Balta1701 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 also a note worth keeping track of, which may apply to everyone other than relief pitchers: Quote More than a handful of teams benefitted last winter from slow-playing the free-agent market and waiting for the asking prices to fall inevitably. This is how the Phillies landed Jake Arrieta on a three-year contract, how the Red Sox eventually snagged J.D. Martinez on a five-year deal and how the Twins grabbed Logan Morrison, Lance Lynn and others from baseball’s bargain bin. Well, some executives increasingly believe the summer trade market will mirror what happened with free agency -- that if you remain patient, there will be such a high volume of players available that contenders will get really good deals, particularly as sellers increasingly become desperate to dump salary. “I don’t know if we have the best collection of prospects to deal,” said one evaluator, “but I don’t think we’ll have to have those, either. I think that as we get closer to the deadline, we’ll have a lot to choose from.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 26 minutes ago, SCCWS said: Robin had no more experience than Aaron Boone did and so far he seems to have "business managing a MLB club"..........................or managers don't matter, the roster is the key element. I don't fully agree with that statement. Players may be the ones directly responsible for the on-field results, but managers need to know how to bring the best out in their players. There's a lot behind the scenes we never see. They do more than just write in the lineup card before each start. Some individuals are more skilled at getting the best out of their players than others. If managing was so easy, every former player would be lining up to do it. Same goes for hitting and pitching coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 49 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: also a note worth keeping track of, which may apply to everyone other than relief pitchers: In other words, expect a lackluster trade deadline. Hopefully the Sox get out in front of the market and deal some guys early, like they did with Q last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Balta1701 said: The 2013 White Sox and their theme song in the field seem to disagree. This is fantastic! Well played! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 4 hours ago, Heads22 said: You also said Soria would be completely worthless for us. He would be without Coop. I discounted the fact Coop could make fathom a great pitcher/closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Guys, we(the fans) should be glad the Sox decided to rebuild when they did. If they put it off even one year, there is no way they'd have gotten a return anywhere near what they got for Sale/Q/Eaton. For MLB teams top 100 prospects>any major leaguer in value for one reason-dollars and cost control. We're reaching a tipping point where eventually trading players at all at the deadline will be counterproductive because any prospect that has at least a 40% chance to be an MLB player at any point will be untouchable. I hate to say this, but baseball is becoming broken, all sports are going this way, and the best way to battle tanking is simple-less team control of players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 7 hours ago, Jack Parkman said: Guys, we(the fans) should be glad the Sox decided to rebuild when they did. If they put it off even one year, there is no way they'd have gotten a return anywhere near what they got for Sale/Q/Eaton. For MLB teams top 100 prospects>any major leaguer in value for one reason-dollars and cost control. We're reaching a tipping point where eventually trading players at all at the deadline will be counterproductive because any prospect that has at least a 40% chance to be an MLB player at any point will be untouchable. I hate to say this, but baseball is becoming broken, all sports are going this way, and the best way to battle tanking is simple-less team control of players. The downside of less team control of players is the NBA, where there's no reason to watch if you care about competition because the next season is already rigged by players who just said they'll go get a couple rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 13 hours ago, Balta1701 said: also a note worth keeping track of, which may apply to everyone other than relief pitchers: Good thing we don't have great trade chips where we expect a lot from! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Balta1701 said: The downside of less team control of players is the NBA, where there's no reason to watch if you care about competition because the next season is already rigged by players who just said they'll go get a couple rings. Yeah, but it is harder to do that in MLB or other sports because of the nature of other sports. In the NBA, Having 3 of the top 15-20 players is good enough. In the other 3 major sports it isn't. It would need a multi-year free agent coordination. Also, baseball is the sport where players are paid the best, so it will be harder to put together these teams, unless you're the Yankees or Dodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Can avi raise his value enough to be a decent trade piece? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Hot FiRe said: Can avi raise his value enough to be a decent trade piece? Hard to say , probably not when you consider most teams are going to be playing the waiting game but that's a dangerous game. If you think piece or 2 are key then you should go out and get them and pay the price. He who hesitates is lost starts to come into play. Avi would have to stay really hot for the next few weeks . Maybe hit 5 or 6 more HR's getting his OPS over .900 to compensate for so much missed time. Of course if he does that and starts to resemble the AVi of last year with much more power then we have the classic sell at peak performance scenario but still those who think he's too injury prone or not getting on base enough. At some point the Sox are going to have to stop dealing the present for the future and with Eloy and Kopech and a few relievers and some other pitcher getting real close plus next years free agent class you probably should look for some big improvement next year and without Avi and Abreu its going to be a hard sell to convince a guys who want to win to sign with the Sox. Yea money talks yada yada but you'll see a guy like Machado losing so many years in Baltimore is going to get a big payday and from a legit contender . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 The Sox do need to start the buildup, but the pitching, primarily starting pitching, is the problem (ranked 29th). The young starters have not materialized. Kopech has the same issue the rest of these guys do - can't throw enough strikes. Lack of pitching shouldn't dissuade from moving Abreu. Of course, that doesn't mean "Trade for Syndegard", which is a silly and resource-depleting contrivance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 11 hours ago, Hot FiRe said: Can avi raise his value enough to be a decent trade piece? I think to maximize Avi's value the Sox keep him for the rest of the season to build more value and see what the offers look like this winter. By then we'll have a better idea of how the minor league outfielders have progressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Here’s how I would approach the deadline. Guys I’m Definitely Moving Joakim Soria James Shields Guys I Would Like to Move Luis Avilan Xavier Cedeno Guys I Would Listen On Jose Abreu Avi Garcia Leury Garcia Yolmer Sanchez Nate Jones I think the above is pretty straight forward. Soria & Shields will both be free agents after the season, so they gotta go. Soria should actually have some value, whereas I’d like to move Shields simply to open up a spot for Stephens. In a perfect world, I’d deal both Avilan & Cedeno, but I wouldn’t just give them away as both pretty solid left-handed relievers that are controllable for another 1 to 2 seasons. Got to get something of value for them. The guys I would listen on are more interesting. Nate Jones is the outlier of the group, as he’s only here because his value is at an all-time low and he’s cheap enough to roll the dice on in 2019. As for the four positional guys, all of them would be on the table, but I’d have to get quality offers to move them. If not, they can all be key parts of the 2019 roster as far as I’m concerned. For some reason though, I feel like Yolmer is the guy that teams will have the most interest. The fact he is 26, controllable for three more seasons, and can play anywhere in the infield should be of great value to a contender. I could see Milwaukee being a team with a lot of interest. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 57 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Here’s how I would approach the deadline. Guys I’m Definitely Moving Joakim Soria James Shields Guys I Would Like to Move Luis Avilan Xavier Cedeno Guys I Would Listen On Jose Abreu Avi Garcia Leury Garcia Yolmer Sanchez Nate Jones I think the above is pretty straight forward. Soria & Shields will both be free agents after the season, so they gotta go. Soria should actually have some value, whereas I’d like to move Shields simply to open up a spot for Stephens. In a perfect world, I’d deal both Avilan & Cedeno, but I wouldn’t just give them away as both pretty solid left-handed relievers that are controllable for another 1 to 2 seasons. Got to get something of value for them. The guys I would listen on are more interesting. Nate Jones is the outlier of the group, as he’s only here because his value is at an all-time low and he’s cheap enough to roll the dice on in 2019. As for the four positional guys, all of them would be on the table, but I’d have to get quality offers to move them. If not, they can all be key parts of the 2019 roster as far as I’m concerned. For some reason though, I feel like Yolmer is the guy that teams will have the most interest. The fact he is 26, controllable for three more seasons, and can play anywhere in the infield should be of great value to a contender. I could see Milwaukee being a team with a lot of interest. I fully endorse this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 58 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Here’s how I would approach the deadline. Guys I’m Definitely Moving Joakim Soria James Shields Guys I Would Like to Move Luis Avilan Xavier Cedeno Guys I Would Listen On Jose Abreu Avi Garcia Leury Garcia Yolmer Sanchez Nate Jones I'd put Avilan and Cedeno in the definitely moving category with Soria and Shields. And I would put Jones into the guys I would like to move category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said: I'd put Avilan and Cedeno in the definitely moving category with Soria and Shields. And I would put Jones into the guys I would like to move category. I would like to move Jones, but I don’t see a ton of interest in him right now and I really don’t want to dump him at this time. IIRC, he’ll make the league minimum next year, so he’s a guy we can give a shot to next season and hope he rebounds. And assuming there is value to be had, I’d love to move both of Avilan & Cedeno (and recall Bummer), but it seems like it will be a packed reliever market again and that could sap value. Being left-handed & controllable will definitely help though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Hot FiRe said: Can avi raise his value enough to be a decent trade piece? Not according to all the stats I've been reading about him. Those clamoring to trade him I guess are willing to get scraps back considering the negative numbers from the stat people re. Avi Edited July 4, 2018 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Here’s how I would approach the deadline. Guys I’m Definitely Moving Joakim Soria James Shields Guys I Would Like to Move Luis Avilan Xavier Cedeno Guys I Would Listen On Jose Abreu Avi Garcia Leury Garcia Yolmer Sanchez Nate Jones I think the above is pretty straight forward. Soria & Shields will both be free agents after the season, so they gotta go. Soria should actually have some value, whereas I’d like to move Shields simply to open up a spot for Stephens. In a perfect world, I’d deal both Avilan & Cedeno, but I wouldn’t just give them away as both pretty solid left-handed relievers that are controllable for another 1 to 2 seasons. Got to get something of value for them. The guys I would listen on are more interesting. Nate Jones is the outlier of the group, as he’s only here because his value is at an all-time low and he’s cheap enough to roll the dice on in 2019. As for the four positional guys, all of them would be on the table, but I’d have to get quality offers to move them. If not, they can all be key parts of the 2019 roster as far as I’m concerned. For some reason though, I feel like Yolmer is the guy that teams will have the most interest. The fact he is 26, controllable for three more seasons, and can play anywhere in the infield should be of great value to a contender. I could see Milwaukee being a team with a lot of interest. Awesome post. If Hahn is taking a lot of calls on him, I'd move Yolmer into the "definitely move" category. I think Avilan belongs there too. I'd only move Avi at the deadline if I'm blown away, I'd rather give him the rest of the season to build value. Abreu probably isn't going anywhere unless his July is like his April and May, and nowhere near his June. Edited July 4, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: Awesome post. If Hahn is taking a lot of calls on him, I'd move Yolmer into the "definitely move" category. I think Avilan belongs there too. Yeah, I would say Avilan is close to the “definitely move” category. We should probably move one of the lefties no matter what to open up a spot for Bummer eventually and all else being equal I’d move Avilan before Cedeno because he’s more expensive and has one less year of control. I hate the thought of trading Yolmer, but this could really be his peak value. With the addition of Madrigal, it’s really hard to see how he fits long-term other than as an elite reserve infielder, which is low on the priority list. Again, if the value isn’t there I have no problem keeping him around and serving as a transitional piece to Madrigal. But I feel like he’d be an incredibly valuable piece on an NL contender with the Brewers making the most sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Yeah, I would say Avilan is close to the “definitely move” category. We should probably move one of the lefties no matter what to open up a spot for Bummer eventually and all else being equal I’d move Avilan before Cedeno because he’s more expensive and has one less year of control. I hate the thought of trading Yolmer, but this could really be his peak value. With the addition of Madrigal, it’s really hard to see how he fits long-term other than as an elite reserve infielder, which is low on the priority list. Again, if the value isn’t there I have no problem keeping him around and serving as a transitional piece to Madrigal. But I feel like he’d be an incredibly valuable piece on an NL contender with the Brewers making the most sense. You took the words right out of my mouth. Another great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Yeah, I would say Avilan is close to the “definitely move” category. We should probably move one of the lefties no matter what to open up a spot for Bummer eventually and all else being equal I’d move Avilan before Cedeno because he’s more expensive and has one less year of control. I hate the thought of trading Yolmer, but this could really be his peak value. With the addition of Madrigal, it’s really hard to see how he fits long-term other than as an elite reserve infielder, which is low on the priority list. Again, if the value isn’t there I have no problem keeping him around and serving as a transitional piece to Madrigal. But I feel like he’d be an incredibly valuable piece on an NL contender with the Brewers making the most sense. I'd be willing to move Yolmer as well, but with him having 3.5 years of control left, 3.5 years of affordable control for a decent infielder is going to be a pricey deal. If a team isn't willing to put a top 100 prospect on the table for that amount of control, then they're not going to get the guy, and it's hard to justify sending out a top 100 prospect for a decent infielder just because theyre affordable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 49 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I'd be willing to move Yolmer as well, but with him having 3.5 years of control left, 3.5 years of affordable control for a decent infielder is going to be a pricey deal. If a team isn't willing to put a top 100 prospect on the table for that amount of control, then they're not going to get the guy, and it's hard to justify sending out a top 100 prospect for a decent infielder just because theyre affordable. So what would you take in return from the Brewers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: So what would you take in return from the Brewers? Would have to be something like Luis Ortiz as the key piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: So what would you take in return from the Brewers? Luis Ortiz or Lucas Erceg and Jean Carmona. Neither are top 100 guys, but they are the Brewers #3. #4 and #15 according to MLB pipeline. I'd target Corey Ray, but the Sox are so loaded in the OF they don't need him. Erceg would be nice because it would give the Sox a decent 3B prospect. Edited July 4, 2018 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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