enough walks to where you can squint and see a pretty damn good hitter. Middle case seems he'll be an OK starter. Hard worker to come back. Moises: C+ -- toolsy. May never be more than a 4th OF, but worth taking a flyer on in '15 spring Taylor: INC -- nothing there Tank: D -- brutal defense, no average, decent power, adds up to a below replacement level player that will probably be traded for scraps Eaton: B+ -- easy A if he had played 150 games instead of 123. Gets on base at a good clip (361), plays great defense, and can run the bases a bit. Not much of a base stealer but his reads and 1st to 3rd are top notch. Danks: D- -- one day he'll have a lifetime job in the sox marketing dpt if he wants. Leury: F -- sucks, should have been in AAA but Sox were incredibly thin at SS depth Willkins: F -- see, Danks. future FO mid level executive if he wants starters: Sale: A- -- some injury time missed, otherwise can't ask for more, top 3 starter in MLB. Q: A- -- workhorse, went over 200 ip, tough luck loser often, but top 15 mlb starter Johnson: F -- has to be injured, lost his razor thin margin when he went from 90-92 to 88-90. Not optimistic he'll ever bounce back, seems to have a shoulder problem Paulino: F -- easy come easy go Carroll : D+ -- actually was a decent facsmille of a MLB quality 4thish, 5th starter at times. Othertimes proved he's a long man at best, absolute best. Noesi: C -- did a solid job, passable 4th starter in a mediocre rotation, solid 5th in a good one though. cheap for the next couple years good pickup bassit: C+ -- if he can keep that control up he'll be a solid MLB starter. Not sure he really can though. Pen, grade as whole: F -- Only guys with decent FIPS are I believe Putnam and Petricka. Eveyrone else pretty much sucked. FO: Hahn: A -- see above Robin: D -- players like him. awful tactician, has no concept of platoons and lineup construction. loves to make a move only to be easily countered by the opposing team Cooper: B -- didn't have much to work with, made some improvements with Noesi. The cream rose with Q and Sale. Will have his most important project since Sale next year with Rodon. Stevenson: B -- In general, I think he was a positive influence but maybe only because the talent was better. Team grade: B-: An exciting year that had many great walk off wins and some elite indidivudal performances. The Sox haven't had a hitter this good since Frank. They haven't had a pitcher this good since...? The bullpen was awful,a function of throwing a bunch of s*** at the wall and hoping it turned into gold plated s***. Didn't happen and the team also gave up a ton of runs at the margins with awful defense in the corners (for the most part) and below replacement batting lines spread throughout the lineup. THe future however should see those holes filled, either through acquiring some salary and/or trades, or in house prospects. When Robin was hired, I was one of the posters who complained that hiring a manager with zero experience was a bad move. Many people defended the move saying that a manager does not need experience to do a good job. Now I think the bullpen and overall weak roster was the main problem with the 2014 team. That weak roster extended to the AAA team since that is where teams look to find replacements for injuries and non-performers. You give Hahn an A and he is responsible for the overall weak lineup and the makeup of the bullpen. You give Cooper a B and he is responsible for the production from that bullpen that Hahn gave him. But you give Robin a D for the overall results. If Hahn had assembled a good bullpen or if Cooper developed a good bullpen the team probably was a .500 team. That would have made robin a pretty good manager.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 29, 2014 -> 11:32 AM) I thought he looked way, way better in September and the numbers bear that out: .273/.333/.485/.818, 6.8% BB, 17.6% K, .359 wOBA, 129 wRC+. He genuinely looks like he could be a very good player wherever it is that he ends up. FWIW, had Semien been eligible for the top 25 prospects in the system at mid-season, he would have ranked #3 for me. So far he is a below average defensive player. Now in fairness he has bounced around among 3B-SS-2B. But in 60 games in the ML he had 14 errors. Putting that in perspective, Gillaspie had 12 in 127 games.

So basically we got all star performances from Sale, Q, Eaton and Abreu and we only improved by 10 games. I am afraid .500 next year may be a stretch.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 27, 2014 -> 02:35 PM) Why wouldn't it? Switch hitter, high OBP. Low k rate. The White Sox are most likely not going to sign him, but he is a great hitter who, if you gave him a 3 year contract, would be 38 when that contract ended. Saying he will physically fall apart like Paulie just based on age is silly. There are plenty of examples of elite hitters remaining elite at this age. I agree to some extent. But Paulie was a 1st baseman and he declined rapidly. VMart was a ctacher for many years so his decline may show up earlier based on the wear and tear of the position he played. But every body is different and he has not shown a decline at the plate so far.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 01:37 PM) I love Danish and am hopeful for Hawkins, but let's be honest -- you're giving up a potential #3 starter who might be a good reliever instead plus a guy who you'd be happy with IF he becomes what Belt is today. Sure, both those guys COULD become stars, but they both very likely won't. That's worth it for a solid left-handed corner OF with solid pop that is controllable for 3 more years. How is he a corner OF. He has started less than 10% of his career starts in LF and in half those games he was pulled late for defense. He got moved to IB and he is a pretty good defensively there. We need an above average corner outfielder defensively to offset Avi on the other side.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 24, 2014 -> 09:03 AM) Isn't that a downgrade to Tampa's offense? Not necessarily. Tampa would be giving up a 33yr old $7 Mil # 1 0r 2 batter for a 25 yr old # 5 or 6 batter who makes less than 1/2 what Zobrist does. Tampa got 2 young infielders in the Price trade so they may make Zobrist available.

QUOTE (LDF @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 09:29 PM) that is a very interesting slant. I like it, at this time, I can't think of a counter. great job. How about Ben Zobrist? He is 33 but still a very valuable player finishing up a $7 Mil contract. Tampa needs offense so I wonder if we could package Viciedo+ Danks + cash ( Tampa won't want the 14 Mil) for Zobrist and a young RH pitcher. Sox could stick Zobrist at 2nd or OF or even SS, he adds speed and OBP as well as some pop from the left. Tampa always has good young arms at AAA. Danks has pitched pretty well at the Trop and Viciedo gives them a younger hitter w some pop behind Longoria

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 23, 2014 -> 06:44 AM) Ichiro...too old, more of a 4th/5th guy now Granderson...was often mentioned as a possible free agent signing in the offseason, probably too expensive for that level of production, basically a platoon guy at this point in his career Aoki...maybe Markakis...depends on the cost in dollars/years Nava...meh Jay...don't think Cardinals will make him available after bounceback year Ethier...see Carl Crawford below Leonys Martin...another Cuban, coming off pretty decent (for him) offensive year Rasmus...will the output be worth the "potential" tag often attached? can anyone get through to him? Denard Span...quietly having a very strong season for Nationals Carl Crawford....either or neither Ethier can stay or go (bad attempt at pun) Josh Hamilton....often debated/discussed Matt Joyce...this is the typical KW bounceback/buy low candidate after a disappointing 2014 Gerardo Parra....declining defensive splits, nothing close to average offensively Domonic Brown....see Matt Joyce, non-tender candidate who's another version of Dayan Viciedo in many ways Dexter Fowler...would definitely have some interest in him, depending on cost CoCo Crisp...how many baseball lives can this guy have? about as many as Victor Martinez seemingly Grady Sizemore...just for Lillian if she's still lurking I disqualified Melky Cabrera off the bat for being out of our probable price range Nava. Has had a solid 2nd half of season. he can also play 1st base as well. Would come cheap. But I don't think he can play center

QUOTE (beautox @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 04:25 AM) Honestly on that play i thought Semein showed a fair amount of range and Avi should've called him off but this is a young players being young. What I've really like out of Semein since his call up is the following: .282/ .333/ .436 - .769 he has cut his walk and strikeout rate (4.7% BB 16.3% K) in half respectively because he is being more aggressive in the count. I feel in this SSS he is showing he is capable of dropping his strikeout rate and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see him move his walk rate north of 8% and closer to 12%ish while maintaining his current strikeout rate, his .ISO looks great out of the middle infield even better if he plays short full time. But remember call-up numbers don't mean much. The level of competition tends to drop off as opponents are also using AA and AAA talent especially pitching. Even defensively youmg players may play different positions as we have seen Semien move around. Hopefully he arrives next spring with a set position and looks better than he did this spring.

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 09:08 AM) http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/group/9/sort/winPercent 8th worst record, but same amount of losses as the Reds and Phillies. The Padres would have to lose four more games than the Sox over the last 8 games for the Sox to fall out of the 10 worst. So the protected pick is looking safe unless something crazy happens. Also, quite a race for the first pick: Texas and Arizona have 93 losses, and Colorado has 91. Draft lottery, please. Make a TV show out of it. Very limited interest in the MLB Draft. Football and basketball drafts attract attention because the players most likely will make the roster the following year. I am pretty sure I heard where 1 player from the 2012 draft has made it to a ML roster other than the Sept call-ups.

I don't get to see a lot of games. But I notice that in very limited ML action this year, Semien has had a lot of errors. We complained about Conor and Beckham but is Semien really bad or just being moved around too much

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 03:44 AM) I hate Boston too, more than any team in baseball, but I'd rather he go there than to anyone in the Central which would affect us much more. If all the rumors are true, Boston will be bringing Lester back. That would probably eliminate them from going after another big FA starter. but they certainly have tons of young AAA talent to trade for a 2nd starter. Their offense has had a major upgrade with their 2 Cuban additions in the outfield so they probably will focus on Lester+ another starter.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Sep 19, 2014 -> 11:27 AM) If you can find a proven 30 HR 3B that a team would have traded for a mediocre closer, please let Rick Hahn know immediately. Welcome to rebuilding. Sometimes you have to take chances on guys and they won't always work out. And let's not declare Davidson dead after one bad AAA season at age 23. Either way, Addison Reed wasn't gonna be the closer for the next Sox playoff team, nor will he be the closer for the next DBacks playoff team. Let's not declare Addison Reed at 25 can't be a closer for a playoff team.