Ok, so if Tucker is the centerpiece, what deal do you guys take? Because if he is the centerpiece for me, I want another 3-4 guys with some really nice ceilings.

 

Otherwise, I want a guy that has shown something in AA/AAA.

 

If teams won't do that now, fine. I wait. And test them again in July. Because it is not me that has the pressure to compete this year. It's them. And maybe in July, I've seen that Tucker has taken the next step and it requires less projection from me. Maybe Tucker has taken a step back or injured himself and I can save myself from making a mistake I may have made back in the offseason.

 

You guys are some really poor poker players though if you're just willing to give in after 5 days and accept some mediocre package because Luhnow or Bridich waited your giddy ass out after the Winter Meetings.

Ok, so if Tucker is the centerpiece, what deal do you guys take? Because if he is the centerpiece for me, I want another 3-4 guys with some really nice ceilings.

 

Otherwise, I want a guy that has shown something in AA/AAA.

 

If teams won't do that now, fine. I wait. And test them again in July. Because it is not me that has the pressure to compete this year. It's them. And maybe in July, I've seen that Tucker has taken the next step and it requires less projection from me. Maybe Tucker has taken a step back or injured himself and I can save myself from making a mistake I may have made back in the offseason.

 

You guys are some really poor poker players though if you're just willing to give in after 5 days and accept some mediocre package because Luhnow or Bridich waited your giddy ass out after the Winter Meetings.

 

I think I may have missed something but I was mostly referring to a Martes/Tucker/Musgrove package, but also I am comfortable and happy with a Martes/Tucker/Reed/Jake Rodgers or something toward end.

Has nothing to do with leverage with a rebuild. Has much more to do with interest level and immediate need for specific players across all the teams. See the Chapman and Eaton deals. You need a team to do what KW used to do. Get tunnel vision and need "his guy" and do whatever it takes to make it happen.

 

Good old Tunnel Vision Kenny. That was so infuriating.

 

With the asterisk of never 100% knowing whether reported progressions toward a trade jive with actual reality, that seemed such a pattern with KW. He was going to get his guy. Period. And his counterpart just sat back and let Kenny add another piece and another piece until Kenny "wore them down."

 

Who is that guy now? We've got to find him. But that sure seemed to be the book on Kenny -- throw the young slugger soft stuff low and away; identify Kenny's must have target and just sit back and smile.

I'd do Kyle Tucker, Teoscar Hernandez, Franklin Perez and A.J. Reed for Quintana no sweat.

 

I think I've already made my case for Kyle Tucker. Teoscar Hernandez is a stupendous athlete with colossal defensive upside and some real pop but has a bit of a strikeout problem. Reed crashed and burned in his big league debut and the signings of Gurriel and Beltran have sunk him even further down the depth chart. Astros aren't going to waste big league PA's this year hoping he develops unless they decimated by injuries. I'm not a big fan of Reed but he's intriguing as a buy-low candidate. Hernandez and Reed are two guys the Sox would absolutely love to give full season opportunities in a rebuilding year. Franklin Perez is a crazy high upside 19 year old RHP.

I think I may have missed something but I was mostly referring to a Martes/Tucker/Musgrove package, but also I am comfortable and happy with a Martes/Tucker/Reed/Jake Rodgers or something toward end.

Yeah, I was replying to the folks who are willing to make Tucker the centerpiece, not Martes along with Tucker as a complimentary piece.

Good old Tunnel Vision Kenny. That was so infuriating.

 

With the asterisk of never 100% knowing whether reported progressions toward a trade jive with actual reality, that seemed such a pattern with KW. He was going to get his guy. Period. And his counterpart just sat back and let Kenny add another piece and another piece until Kenny "wore them down."

 

Who is that guy now? We've got to find him. But that sure seemed to be the book on Kenny -- throw the young slugger soft stuff low and away; identify Kenny's must have target and just sit back and smile.

 

KW's strategy worked a helluva lot more often before he ran out of guys to trade, whether they panned out or not.

Yeah, I was replying to the folks who are willing to make Tucker the centerpiece, not Martes along with Tucker as a complimentary piece.

 

I'm not sure which poster(s) you're referring to, but Tucker would be a co-headliner coming back to us with Martes or Whitley. Not the only "centerpiece". I was simply stating the case for taking him on as one of the main pieces given that you are turned off by a prospects' age/inexperience in a deal for Q.

 

K Tucker

Martes or Whitley

Reed or Teoscar

Stubbs or one of their high ceiling 16-18 year old Latin signings

Edited December 13, 20169 yr by Ro Da Don

I'd do Kyle Tucker, Teoscar Hernandez, Franklin Perez and A.J. Reed for Quintana no sweat.

 

I think I've already made my case for Kyle Tucker. Teoscar Hernandez is a stupendous athlete with colossal defensive upside and some real pop but has a bit of a strikeout problem. Reed crashed and burned in his big league debut and the signings of Gurriel and Beltran have sunk him even further down the depth chart. Astros aren't going to waste big league PA's this year hoping he develops unless they decimated by injuries. I'm not a big fan of Reed but he's intriguing as a buy-low candidate. Hernandez and Reed are two guys the Sox would absolutely love to give full season opportunities in a rebuilding year. Franklin Perez is a crazy high upside 19 year old RHP.

Hernnandez sounds like about 10 other guys we've drafted/signed that have gone on to do absolutely nothing.

 

Perez certainly sounds intriguing.

Hernnandez sounds like about 10 other guys we've drafted/signed that have gone on to do absolutely nothing.

 

Perez certainly sounds intriguing.

Teoscar has his faults but he's made it to the show despite them. For a team punting a season he's the exact type you'd like to plug in for 600 PA and see what he's really got. Better than another trip the Avisail Garcia road. Even if he cannot hit well enough his defense will be a nice little boost as the Sox bring some of their big time arms to the MLB squad.

Teoscar has his faults but he's made it to the show despite them. For a team punting a season he's the exact type you'd like to plug in for 600 PA and see what he's really got. Better than another trip the Avisail Garcia road. Even if he cannot hit well enough his defense will be a nice little boost as the Sox bring some of their big time arms to the MLB squad.

Ahh, the mlb reports didn't speak highly of his defense.

I'm not sure which poster(s) you're referring to, but Tucker would be a co-headliner coming back to us with Martes or Whitley. Not the only "centerpiece". I was simply stating the case for taking him on as one of the main pieces given that you are turned off by a prospects' age/inexperience in a deal for Q.

 

K Tucker

Martes or Whitley

Reed or Teoscar

Stubbs or one of their high ceiling 16-18 year old Latin signings

I've said all along I'd like Tucker as a secondary piece. I was under the impression you'd take him as your headliner.

 

I don't love Martes, but I trust the Sox SP acquisitions. If they want him, I assume they see something they can work with.

Any Astros deal has to include Martes & Tucker as the headliners. After that, we'd need one more top 100 type, preferably a bat like Reed or Fisher. I'd also try to get Stubbs included by adding Jennings. IMO, that's a very fair deal for both sides and one that doesn't really compromise Houston's ability to compete in any way next year.

Is it Wednesday yet?

Honestly, winter meetings should be an all week thing from Sunday to Sunday.

 

I was talking with a friend about the winter meetings and I couldn't agree more. I think they should do it Monday to Saturday.

Is it Wednesday yet?

What happens wednesday??

KW's strategy worked a helluva lot more often before he ran out of guys to trade, whether they panned out or not.

 

Hmm, I don't really agree. Sure, some of his targets were justly targeted. But it was the targeting itself -- the intensity of the targeting (ugh, me must have player x) -- that got him in trouble. Targeting Swisher was a good example -- it was so widely telegraphed and it was Gio AND de los Santos AND Sweeney. He'd always toss in that extra prospect to get the deal done. Targeting Samardzija was another example. Billy Beane just feasted on Kenny. Point is, it wasn't it just a harmless quirk, it led to continual overpayments and, ultimately, an environment that devalued our own prospects and contributed to a crappy farm system that is FINALLY being righted.

The argument always made was that almost none of our prospects came back to bite us.

 

The problem with that line of argument is that it led to a continual erosion of depth, to the point where we never had the right pieces after that 1998-2001 cycle to get someone like Miguel Cabrera via trade. We were always on the short end.

 

The one exception was Reed/Morse/Olivo for Freddy Garcia.

 

But the big trades, such as Todd Ritchie, Javy Vazquez, Nick Swisher, Edwin Jackson...we almost always seemed to come out on the losing end, one way or the other.

 

Not to mention the targeting of "second tier" players like Keppinger, Teahen or Bonifacio, where it was hoped they could provide more than they were actually capable of producing on paper. Williams always excelled in the "under the radar" deals for guys like Loaiza, Contrera, Jenks, Santos, Alexei Ramirez, Bochard/Thornton, Carlos Quentin for Carter, Gavin Floyd, DeAza, finally Quintana. Finding all those guys, unfortunately, was JUST ENOUGH to keep the White Sox competitive, and kept us drafting 12-18 instead of high in the first round or late (with a playoff appearance).

 

 

Hmm, I don't really agree. Sure, some of his targets were justly targeted. But it was the targeting itself -- the intensity of the targeting (ugh, me must have player x) -- that got him in trouble. Targeting Swisher was a good example -- it was so widely telegraphed and it was Gio AND de los Santos AND Sweeney. He'd always toss in that extra prospect to get the deal done. Targeting Samardzija was another example. Billy Beane just feasted on Kenny. Point is, it wasn't it just a harmless quirk, it led to continual overpayments and, ultimately, an environment that devalued our own prospects and contributed to a crappy farm system that is FINALLY being righted.

 

I agree, we agree.

Hmm, I don't really agree. Sure, some of his targets were justly targeted. But it was the targeting itself -- the intensity of the targeting (ugh, me must have player x) -- that got him in trouble. Targeting Swisher was a good example -- it was so widely telegraphed and it was Gio AND de los Santos AND Sweeney. He'd always toss in that extra prospect to get the deal done. Targeting Samardzija was another example. Billy Beane just feasted on Kenny. Point is, it wasn't it just a harmless quirk, it led to continual overpayments and, ultimately, an environment that devalued our own prospects and contributed to a crappy farm system that is FINALLY being righted.

 

He traded Keith Foulke for Billy Koch too. Not sure what the point of that one was. Why not just trade him for prospects?

What happens wednesday??

It's a reference to last winter when some Sox trades fell on Wednesday's.

Edited December 13, 20169 yr by BlackSox13

Starting to wonder if the Nat's get desperate and offer up Ross/Robles/Severino for Q. Trading Ross doesn't seem to make sense until factoring in Q will likely pitch over 200 innings and put up better numbers than Ross which is why I think a contender like the Nat's might consider pulling the trigger. It's probably a reach but the best reach I can come up with so early on a cold morning.

Saw on mlbtraderumors that the Mariners are looking for pitching. Didn't really mention any thing specific and not sure if they are willing to give up what it takes to get Q though. They do have some very interesting OF prospects tho...Kyle Lewis who went #11 overall in this past draft and Tyler O'neill who hit a coll .293/.374/.508 with 24 HR's as a 20/21 year old in AA. Like I said, no idea if a deal is even possible/realistic but this thread could use some new hope of a deal lol.

Saw on mlbtraderumors that the Mariners are looking for pitching. Didn't really mention any thing specific and not sure if they are willing to give up what it takes to get Q though. They do have some very interesting OF prospects tho...Kyle Lewis who went #11 overall in this past draft and Tyler O'neill who hit a coll .293/.374/.508 with 24 HR's as a 20/21 year old in AA. Like I said, no idea if a deal is even possible/realistic but this thread could use some new hope of a deal lol.

 

Seattle doesn't have the farm system to pull off a Q trade. Lewis had a major knee injury as well. I like a couple of their players, but they don't have the elite prospects it would take.

Robertson or Miguel Gonzalez would be the guys that they can afford prospect wise.

Edited December 13, 20169 yr by GermanSoxFan

He traded Keith Foulke for Billy Koch too. Not sure what the point of that one was. Why not just trade him for prospects?

He traded Joe Borchard for Matt Thornton too.

Seattle doesn't have the farm system to pull off a Q trade. Lewis had a major knee injury as well. I like a couple of their players, but they don't have the elite prospects it would take.

Robertson or Miguel Gonzalez would be the guys that they can afford prospect wise.

They could do a Gonzalez + Abreu trade.