Machado also compares to Beltre and Eric Chavez. I just don't see them as the franchise defining players I want to sink all my money into, although I've probably always underrated Beltre.

2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Fair enough. I'd consider great more in the context of history and elite current. Machado comps with Josh Donaldson and I struggle to call him great.

Wait you don't think Josh Donaldson is great? From 2013-2017 the only better player in all of baseball was Trout.

1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said:

Machado also compares to Beltre and Eric Chavez. I just don't see them as the franchise defining players I want to sink all my money into, although I've probably always underrated Beltre.

Wait you don't think Beltre is great either? He's a slam dunk HOF. Who do you think is great?

5 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Fair enough. I'd consider great more in the context of history and elite current. Machado comps with Josh Donaldson and I struggle to call him great.

You have an insane definition of great.  There's nothing else to this argument at this point.

5 minutes ago, OmarComing25 said:

Wait you don't think Beltre is great either? He's a slam dunk HOF. Who do you think is great?

Beltre is one of the greatest 3rd baseman of all-time. 

Beltre shows you have funny and inconsistent baseball can be too. Anyone who remembers young Beltre remembers that he was considered a bust despite being pretty good. He couldn't hit in LA until his FA year where he hit the 48 HR's - which, at the time everyone thought was juice induced... and after the rest of his career, I'd argue was probably juice induced. Then, he took a big step back the year after with Seattle after signing a big deal. He struggled more in Seattle offensively - being very inconsistent - until he fully figured it out late in his career in Texas. Beltre has had an up and down career though - 5 of his first 12 years were under 3 WAR (4 under 2.4 WAR), and shows the ups and downs of even stars in this game.

That said, Beltre was 100% juicing his 48 HR season.

24 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Machado also compares to Beltre and Eric Chavez. I just don't see them as the franchise defining players I want to sink all my money into, although I've probably always underrated Beltre.

Beltre and Chavez played in a different era, looking at raw numbers do not do these players justice.

Looking at these players through age 25:

Beltre - 23.4 bWAR, 17.3 oWAR, 7.8 dWAR, 0 GG

Chavez - 20.2 bWAR, 19.2 oWAR 2.5 dWAR, 3 GGs

Machado - 33.8 bWAR, 25.8 oWAR, 11.3 dWAR, 2 GGs

Like others have said, Beltre was incredibly consistent throughout his career and built one of the best resume for a 3B in the entire history of MLB. Chavez could have had some HOF considerations as well given the good start to his career, but injuries robbed him of his prime and his output quickly tailed off after age 27. Manny has had the best start to his career out of the three, and he's given no reason he's on the trajectory of Chavez. As of now, he is one of the greats of the present players and also one of the great 3Bs through age 25 in the history of the game.

2 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

Machado also compares to Beltre and Eric Chavez. I just don't see them as the franchise defining players I want to sink all my money into, although I've probably always underrated Beltre.

Future Hall of Famer Adrian Beltre? Really?

Edited March 26, 20197 yr by soxfan2014

2 hours ago, OmarComing25 said:

Wait you don't think Beltre is great either? He's a slam dunk HOF. Who do you think is great?

This is enough of a reason to stop arguing with the poster, ha.

1 hour ago, soxfan2014 said:

This is enough of a reason to stop arguing with the poster, ha.

To his point, if the Sox signed manny for 300 million and his first few years were like Beltre in Seattle, there would be a lot of angry Sox fans. Not excusing what he said though.

12 hours ago, TaylorStSox said:

Fair enough. I'd consider great more in the context of history and elite current. Machado comps with Josh Donaldson and I struggle to call him great.

Josh Donaldson not great?  What in the fuck...

Hoping Eloy has the skill and eyesight to lay off the low sliders. No need to be anxious and he has to take his walks. I am going to assume for now he can do this and not blame Kenny. We also need Palka to back him up. 

3 hours ago, pcq said:

Hoping Eloy has the skill and eyesight to lay off the low sliders. No need to be anxious and he has to take his walks. I am going to assume for now he can do this and not blame Kenny. We also need Palka to back him up. 

Lot to digest here.   

On 3/26/2019 at 11:08 AM, OmarComing25 said:

Wait you don't think Beltre is great either? He's a slam dunk HOF. Who do you think is great?

ON what basis is  Beltre a certifiable future Hall of Famer?  There have been so many players who have been labeled as being definitely HOF material but who subsequently failed to reach the HOF that it isn't funny.

10 minutes ago, Insp said:

ON what basis is  Beltre a certifiable future Hall of Famer?  There have been so many players who have been labeled as being definitely HOF material but who subsequently failed to reach the HOF that it isn't funny.

Maybe just peruse this for 15 seconds.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beltrad01.shtml

15 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

Maybe just peruse this for 15 seconds.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beltrad01.shtml

LMFAO! I don't see how anyone can argue against Belted being a hall of famer. His defense, bat, longevity and the way he carried himself make it a no brainer.

7 hours ago, Insp said:

ON what basis is  Beltre a certifiable future Hall of Famer?  There have been so many players who have been labeled as being definitely HOF material but who subsequently failed to reach the HOF that it isn't funny.

Now I know you aren't legit.

I could see Beltre maybe if he played for the Cub. 

33 minutes ago, pcq said:

I could see Beltre maybe if he played for the Cub. 

Nobody gives a flying f*** about that team in Boston. What are they even called again? 

And that team wearing blue in Los Angeles needs to be contracted. Seriously, Boston, Los Angeles, i mean why would anyone care about these franchises, when's the last time these teams made a world series? 

9 hours ago, Insp said:

ON what basis is  Beltre a certifiable future Hall of Famer?  There have been so many players who have been labeled as being definitely HOF material but who subsequently failed to reach the HOF that it isn't funny.

?????

Beltre is probably the best all around 3B of all time. He didn't hit as many HR or win as many Gold Gloves as Mike Schmidt, but Beltre was a much better hitter. 477 HR and 3K hits 5 GG. His resume speaks for itself. 

IIRC Beltre is 2nd all time in HR by a 3B, behind only Schmidt. 

Edited March 30, 20197 yr by Jack Parkman

Beltre will be a first ballot HOFer.

Diakite, the center for the UVA basketball team, looks identical facially to Eloy ?

Part of the Eloy extension was agreement not to file a grievance.  Remember this when you ask why Kopech was called up last year with a year more time at AAA than Eloy.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/rosenthals-latest-kimbrel-keuchel-eloy-pillar-joyce.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Part of the Eloy extension was agreement not to file a grievance.  Remember this when you ask why Kopech was called up last year with a year more time at AAA than Eloy.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/rosenthals-latest-kimbrel-keuchel-eloy-pillar-joyce.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

So what has actually resulted from a player in the same situation filing a grievance?  Kris Bryant filed one and I don’t believe anything came of it.  And he was the most obvious case of a player who was ready for the majors.

Edited April 1, 20197 yr by Harper2Sox

Boegarts nearing an extension.  Doesn’t look like that money will be spent!

I’m glad he got paid but he should have started the year in AAA.  Had a bad spring training and looks completely over matched thus far.