caulfield12 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) I know you're going to tempted to argue that Moncada and Collins injected into the line-up makes you competitive the second half of 2017. Or that Burdi is ready to be a big league closer. BUT...No. It doesn't. We have no real CFer, DH or ace any longer. Do the prudent thing and let Moncada, Collins, Burdi, Kopech and Basabe develop. Be patient, for once. It's extremely important to determine if Collins can stick as a catcher...rather than rushing his bat as a DH/1B and trying to preserve his health. The premium value comes from his being able to catch decently AND be a plus hitter at that position. Then you have 3 solutions up the middle, and a possible 4th in Basabe for CF in 2019. Look to trade Eaton, Q, Nate Jones and Melky at their peak respective values with the White Sox if the right deals come along. Don't accept anything less than fair deals, obviously. Hold Abreu and see the chemistry with him and Moncada until at least July. He seems to be a good mentor, from all we know about him. Jose, if he has another first half like he ended 2016, becomes a much more coveted piece. His value is still down, now. It's also easier to imagine him sticking around, on the other hand. Frazier and Robertson, hold and wait on a rebound...look to trade in July, decide if Frazier might be a long-term stabilizing force to keep in the fold, do you get more back immediately from a trade or go through the QO process? Extend? Depends on what pieces are left from Q/Eaton. Does Trey M. make any progress? But Robertson goes with the first/best offer. Fulmer is the obvious choice for the rotation spot at the moment. Do not rush Burdi. Give him at least one full season in the minors starting. Same with Kopech, and Hansen, for that matter. If someone blows you away with an offer for Gonzalez, great. If not, he is a rotation place holder. Same with Shields, who's seemingly a sunk cost at this point but might have some value yet. Let Tilson, Lawrie/Garcia (DH) play and see what you can get out of those latter two or move on. Right now, Saladino's going to have 2-3 months of regular at-bats at second until Moncada's deemed ready. Edited December 6, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 And the award for biggest jump to conclusions goes to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 oh hello there instant reaction and prediction, how are you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I'll be honest....I'm kind of pissed we haven't made anymore deals yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 6, 2016 Author Share Posted December 6, 2016 Isn't that what message boards are for? How many White Sox fans honestly expect Q, Eaton, Jones and Cabrera to all be traded before July 31st? That's not even considering Frazier, Robertson and Abreu (yet). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:07 PM) oh hello there instant reaction and prediction, how are you QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:09 PM) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 He contradicts himself unless Abreu is supposed to go to Charlotte. Keep Moncada in the minors but have him develop a bond with Abreu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxnfins Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:12 PM) He contradicts himself unless Abreu is supposed to go to Charlotte. Keep Moncada in the minors but have him develop a bond with Abreu. This. Thank you, DA. Abreu stays because of Moncada, IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 04:12 PM) He contradicts himself unless Abreu is supposed to go to Charlotte. Keep Moncada in the minors but have him develop a bond with Abreu. Gotta say I was a lil confused there too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panerista Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:07 PM) And the award for biggest jump to conclusions goes to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeGone7 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) I know you're going to tempted to argue that Moncada and Collins injected into the line-up makes you competitive the second half of 2017. Or that Burdi is ready to be a big league closer. BUT...No. It doesn't. We have no real CFer, DH or ace any longer. Do the prudent thing and let Moncada, Collins, Burdi, Kopech and Basabe develop. Be patient, for once. It's extremely important to determine if Collins can stick as a catcher...rather than rushing his bat as a DH/1B and trying to preserve his health. The premium value comes from his being able to catch decently AND be a plus hitter at that position. Then you have 3 solutions up the middle, and a possible 4th in Basabe for CF in 2019. Look to trade Eaton, Q, Nate Jones and Melky at their peak respective values with the White Sox if the right deals come along. Don't accept anything less than fair deals, obviously. Hold Abreu and see the chemistry with him and Moncada until at least July. He seems to be a good mentor, from all we know about him. Jose, if he has another first half like he ended 2016, becomes a much more coveted piece. His value is still down, now. It's also easier to imagine him sticking around, on the other hand. Frazier and Robertson, hold and wait on a rebound...look to trade in July, decide if Frazier might be a long-term stabilizing force to keep in the fold, do you get more back immediately from a trade or go through the QO process? Extend? Depends on what pieces are left from Q/Eaton. Does Trey M. make any progress? But Robertson goes with the first/best offer. Fulmer is the obvious choice for the rotation spot at the moment. Do not rush Burdi. Give him at least one full season in the minors starting. Same with Kopech, and Hansen, for that matter. If someone blows you away with an offer for Gonzalez, great. If not, he is a rotation place holder. Same with Shields, who's seemingly a sunk cost at this point but might have some value yet. Let Tilson, Lawrie/Garcia (DH) play and see what you can get out of those latter two or move on. Right now, Saladino's going to have 2-3 months of regular at-bats at second until Moncada's deemed ready. I think that is a little off-base/rush to a conclusion but one thing you brought up is something I've been curious about. With this being Moncada, do we keep Abreu around for a little while to at least help ease the transition? I'm not someone who wants to keep Abreu. His struggles in the early season were/are crippling in my opinion when you have a boom/bust type team like we have had. I think he is on the decline, I think his secondary statistics show this. People may like seeing the 25-30 bombs and 100 rbi's but the rest of his measurables tell a different story. In saying that, if you view his expected production, his potential upside and his cultural relationship to Moncada to be a positive or necessity for the Moncada investment - then keep him. Edited December 6, 2016 by HeGone7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Rick Hahn is still the General Manager, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Caulfield is the undisputed king of the tl;dr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:20 PM) Office Space, the gift that keeps on giving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:06 PM) I know you're going to tempted to argue that Moncada and Collins injected into the line-up makes you competitive the second half of 2017. Or that Burdi is ready to be a big league closer. BUT...No. It doesn't. We have no real CFer, DH or ace any longer. Do the prudent thing and let Moncada, Collins, Burdi, Kopech and Basabe develop. Be patient, for once. It's extremely important to determine if Collins can stick as a catcher...rather than rushing his bat as a DH/1B and trying to preserve his health. The premium value comes from his being able to catch decently AND be a plus hitter at that position. Then you have 3 solutions up the middle, and a possible 4th in Basabe for CF in 2019. Look to trade Eaton, Q, Nate Jones and Melky at their peak respective values with the White Sox if the right deals come along. Don't accept anything less than fair deals, obviously. Hold Abreu and see the chemistry with him and Moncada until at least July. He seems to be a good mentor, from all we know about him. Jose, if he has another first half like he ended 2016, becomes a much more coveted piece. His value is still down, now. It's also easier to imagine him sticking around, on the other hand. Frazier and Robertson, hold and wait on a rebound...look to trade in July, decide if Frazier might be a long-term stabilizing force to keep in the fold, do you get more back immediately from a trade or go through the QO process? Extend? Depends on what pieces are left from Q/Eaton. Does Trey M. make any progress? But Robertson goes with the first/best offer. Fulmer is the obvious choice for the rotation spot at the moment. Do not rush Burdi. Give him at least one full season in the minors starting. Same with Kopech, and Hansen, for that matter. If someone blows you away with an offer for Gonzalez, great. If not, he is a rotation place holder. Same with Shields, who's seemingly a sunk cost at this point but might have some value yet. Let Tilson, Lawrie/Garcia (DH) play and see what you can get out of those latter two or move on. Right now, Saladino's going to have 2-3 months of regular at-bats at second until Moncada's deemed ready. Now that they made the Sale trade, Caulfield, there's no reason to keep anybody. We're not a contender, even one of those "if everybody has a career year" type teams. Trade Melky, Avi, Frazier, Lawrie, Abreu, Robertson, Q as soon as you can. Try to actually win some of the trades. Sale is gone, which makes the Sox a last place team in the Central. It's time to clean house totally and hope the prospects work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 We were almost a last place team with him. Tired of the same BS. Lets try something new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 6, 2016 Author Share Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 02:12 PM) He contradicts himself unless Abreu is supposed to go to Charlotte. Keep Moncada in the minors but have him develop a bond with Abreu. And how long do you think they'll keep him in Charlotte? They don't spend six or seven weeks together in spring training? Last year, I remember reading story after story about how Rollins was going to mentor Anderson. I didn't see that Anderson and Rollins would be playing together at Charlotte, either. Abreu is the biggest Cuban/Cuban-American star, after the death of Jose Fernandez. At the very least, he's right up there with Cespedes (and with Puig's descent). And Moncada is supposed to be the next great Cuban star, with comps stretching from ARod to a poor man's Mike Trout. Who would be better for him to be around? Plus, we now have a manager the Latin American players will be more comfortable and be able to communicate more openly with. They're really going to trade him for some B level Rockie when they just brought in Moncada? And if they deal Abreu, Cabrera, Eaton and Frazier...who are the fans going to want to come out and see? Holding onto Abreu at least until July makes sense unless another team just bowls you over. Edited December 6, 2016 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:13 PM) And if they deal Abreu, Cabrera, Eaton and Frazier...who are the fans going to want to come out and see? Holding onto Abreu at least until July makes sense unless another team just bowls you over. I don't think the fans factor into this. There's no indication the Sox are stopping trading. There's been not one media report that this trade was made with 2017 in mind. It's pretty obvious a firesale is coming until we hear this trade was it and the Sox are shopping for 2 veteran starting pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 6, 2016 Author Share Posted December 6, 2016 http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/red-...ech-two-others/ Besides, Baseball America is already projecting Moncada having a decent chance to break camp with the Sox. It's probably 50/50 he's the Opening Day 2B and leadoff or second place hitter (if Eaton's still around). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 6, 2016 Author Share Posted December 6, 2016 QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:18 PM) I don't think the fans factor into this. There's no indication the Sox are stopping trading. There's been not one media report that this trade was made with 2017 in mind. It's pretty obvious a firesale is coming until we hear this trade was it and the Sox are shopping for 2 veteran starting pitchers. Except firesale connotes having to trade pieces for 50-75 cents on the dollar, like the Padres. The White Sox won't do that for anyone...with the possible exceptions of Shields, Robertson and Cabrera. Financially, they're not going to be forced into that position as the payroll keeps getting cut with each corresponding move or domino falling into place, so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:13 PM) And how long do you think they'll keep him in Charlotte? They don't spend six or seven weeks together in spring training? Last year, I remember reading story after story about how Rollins was going to mentor Anderson. I didn't see that Anderson and Rollins would be playing together at Charlotte, either. Abreu is the biggest Cuban/Cuban-American star, after the death of Jose Fernandez. At the very least, he's right up there with Cespedes (and with Puig's descent). And Moncada is supposed to be the next great Cuban star, with comps stretching from ARod to a poor man's Mike Trout. Who would be better for him to be around? Plus, we now have a manager the Latin American players will be more comfortable and be able to communicate more openly with. They're really going to trade him for some B level Rockie when they just brought in Moncada? And if they deal Abreu, Cabrera, Eaton and Frazier...who are the fans going to want to come out and see? Holding onto Abreu at least until July makes sense unless another team just bowls you over. Dude, the first trade was made. There is really no way you can predict any of what you are talking about until the offseason is over. And cashing in on Abreu being the biggest Cuban star? come on man, nobody cares. If people really cared to come out to see Abreu Cabrera Frazier and Eaton than they would have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:20 PM) What is this cheap imposter? It's supposed to say "Loose One Turn". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 6, 2016 Author Share Posted December 6, 2016 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:22 PM) Dude, the first trade was made. There is really no way you can predict any of what you are talking about until the offseason is over. And cashing in on Abreu being the biggest Cuban star? come on man, nobody cares. If people really cared to come out to see Abreu Cabrera Frazier and Eaton than they would have Except the White Sox organization has always cared about marketing, attendance revenues, perception...you honestly believe all that institutional memory can disappear so quickly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 The 2018 free agent period has potential to be bananas, No reason we shouldn't target that IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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