Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[Dick Allen]

I have a hard time believing we were ever actually close for Cabrera. Our rumored deal was sooooooooo much worse than Detroits. I think Marlins just used us, and Kenny was more than happy to act like he landed a big fish (PUN INTENDED!)

Here is an article on the Cabrera offers at the time. Except for the Dodgers, the Fish had no chance to win the trade. The White Sox supposed offer ultimately woulld have been one of the better ones. Scary trading stars.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/2012/10/26/3559302...de-world-series

[Boopa1219]

As I recall, the Sox lost out on Cabrera because they wouldn't take Dontrell Willis.

 

I remember those rumors and going online everyday to see what was happening

[Chisoxfn]

What was the rumored deal again? For some reason, I don't remember it at all.

Tigers robbed them because they gave up no one that ever did anything for the Fish. If I recall, it was Andrew Miller (who eventually turned dominate, but long after he left the Fish) and Cameron Maybin (who has bounced all over the place, but never was anything worth while). Don't remember who the other pieces were. We didn't want Dontrell which from what I always heard at the time, was what drove the Fish to take their offer. I don't recall who / what we were dangling. It is the danger in these type of deals though, cause the Marlins were totally fleeced (in hindsight). Like that deal was an absurd steal.

[Chisoxfn]

I think our offer involved Gio Gonzalez and Josh Fields plus others. While Fields clearly busted, hindsight would tell you the Marlins would have been far better off taking the White Sox offer because Gio was far more valuable then anything they ever benefited from (and it wasn't like they got anything when they flipped Andrew Miller).

[bmags]

Yeah wow, that's hilarious that our offer ended up better but at the time they got two top ten prospects and we were dangling Fields and Gio.

[Southwest Sider]

I think our offer involved Gio Gonzalez and Josh Fields plus others. While Fields clearly busted, hindsight would tell you the Marlins would have been far better off taking the White Sox offer because Gio was far more valuable then anything they ever benefited from (and it wasn't like they got anything when they flipped Andrew Miller).

 

The White Sox are legitimately in the mix for Miguel Cabrera, but many stars would have to align for it to get done. Suitors with better prospects would have to balk, and the Sox would have to part with Josh Fields and Gio Gonzalez. Kenny Williams might even have to cash Jon Garland in and turn around and flip that prospect in a Cabrera deal. Regardless, it's clear that Williams is once again thinking big.

 

 

Damnit I still wish to this day that KW found a way to pull that trade off.

[Dick Allen]

I am pretty sure at the end it was down to the White Sox and Tigers and the Tigers won out. KW made his comment of the trade putting them in a better position to compete with the White Sox. The Sox did win the division that season, but that would have been a franchise changer.

 

Edit I read the Angels were in it until the end for Ervin Santana and Joe Saunders. But as crazy as it sounds, it may have been a blessing they didn't make the trade because the wound up trading for Texiera who left as a free agent and with the comp pick for him they drafted Trout.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

Damnit I still wish to this day that KW found a way to pull that trade off.

 

For about an hour, soxtalk thought we had him.

 

C - AJP

1b - Konerko/Cabrera

2b - Alexei

SS - Uribe (assume no Cabrera trade)

3b - Cabrera/Crede

RF - TCQ

CF - ?

LF - JD

DH - Thome/Cabrera

 

One of the more respectable lineups

 

 

 

[oldsox]

he's paid fairly enough to take it. That said, no, he didn't deserve it. He is a scapegoat for the orgs failure. He busted his ass to come back ahead of schedule from the injury. It's not his fault that when he was acquired the FO apparently didn't realize he has zero pitch recognition skills or ability to track a baseball in flight.

Slight exaggeration here. He has his flaws, but is still a legitimate MLBPer, just not as good as we all had hoped when we got him. Too many posters here treat him as if he were some hobo off the street corner.

[Jake]

Especially at a fan event, I don't think it's appropriate to boo a player who has done nothing wrong except play badly. The same thing with Dunn. Just because these guys make a lot of money, that doesn't mean they aren't human beings who deserve to be treated right. If you're mad about the bad play and the big money, boo the management.

[Nokona]

For about an hour, soxtalk thought we had him.

 

C - AJP

1b - Konerko/Cabrera

2b - Alexei

SS - Uribe (assume no Cabrera trade)

3b - Cabrera/Crede

RF - TCQ

CF - ?

LF - JD

DH - Thome/Cabrera

 

One of the more respectable lineups

 

That would have been a helluva team

[chitownsportsfan]

Slight exaggeration here. He has his flaws, but is still a legitimate MLBPer, just not as good as we all had hoped when we got him. Too many posters here treat him as if he were some hobo off the street corner.

 

He's a negative WAR player. It's pretty obvious just watching the games you don't have to look at Fangraphs or B-Ref. Unless he magically improves his defense or walk rate he's going to Japan like Viciedo.

[Bob Sacamano]

Slight exaggeration here. He has his flaws, but is still a legitimate MLBPer, just not as good as we all had hoped when we got him. Too many posters here treat him as if he were some hobo off the street corner.

 

Can't hit and can't field. How is he a legit MLB player?

[caulfield12]

You have to be able to put up a 750-775 ops or be a LH platoon bat/DH with exaggerated splits against opposite side to be a useful piece.

 

Viciedo and Avi have a lot in common, other than Avi having much better acceleration after the first 2-3 steps. Both big outfield arms, but erratic/inconsistent. Lots of flashes, but no consistency. It feels like scouts just fell in love with Avi's foot speed (for that size) but forgot about the defensive routes, baserunning foibles and couldn't believe someone that size could put up lesser XB power numbers than Adam Eaton.

[GreenSox]

Slight exaggeration here. He has his flaws, but is still a legitimate MLBPer, just not as good as we all had hoped when we got him. Too many posters here treat him as if he were some hobo off the street corner.

Well by the grace of a sell-off, he's got another year to show the world he can hit. I've always had a lot of patience with him (although it's about dried up) because he actually walks...that suggests that there is at least kernel of pitch recognition in his skill-set.

 

That's what this year is for anyway. the Sox will try out their ML ready prospects and see who is a keeper: Tilson, Coats, Avi, Davidson, Saladino, Sanchez and others should all get lots of playing time. Maybe there are a couple of keepers in the lot.

And they'll do the same with all of those (what seem to be) AAAA relievers they loaded up on the last couple of years...a few got several outings last year.

Edited December 14, 2016 by GreenSox

[caulfield12]

Wouldn't be a surprise to see Engel or May up there as well...especially if Tilson is reinjured or can't hit well enough to hold down the position, and/or if Melky Cabrera is finally dealt.

 

Nothing would be totally shocking, not even Courtney Hawkins getting at-bats if he somehow manages to pull off a hot streak in the minors.

Edited December 14, 2016 by caulfield12

[GreenSox]

Wouldn't be a surprise to see Engel or May up there as well...especially if Tilson is reinjured or can't hit well enough to hold down the position, and/or if Melky Cabrera is finally dealt.

 

Nothing would be totally shocking, not even Courtney Hawkins getting at-bats if he somehow manages to pull off a hot streak in the minors.

Absolutely.

Open audition time.

[hi8is]

It's Wednesday

[Jerksticks]

Absolutely.

Open audition time.

Exactly. And i think you two are hitting on a key point- our outfield prospects, outside of our pitching prospects, represents the true depth of our system.

 

While the names aren't sexy first rounders for the most part, there are a ton of sleeper potential Allstars in our system. Tilson, Engel, Call, Basabe & Fisher are worthy of excitement. Each has some super plus tools that with a lil luck the Sox hit a homerun. The next tier has more limited potential but you never know: Avi, Coats, Hawkins, May.

 

That's why I think it's Bregman or bust with Houston. Bregman, TA, Moncada & Abreu is pure beast. 3 MVP candidates maybe.

 

Elite Catcher or 3B for Q. No more outfielders. No Tucker #f***Tuck

[caulfield12]

The only problem is that the only one of those outfielders who can be projected to (if they hit their ceiling) be a 3-4+ WAR player would be Basabe.

 

It seems all of those other outfielders have limitations in one area or another...to the point where they need to get back at least one more Robles-esque player to make many feel extremely confident about the future of the outfield.

Edited December 14, 2016 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

The only problem is that the only one of those outfielders who can be projected to (if they hit their ceiling) be a 3-4+ WAR player would be Basabe.

 

It seems all of those other outfielders have limitations in one area or another...to the point where they need to get back at least one more Robles-esque player to make many feel extremely confident about the future of the outfield.

It's way too early to assign a ceiling to guys like Call & Fisher. They may not have flashy tools, but other organizations have had great success drafting pure baseball guys like them and ending up with 3-4 WAR type players. We also have some very toolsy OF prospects in Adolfo, Rodriguez, & Schnurbusch. While they each have huge bust potential, all those guys have big ceilings. Right now, Basabe probably has the best mix of floor & ceiling of our OF prospects in the low minors, but let's not undersell the talent level of these guys. Having said that, none of these guys prevent us from adding more OF prospects, especially elite ones like Justin Tucker.

[username]

It's way too early to assign a ceiling to guys like Call & Fisher. They may not have flashy tools, but other organizations have had great success drafting pure baseball guys like them and ending up with 3-4 WAR type players. We also have some very toolsy OF prospects in Adolfo, Rodriguez, & Schnurbusch. While they each have huge bust potential, all those guys have big ceilings. Right now, Basabe probably has the best mix of floor & ceiling of our OF prospects in the low minors, but let's not undersell the talent level of these guys. Having said that, none of these guys prevent us from adding more OF prospects, especially elite ones like Justin Tucker.

 

Totally agreed. A lot of people think Fisher might have been the best pure hitter in the 2016 draft. Watch some video of his swing if you don't believe me. And Call is either a center fielder or plus fielding corner guy and was pretty dynamic with the bat in his debut.

[HeGone7]

Exactly. And i think you two are hitting on a key point- our outfield prospects, outside of our pitching prospects, represents the true depth of our system.

 

While the names aren't sexy first rounders for the most part, there are a ton of sleeper potential Allstars in our system. Tilson, Engel, Call, Basabe & Fisher are worthy of excitement. Each has some super plus tools that with a lil luck the Sox hit a homerun. The next tier has more limited potential but you never know: Avi, Coats, Hawkins, May.

 

That's why I think it's Bregman or bust with Houston. Bregman, TA, Moncada & Abreu is pure beast. 3 MVP candidates maybe.

 

Elite Catcher or 3B for Q. No more outfielders. No Tucker #f***Tuck

 

I'd love Bregman. Doesn't appear to be happening.

 

Abreu I can't imagine as being in the White Sox plans. Not is he or TA an MVP candidate (not even maybe).

 

I'll wager none of the five outfielders you mentioned are ever allstars.

 

Temper your expectations. You're excited, a lot of us are. But you're talking extreme ceilings with some guys and non-existant ones with others. I'd say, just to be fair, that in some cases it is too early to tell on guys like Call but we need to get real. Most of these guys are long shots at best.

 

Tucker is a good looking prospect. Far better than everyone you mentioned. He may not be Bregman but he is easily Basabe and more.

Edited December 14, 2016 by HeGone7

[GreenSox]

It's way too early to assign a ceiling to guys like Call & Fisher. They may not have flashy tools, but other organizations have had great success drafting pure baseball guys like them and ending up with 3-4 WAR type players.

Or even 2-3 WAR.

Other than 1 more bat, that was what was lacking the last few years. The Sox just weren't solid around the diamond and on the mound. Some 2-3 War volume, instead of 1-neg 1 WAR volume, who have made the difference. Now they needed a lot of that volume.

That said, they will need some all star level talent; hopefully that can be developed and attempted via some of the silly-stuff we've seen the last decade.

 

As for Q, I think the Astros will come back to the table. The Sox negotiated down from Devers to 2 other players; similarly, they wanted Musgrove and Martes; just take one and 2 lesser players, plus Tucker (who should be a must).

I also wonder about Seattle...they sure could use Q.

Edited December 14, 2016 by GreenSox

[TheFutureIsNear]

Exactly. And i think you two are hitting on a key point- our outfield prospects, outside of our pitching prospects, represents the true depth of our system.

 

While the names aren't sexy first rounders for the most part, there are a ton of sleeper potential Allstars in our system. Tilson, Engel, Call, Basabe & Fisher are worthy of excitement. Each has some super plus tools that with a lil luck the Sox hit a homerun. The next tier has more limited potential but you never know: Avi, Coats, Hawkins, May.

 

That's why I think it's Bregman or bust with Houston. Bregman, TA, Moncada & Abreu is pure beast. 3 MVP candidates maybe.

 

Elite Catcher or 3B for Q. No more outfielders. No Tucker #f***Tuck

 

 

Lol we are set with OF prospects?? What the hell are you smoking and where do I get it? Aside from Basabe (who is a mere projection at this point), every organization has the type of prospects like Tilson, Engel, and Call/Fisher. If we manage to get a 4th OF'er and a platoon player out of those 4 we should be happy if you're being realistic about it. How about just get as much talent as possible? And Tucker just so happens to be really talented.