White Sox acquire Joakim Soria, Luis Avilan and $3 Million

[Eminor3rd]

Greg, stop. I don't need to ask Caulfield or any dumbass Kansas City goobers s***. You are acting like a clown. I know, I should be used to it by now but I'm trying to catch up on an informative thread and you've hijacked it with nonsense.

 

Let's pump the brakes here, man.

[ptatc]

Arguing over if he had a good or bad season is pretty irrelevant . Sox got 2 RP's they either flip (both of them) or keep (Avilan) for a song and got cash. There's nothing to dislike about this deal. 2 major league bullpen arms who not only solidify our bullpen needs and since relievers are a hot commodity at the deadline Sox put themselves in a position to add more prospects. And what did they give up ? A guy who was just exposed to the Rule 5 draft and didn't get picked by any team. 2 major leaguers who could be on the hot list at the deadline and replace parts traded at the deadline last year for a guy the Sox basically had no use for.

 

This might be the best trade Hahn ever made that on the surface appears to be a nothing trade.

It's the classic results vs. stats discussion. His results were bad (gave up leads and lead to losses). The peripherals overall were good so they predict he could be better.

 

I agree with you. He's worth the chance especially because of the player they received from LA. Anytime you trade an unproven position player for 2 MLB pitchers, it's going to end up a good trade.

[Eminor3rd]

Arguing over if he had a good or bad season is pretty irrelevant . Sox got 2 RP's they either flip (both of them) or keep (Avilan) for a song and got cash. There's nothing to dislike about this deal. 2 major league bullpen arms who not only solidify our bullpen needs and since relievers are a hot commodity at the deadline Sox put themselves in a position to add more prospects. And what did they give up ? A guy who was just exposed to the Rule 5 draft and didn't get picked by any team. 2 major leaguers who could be on the hot list at the deadline and replace parts traded at the deadline last year for a guy the Sox basically had no use for.

 

This might be the best trade Hahn ever made that on the surface appears to be a nothing trade.

 

Exactly. Soria can both (1) have had a bad season in terms of results and (2) have shown a lot of reasons to believe he'll have a decent season going forward. The latter is enough reason to to be interested in getting him, and the former is why the opportunity presented itself.

[Dam8610]

Let's put it this way.

 

He had three clean 8th inning leads in July and August (3-2, 8-7 and 4-3) and blew all of those key games.

 

The most egregious example, though, was August 15th vs. the A's.

Entered the 8th with a clean 8-4 lead (not even a save situation), managed to give up 4 runs and only recorded one out. That was the killer game in their season (think Thome vs. Matt Thornton). Lost 10-8.

 

From July 8th through August 15th (15 outings), he had:

 

1 Loss (started the 9th clean with a 1-1 tie against BALT)

3 Blown Saves

1 Blown 4 run lead

5 Holds

 

So he blew the Royals 2017 season AND has the peripherals to suggest a bounceback year that could cause him to be a good flip candidate to get more prospects for the rebuild? Sounds great to me.

[Dick Allen]

So he blew the Royals 2017 season AND has the peripherals to suggest a bounceback year that could cause him to be a good flip candidate to get more prospects for the rebuild? Sounds great to me.

This peripherals argument is weak. I look at his peripherals in 2016 and they suggest he is well on the road to done. Now his peripherals, like his traditional stats improve and suddenly he is a good flip candidate.

 

The trade was fine, but lets not talk about him being a good flip candidate. A good flip candidate gets you something interesting back. This guy will get you maybe, if all goes well, a 26 year old in A ball who throws 100 and walks about 1 an inning.

[Eminor3rd]

This peripherals argument is weak. I look at his peripherals in 2016 and they suggest he is well on the road to done. Now his peripherals, like his traditional stats improve and suddenly he is a good flip candidate.

 

The trade was fine, but lets not talk about him being a good flip candidate. A good flip candidate gets you something interesting back. This guy will get you maybe, if all goes well, a 26 year old in A ball who throws 100 and walks about 1 an inning.

 

How do you figure ANY of that? His peripherals in 2016 suggest he had bad homerun luck, but everything else was fine. There might be something else going on that's important, but if so, it certainly can't be gleaned from his peripherals. What are you referring to?

 

And if he puts together a strong first half, given his affordable salary and team option, he'll absolutely bring back a significant return.

[username]

He also still has good stuff and is throwing as hard as he ever has. We got a decent prospect for Dan Jennings lol, this is a guy who strikes out 9-10+ per 9 with closing pedigree and reasonable money.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Username

[wrathofhahn]

How do you figure ANY of that? His peripherals in 2016 suggest he had bad homerun luck, but everything else was fine. There might be something else going on that's important, but if so, it certainly can't be gleaned from his peripherals. What are you referring to?

 

And if he puts together a strong first half, given his affordable salary and team option, he'll absolutely bring back a significant return.

 

Agreed especially if he proves he can still close. There are always teams in need of bullpen help at the deadline.

 

Plus at that point he'll be even more attractive from a salary point bc 2/3 of his contract will have been paid by the sox.

[iamshack]

Can we change the title to reflect the proper amount of cash we are receiving back? Sorry, it’s bugging me.

 

Not sure how anyone can complain about netting two relievers for well-below market rate, for a guy that was blocked by Yoan Moncada.

 

I get that some people want to be devil’s advocates, and others like to constantly troll the entire site, but any reasoned analysis of this deal shows that this was an outstanding trade for the White Sox to make.

 

Even if Soria just bombs...you essentially paid $16m or so and Jake Peter for a quality LOOGY we control for two years. We have the money to spend.

 

More likely scenario, we add two reasonably solid bp arms, allowing these kids to actually get a little taste of winning, and have options at the trade deadline should someone actually be willing to move a prospect we like.

 

There was almost no conceivable reason to not make this trade if you are the White Sox.

Edited January 5, 2018 by iamshack

[Dick Allen]

How do you figure ANY of that? His peripherals in 2016 suggest he had bad homerun luck, but everything else was fine. There might be something else going on that's important, but if so, it certainly can't be gleaned from his peripherals. What are you referring to?

 

And if he puts together a strong first half, given his affordable salary and team option, he'll absolutely bring back a significant return.

I will say he will not get an organization top 20 guy back. Let's wager.

[bmags]

Can we change the title to reflect the proper amount of cash we are receiving back? Sorry, it’s bugging me.

 

Not sure how anyone can complain about netting two relievers for well-below market rate, for a guy that was blocked by Yoan Moncada.

 

I get that some people want to be devil’s advocates, and others like to constantly troll the entire site, but any reasoned analysis of this deal shows that this was an outstanding trade for the White Sox to make.

 

Even if Soria just bombs...you essentially paid $16m or so and Jake Peter for a quality LOOGY we control for two years. We have the money to spend.

 

More likely scenario, we add two reasonably solid bp arms, allowing these kids to actually get a little taste of winning, and have options at the trade deadline should someone actually be willing to move a prospect we like.

 

There was almost no conceivable reason to not make this trade if you are the White Sox.

 

Soria's 2019 is a team option I believe, so no real reason to even count on the books.

[Superstar Lamar]

This peripherals argument is weak. I look at his peripherals in 2016 and they suggest he is well on the road to done. Now his peripherals, like his traditional stats improve and suddenly he is a good flip candidate.

 

The trade was fine, but lets not talk about him being a good flip candidate. A good flip candidate gets you something interesting back. This guy will get you maybe, if all goes well, a 26 year old in A ball who throws 100 and walks about 1 an inning.

 

He will get you Jake Peters back.

 

Avilan will get you a little more than that.

 

That sounds like a fairly boring win situation to me, but a win nonetheless

[iamshack]

Soria's 2019 is a team option I believe, so no real reason to even count on the books.

I was counting Soria’s obligation of $10m and forecasting Avilan’s final arb year at like $3.7m. Just a guess but probably reasonable.

 

Edit: With the cash we received it is actually more like $13m.

Edited January 5, 2018 by iamshack

[Eminor3rd]

I will say he will not get an organization top 20 guy back. Let's wager.

 

lol ok

[Superstar Lamar]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox could move Soria by the end of spring training if they were willing to eat some of the remaining salary. I don't think that will happen and I wouldn't recommend it.

[Jose Abreu]

I will always remember that one game against Greg's Royals when if he had not pitched, his ERA would have been about over a run lower.

And that's one of many reasons ERA isn't a stat that should be thrown around as often as it is for relievers. One bad outing completely shatters it, and thus makes the pitcher seem a lot worse than he actually is. Sure, the stat is simply displaying an average, but said average doesn't really say much about how good a reliever is over time.

[Bob Sacamano]

And that's one of many reasons ERA isn't a stat that should be thrown around as often as it is for relievers. One bad outing completely shatters it, and thus makes the pitcher seem a lot worse than he actually is. Sure, the stat is simply displaying an average, but said average doesn't really say much about how good a reliever is over time.

 

Agreed.

[chitownsportsfan]

Good move. Hahn is doing a helluva job on trades lately.

[greg775]

Greg, stop. I don't need to ask Caulfield or any dumbass Kansas City goobers s***. You are acting like a clown. I know, I should be used to it by now but I'm trying to catch up on an informative thread and you've hijacked it with nonsense.

Geez. I'm just trying to add some context here. I live here and I'm just relaying the relief of Royals fans getting rid of Soria. He was the whipping boy of fans all last year (much like me despising Dunn that one year and me despising Rios, etc) and the talk shows are blazing. Do you guys check Twitter? Type in Soria's name for gosh sakes. I don't like being negative Nancy but I'm just passing along what I KNOW from living here. Soria was booed; Soria was despised; Soria was a bad clubhouse guy; Soria was the scapegoat for all the Royals' bullpen woes. Soria will make me consider whether to buy mlb.com this year cause he will drive me insane UNLESS as I pointed out Coop fixes him. I also said the other reliever we got sounds fine. Read my posts before you guys say I'm totally out of line.

Don't you want info passed on? We can't be Sox shills all the time for gosh sakes. Be reasonable. He's awful; Coop easily could fix him. He's so bad greg doesn't want to watch him pitch on mlb.com in a Sox uniform so shoot me. You guys over-react. Read my tweets; they are not that negative since I do bring up Coop.

 

So what you're saying is Greg is trashing Soria for having a really bad 2 weeks.

This goes both ways. Some of our players get trashed on here. Like take away two weeks of a hitter's 0 for 30 and the hitter is different. Look, I get it. Sox fans are excited cause he's new, the unknown. I'd love if Soria does what some relievers do and has a good year after a bad one.

[Bob Sacamano]

Geez. I'm just trying to add some context here. I live here and I'm just relaying the relief of Royals fans getting rid of Soria. He was the whipping boy of fans all last year (much like me despising Dunn that one year and me despising Rios, etc) and the talk shows are blazing. Do you guys check Twitter? Type in Soria's name for gosh sakes. I don't like being negative Nancy but I'm just passing along what I KNOW from living here. Soria was booed; Soria was despised; Soria was a bad clubhouse guy; Soria was the scapegoat for all the Royals' bullpen woes. Soria will make me consider whether to buy mlb.com this year cause he will drive me insane UNLESS as I pointed out Coop fixes him. I also said the other reliever we got sounds fine. Read my posts before you guys say I'm totally out of line.

Don't you want info passed on? We can't be Sox shills all the time for gosh sakes. Be reasonable. He's awful; Coop easily could fix him. He's so bad greg doesn't want to watch him pitch on mlb.com in a Sox uniform so shoot me. You guys over-react. Read my tweets; they are not that negative since I do bring up Coop.

 

 

This goes both ways. Some of our players get trashed on here. Like take away two weeks of a hitter's 0 for 30 and the hitter is different. Look, I get it. Sox fans are excited cause he's new, the unknown. I'd love if Soria does what some relievers do and has a good year after a bad one.

 

Any examples of this?

[Chicago White Sox]

Even if you were to separate the deal into signing Soria to 1/7 plus an option year and a second deal trading Peter for Avilan, it is still a good deal.

100% agree.

[bmags]

Greg I just want to know if you think Soria is better or worse than Al Albuquerque or Dylan Covey.

[Chicago White Sox]

This peripherals argument is weak. I look at his peripherals in 2016 and they suggest he is well on the road to done. Now his peripherals, like his traditional stats improve and suddenly he is a good flip candidate.

 

The trade was fine, but lets not talk about him being a good flip candidate. A good flip candidate gets you something interesting back. This guy will get you maybe, if all goes well, a 26 year old in A ball who throws 100 and walks about 1 an inning.

Lol what? There’s no guarantee he’ll be good next year and that we’ll get something solid for him, but the possibility most definitely exists and the peripherals & velocity support that.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Chicago White Sox

[Dick Allen]

Lol what? There’s no guarantee he’ll be good next year and that we’ll get something solid for him, but the possibility most definitely exists and the peripherals & velocity support that.

Teams don't give away useful valuable pieces to dump a contract that is reasonable with a guy whose peripherals suggest will be halfway valuable.

 

If Greg is pissed at the trade, I disagree with him. If he just thinks Soria sucks, he has a point. Anything you get from him is gravy, but chances are it won't be much.

Edited January 5, 2018 by Dick Allen

[Dunt]

Geez. I'm just trying to add some context here. I live here and I'm just relaying the relief of Royals fans getting rid of Soria. He was the whipping boy of fans all last year (much like me despising Dunn that one year and me despising Rios, etc) and the talk shows are blazing. Do you guys check Twitter? Type in Soria's name for gosh sakes. I don't like being negative Nancy but I'm just passing along what I KNOW from living here. Soria was booed; Soria was despised; Soria was a bad clubhouse guy; Soria was the scapegoat for all the Royals' bullpen woes. Soria will make me consider whether to buy mlb.com this year cause he will drive me insane UNLESS as I pointed out Coop fixes him. I also said the other reliever we got sounds fine. Read my posts before you guys say I'm totally out of line.

Don't you want info passed on? We can't be Sox shills all the time for gosh sakes. Be reasonable. He's awful; Coop easily could fix him. He's so bad greg doesn't want to watch him pitch on mlb.com in a Sox uniform so shoot me. You guys over-react. Read my tweets; they are not that negative since I do bring up Coop.

 

 

This goes both ways. Some of our players get trashed on here. Like take away two weeks of a hitter's 0 for 30 and the hitter is different. Look, I get it. Sox fans are excited cause he's new, the unknown. I'd love if Soria does what some relievers do and has a good year after a bad one.

 

1.) Soria is not unknown, he's literally been in the division since 2007 (with the exception of 2013)

2.) Soria is not awful. His career numbers argue quite the opposite actually. 2.86 ERA, 3.07 FIP, 3.28 xFIP, 9.62 K/9, 2.71 BB/9, 204 S over 573 IP. Prettay, prettay good.

3.) Can you please provide us with some first hand accounts of Soria being a bad clubhouse guy?