Sox trade for Yonder Alonso; Alex Call to CLE

[Thad Bosley]

2 hours ago, Ross Gload Fan said:

Absolutely hysterical stuff from Philly:

 

I've Had Just About Enough Of The Chicago White Sox

I actually enjoyed the article.  It basically said the Sox are, or should be, a force to be reckoned with.  Which is true, given the team plays in the 3rd largest market in the country.  

[caulfield12]

from the same article in comments

 

GUS FROM ALLENTOWNDecember 15, 2018 at 8:24 pm

White Sox are the red headed step child of Chicago who brought home a case of the clap. 

Premise of Wanks article was not bad which lends to the absurdity of just how badly Phils ownership has screwed this franchise up the past 5 years. 

The White Sox local prime time ratings last year were 22,000 viewers a night and historically they are bottom 5 in MLB in tv ratings, sadly no one cares about this organization . The Phils last year avg 102,000 viewers a night for comparison sake. Scrubbies 166,000 . 

Now heres the kicker and tells you how badly Phils ownership has messed this organization up. When the Phillies are good( say 2011) The Phils averaged 297,000 viewers a night . The Phillies are an abslolute juggernaut media market for MLB but Phils ownership + management for the past 4-5 years have been fielding a team full of journeyman, utility players and overmatched prospects. 

There should be no decision between the White Sox + Phillies ever but there is right now .That’s how badly ownership/management have bleeped this thing up.

[Lillian]

9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

For the love of god just stop.  Alonso won’t be here for two years unless he is absolutely crushing it.

Or, unless the Sox sign Machado. 

[Dick Allen]

Olney is staying the Sox are not going to break records. It might explain why he laughed when others mentioned the White Sox. So much contradiction out there. I find it lunacy to trade for Alonso if you are not prepared to win the bidding. His info has to be wrong. We will see.

 

[wrathofhahn]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

Olney is staying the Sox are not going to break records. It might explain why he laughed when others mentioned the White Sox. So much contradiction out there. I find it lunacy to trade for Alonso if you are not prepared to win the bidding. His info has to be wrong. We will see.

 

Roensthal has said the same thing. There is so much lunacy in this thread basically people are just taking Boras demands as given I could easily see a scenario where we wouldn't break records to sign either player.  I think Stanton is the current record holder at 13/325 million. You offer that contract you probably get at least one of them to take it.

Yankees have said publicly they aren't going over 300 million. Redsox don't have any interest. Dodgers and Cubs would need to move payroll first. Nationals are probably out after Corbin. It's really only the Philles and Whitesox at this point.

[ptatc]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Olney is staying the Sox are not going to break records. It might explain why he laughed when others mentioned the White Sox. So much contradiction out there. I find it lunacy to trade for Alonso if you are not prepared to win the bidding. His info has to be wrong. We will see.

 

Absolutely.  If they aren't willing to break records, they wouldn't even be in the conversation.  That's true for all the teams mentioned.

[ptatc]

22 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Roensthal has said the same thing. There is so much lunacy in this thread basically people are just taking Boras demands as given I could easily see a scenario where we wouldn't break records to sign either player.  I think Stanton is the current record holder at 13/325 million. You offer that contract you probably get at least one of them to take it.

Yankees have said publicly they aren't going over 300 million. Redsox don't have any interest. Dodgers and Cubs would need to move payroll first. Nationals are probably out after Corbin. It's really only the Philles and Whitesox at this point.

Harper reportedly turned down 10/300 from the nationals. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 hours ago, Mr. Showtime said:

That's a funny take on the situation.

Very funny and now I even understand what the name Jack Parkman means so I learned something.

[JoshPR]

How good/bad is Alonso on defense? I've read people saying yuck and I've read he's good. What's the deal. And please tell me in plain English I'm dumb on metrics..😕

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Olney is staying the Sox are not going to break records. It might explain why he laughed when others mentioned the White Sox. So much contradiction out there. I find it lunacy to trade for Alonso if you are not prepared to win the bidding. His info has to be wrong. We will see.

 

His info is wrong or more likely a plant by us.  I can tell you right now any bidding process is going to require teams to present some indicative range of value up-front.  This is not a formal offer but simply a means to weed out teams that aren’t going to be serious players.  We know we’ve already made that first cut which means with near certainty we can assume that we’re willing to go at least 10/$300M (the Nationals offer) and likely much higher.

[iWiN4PreP]

I'm still surprised that people are defending this Alonso trade. 

1. He is overpaid. I don't think this is a point on contention. There's some 10 other dudes around the league (probably more) that we could rather have that give us the same sort of skills or better skills and cost less.

2. This adds to our 25-man roster. Sure, our roster isn't deep, but we are at a point in our direction that needs to be determined. Are we going big and getting Machado+Harper or a combo of one of them and other stars? Or are we going 100% rebuild next year? Either way -- Alonso doesn't help. 
If we were going with the rebuild, give the young guys the time and position on the 25 man roster and if you want veteran presence, use the money on someone who is actually highly skilled in the market. If you are going to try to compete there's no way Yonder Alonso is a top candidate here over our current players. Find someone better.

3. This entire trade hinges 100% on Machado signing. 
If Machado signs with us, you won't hear me mention the negative aspects of this trade ever again. Whatever was said between management/Machado is unclear, I have to think Hahn is a smart guy and he knows what he's doing. If this gets us Machado, then this trade was a Success and ONLY then.
BUT, if we don't get Machado, this looks creepy as FUCK and it's downright unprofessional to start trading for FA's family even when it is detrimental to the team. If we don't get Machado, it's moves like THIS that would make the management of this team look like an utter disgrace.

 

This is the first time since the rebuild started that I am started to question the ChW again. Prior to the rebuild I was considering finding a different team to root for... however management has made a lot of good moves since then. They have a leash with me now, but this offseason has went from "maybe they'll sign a whale--that'd be cool" to "They need to sign a whale, otherwise there will be serious questions on what they are doing."

 

I want to also add that I understand in the big scheme of things Yonder Alonso isn't a big deal. His salary won't kill us anywhere. That's not the point tho, you don't make bad moves just to make moves.

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

I'm still surprised that people are defending this Alonso trade. 

1. He is overpaid. I don't think this is a point on contention. There's some 10 other dudes around the league (probably more) that we could rather have that give us the same sort of skills or better skills and cost less.

2. This adds to our 25-man roster. Sure, our roster isn't deep, but we are at a point in our direction that needs to be determined. Are we going big and getting Machado+Harper or a combo of one of them and other stars? Or are we going 100% rebuild next year? Either way -- Alonso doesn't help. 
If we were going with the rebuild, give the young guys the time and position on the 25 man roster and if you want veteran presence, use the money on someone who is actually highly skilled in the market. If you are going to try to compete there's no way Yonder Alonso is a top candidate here over our current players. Find someone better.

3. This entire trade hinges 100% on Machado signing. 
If Machado signs with us, you won't hear me mention the negative aspects of this trade ever again. Whatever was said between management/Machado is unclear, I have to think Hahn is a smart guy and he knows what he's doing. If this gets us Machado, then this trade was a Success and ONLY then.
BUT, if we don't get Machado, this looks creepy as FUCK and it's downright unprofessional to start trading for FA's family even when it is detrimental to the team. If we don't get Machado, it's moves like THIS that would make the management of this team look like an utter disgrace.

 

This is the first time since the rebuild started that I am started to question the ChW again. Prior to the rebuild I was considering finding a different team to root for... however management has made a lot of good moves since then. They have a leash with me now, but this offseason has went from "maybe they'll sign a whale--that'd be cool" to "They need to sign a whale, otherwise there will be serious questions on what they are doing."

 

I want to also add that I understand in the big scheme of things Yonder Alonso isn't a big deal. His salary won't kill us anywhere. That's not the point tho, you don't make bad moves just to make moves.

Most of us are only going to like it if it leads to us landing Machado. If he signs somewhere else, I wouldn't be shocked to see him moved again.

[wrathofhahn]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Harper reportedly turned down 10/300 from the nationals. 

It was actually 10/284 after accounting for deferments but while I agree it sort is interesting as a starting point for us as fans that doesn't mean he'll even get that offer in FA again and it's unlikely the offer is even still on the table.

It wouldn't be the first time Boras has turned down a big offer only to see his clients sign for less. Do I think that will happen in Harpers case? No. He's probably getting a 300 million offer from someone.

But 400 million? I don't see how unless more teams other then reported become interested. Right now the only two teams with legit interest are the Phillies and Whitesox. The Yankees have 0 percent chance of signing him as their outfield are set. The Dodgers are tapped out and flush with OF. The Cubs are tapped out. The redsox are tapped out. The nationals have all but said they have no interest after signing corbin.

So where is the market? Owners have done a better job rebuffing Boras advances and letting GM's handle negotiations. Unless ownership gets involved directly with Boras like Illitch used to do I don't see any GM just giving record shattering contract without more teams becoming involved. I'm not sure he's even viewed as our number one target we seem to be keyed in on machado.

[SoxBlanco]

5 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

I'm still surprised that people are defending this Alonso trade. 

1. He is overpaid. I don't think this is a point on contention. There's some 10 other dudes around the league (probably more) that we could rather have that give us the same sort of skills or better skills and cost less.

2. This adds to our 25-man roster. Sure, our roster isn't deep, but we are at a point in our direction that needs to be determined. Are we going big and getting Machado+Harper or a combo of one of them and other stars? Or are we going 100% rebuild next year? Either way -- Alonso doesn't help. 
If we were going with the rebuild, give the young guys the time and position on the 25 man roster and if you want veteran presence, use the money on someone who is actually highly skilled in the market. If you are going to try to compete there's no way Yonder Alonso is a top candidate here over our current players. Find someone better.

3. This entire trade hinges 100% on Machado signing. 
If Machado signs with us, you won't hear me mention the negative aspects of this trade ever again. Whatever was said between management/Machado is unclear, I have to think Hahn is a smart guy and he knows what he's doing. If this gets us Machado, then this trade was a Success and ONLY then.
BUT, if we don't get Machado, this looks creepy as FUCK and it's downright unprofessional to start trading for FA's family even when it is detrimental to the team. If we don't get Machado, it's moves like THIS that would make the management of this team look like an utter disgrace.

 

This is the first time since the rebuild started that I am started to question the ChW again. Prior to the rebuild I was considering finding a different team to root for... however management has made a lot of good moves since then. They have a leash with me now, but this offseason has went from "maybe they'll sign a whale--that'd be cool" to "They need to sign a whale, otherwise there will be serious questions on what they are doing."

 

I want to also add that I understand in the big scheme of things Yonder Alonso isn't a big deal. His salary won't kill us anywhere. That's not the point tho, you don't make bad moves just to make moves.

Completely hypothetical here, but what if you knew trading for Alonso would increase your chances of signing Machado from a 25% chance to a 75% chance. You pull the trigger and Machado ultimately signs elsewhere. Was it a bad decision to get Alonso?

[Lillian]

Providing this ploy works, Machado signs and agrees to play third, I assume this would be the lineup versus RHP:

2B Moncada

3B Machado

DH Abreu

1B  Alonso

LF   Eloy

RF  Palka

C    Castillo

SS  Anderson

CF  Engel

It's not bad. It improves the defense at first, adds a left handed bat (He's pretty decent vs RHP) and would comprise a reasonably productive offense, while we wait for Robert to take over Engel's place in CF. 

[iWiN4PreP]

15 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

21 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

 

Most of us are only going to like it if it leads to us landing Machado. If he signs somewhere else, I wouldn't be shocked to see him moved again.

I don't think that's an easy task. He's overpaid and no one will need him. The Indians were happy to give him to us for free. We aren't moving him. 

 

14 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

21 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

 

Completely hypothetical here, but what if you knew trading for Alonso would increase your chances of signing Machado from a 25% chance to a 75% chance. You pull the trigger and Machado ultimately signs elsewhere. Was it a bad decision to get Alonso?

That's a good hypothetical and then no - it was not a bad decision in that respect then, but we will never know those details. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

24 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Providing this ploy works, Machado signs and agrees to play third, I assume this would be the lineup versus RHP:

2B Moncada

3B Machado

DH Abreu

1B  Alonso

LF   Eloy

RF  Palka

C    Castillo

SS  Anderson

CF  Engel

It's not bad. It improves the defense at first, adds a left handed bat (He's pretty decent vs RHP) and would comprise a reasonably productive offense, while we wait for Robert to take over Engel's place in CF. 

You are actually underselling it since you only talked about what Alonso brings.  Machado:3rd base huge upgrade defense and offense. Eloy :huge upgrade offense defense probably better than DelMonico and Palka. Castillo: more power and better defending then Narvaez. Plus still could add Harper or anyone else.

[iWiN4PreP]

Have we heard anything on whether Abreu is open to DH-ing? I know there was a tweet a couple of days ago suggesting that Abreu HATES to DH. 

[ron883]

9 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Have we heard anything on whether Abreu is open to DH-ing? I know there was a tweet a couple of days ago suggesting that Abreu HATES to DH. 

Well too damn bad for him. He is a butcher at 1st base. He'll play where the Sox tell him to play.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said:

I'm still surprised that people are defending this Alonso trade. 

1. He is overpaid. I don't think this is a point on contention. There's some 10 other dudes around the league (probably more) that we could rather have that give us the same sort of skills or better skills and cost less.

2. This adds to our 25-man roster. Sure, our roster isn't deep, but we are at a point in our direction that needs to be determined. Are we going big and getting Machado+Harper or a combo of one of them and other stars? Or are we going 100% rebuild next year? Either way -- Alonso doesn't help. 
If we were going with the rebuild, give the young guys the time and position on the 25 man roster and if you want veteran presence, use the money on someone who is actually highly skilled in the market. If you are going to try to compete there's no way Yonder Alonso is a top candidate here over our current players. Find someone better.

3. This entire trade hinges 100% on Machado signing. 
If Machado signs with us, you won't hear me mention the negative aspects of this trade ever again. Whatever was said between management/Machado is unclear, I have to think Hahn is a smart guy and he knows what he's doing. If this gets us Machado, then this trade was a Success and ONLY then.
BUT, if we don't get Machado, this looks creepy as FUCK and it's downright unprofessional to start trading for FA's family even when it is detrimental to the team. If we don't get Machado, it's moves like THIS that would make the management of this team look like an utter disgrace.

 

This is the first time since the rebuild started that I am started to question the ChW again. Prior to the rebuild I was considering finding a different team to root for... however management has made a lot of good moves since then. They have a leash with me now, but this offseason has went from "maybe they'll sign a whale--that'd be cool" to "They need to sign a whale, otherwise there will be serious questions on what they are doing."

 

I want to also add that I understand in the big scheme of things Yonder Alonso isn't a big deal. His salary won't kill us anywhere. That's not the point tho, you don't make bad moves just to make moves.

How are you still surprised when your 1st reason has everything to do with your third reason. If it contributes to us getting Machado in even the slightest way it was worth it. Machado is a big family guy. Played for the DR instead of the US in WBC to make his parents happy knowing it would fill them with joy and pride.

Really ? Switching your allegiance to another team is that flimsy ? Sorry most of us here are diehards. Live and die with the team. We don't sell out no matter what .

I have no idea how a $9M 1st baseman is detrimental to the team. He is here for 1 year maybe 2. Only way he is here for 2 is if we get Machado. That's a good thing or if he hits much better than we anticipate. So its win win if we keep him longer.

Are we going to compete in 2019?  The answer is most likely no, however if we believe the Alonso signing might influence the Machado signing  then take it a step further and ask yourself how might Machado signing with us influence Harper. It's possible we end up with both in a chain reaction type of events.

In for a penny in for a pound baby. It's ridiculous to say it's a bad move just to make a bad move. All kinds of things can happen from it or nothing could happen. Alonso might be a lottery ticket but if they are a bad move  millions of people make bad moves every week buying them. Perhaps even you have.

Edited December 16, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Have we heard anything on whether Abreu is open to DH-ing? I know there was a tweet a couple of days ago suggesting that Abreu HATES to DH. 

He may hate DHing, but that’s without question the best spot for him given his poor defense.  And his career splits are nearly identical between 1B & DH, which eliminates the uncertainty of whether he can handle the role.  I’d probably let Abreu play 1B against LHP (with Alonso on the bench), but that should be it for him.

[Jerksticks]

Agreed.  It has to happen at some point. If he wants to stay here long term I’m sure he will do whatever is best for the team.  I doubt it’s the point of contention we sometimes make it out to be

[Lillian]

36 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You are actually underselling it since you only talked about what Alonso brings.  Machado:3rd base huge upgrade defense and offense. Eloy :huge upgrade offense defense probably better than DelMonico and Palka. Castillo: more power and better defending then Narvaez. Plus still could add Harper or anyone else.

Of course, all of that was inferred. My point was that, providing Machado signs and plays third, the entire lineup looks fine, even with Alonso in it, about which many here seem to be very unhappy.

[Kyyle23]

20 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Of course, all of that was inferred. My point was that, providing Machado signs and plays third, the entire lineup looks fine, even with Alonso in it, about which many here seem to be very unhappy.

I think everyone's frown will turn upside down if manny signs here.  Right now people are just anxiety ridden because they don't know 

[pcq]

1 hour ago, iWiN4PreP said:

I'm still surprised that people are defending this Alonso trade. 

1. He is overpaid. I don't think this is a point on contention. There's some 10 other dudes around the league (probably more) that we could rather have that give us the same sort of skills or better skills and cost less.

2. This adds to our 25-man roster. Sure, our roster isn't deep, but we are at a point in our direction that needs to be determined. Are we going big and getting Machado+Harper or a combo of one of them and other stars? Or are we going 100% rebuild next year? Either way -- Alonso doesn't help. 
If we were going with the rebuild, give the young guys the time and position on the 25 man roster and if you want veteran presence, use the money on someone who is actually highly skilled in the market. If you are going to try to compete there's no way Yonder Alonso is a top candidate here over our current players. Find someone better.

3. This entire trade hinges 100% on Machado signing. 
If Machado signs with us, you won't hear me mention the negative aspects of this trade ever again. Whatever was said between management/Machado is unclear, I have to think Hahn is a smart guy and he knows what he's doing. If this gets us Machado, then this trade was a Success and ONLY then.
BUT, if we don't get Machado, this looks creepy as FUCK and it's downright unprofessional to start trading for FA's family even when it is detrimental to the team. If we don't get Machado, it's moves like THIS that would make the management of this team look like an utter disgrace.

 

This is the first time since the rebuild started that I am started to question the ChW again. Prior to the rebuild I was considering finding a different team to root for... however management has made a lot of good moves since then. They have a leash with me now, but this offseason has went from "maybe they'll sign a whale--that'd be cool" to "They need to sign a whale, otherwise there will be serious questions on what they are doing."

 

I want to also add that I understand in the big scheme of things Yonder Alonso isn't a big deal. His salary won't kill us anywhere. That's not the point tho, you don't make bad moves just to make moves.

The Yankees and Red Sox keep extra hitters around who compete for playing time. Not a terrible idea unless you are a big Adam Engel fan.