3 minutes ago, fathom said:

I’m thinking more for next 3 years, and I also don’t think you would want Wheeler in that 5th year.

Who cares? The Sox window is the next four seasons. Shit hits the fan in the 23-24 offseason. Is it going to hurt? Yeah. But I think if you went back to summer of 2008 and asked Blackhawks fans if they'd trade 7-8 years of mediocrity for 3 championships, they'd take it. 

Edited December 2, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Wheeler has a more robust market. I think he stays on the East Coast, with either the Yankees or Phillies. I don't think the Sox are going to go to the level to get the job done. 

If Wheeler's market is really in the 4/$80 or 5$100 range, I think he would have signed already.  I'm starting to think that it's going to take at least 6/130 to get the job done. 

Jack, you are speculating based on your personal bias.

There's nothing out there saying the market is anywhere near 6/130. 

The market predictors, who have been far from perfect, believe he's going to get less than 100 million. 

Saying you think he would sign if that was his price is an assumption based on nothing. Maybe his offers are 4/80 and he wants 5/100. That's a pretty big difference. Almost no one signed by this time last year, so assuming he would have signed by now is a leap of faith I'm not willing to take.

Edited December 2, 20196 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Jack, you are speculating based on your personal bias.

There's nothing out there saying the market is anywhere near 6/130. 

The market predictors, who have been far from perfect, believe he's going to get less than 100 million. 

Everyone is in on him. He's the hottest ticket in FA. Of course he's going to get a lot of money. 

There are more teams in on Wheeler than on Cole/Strasburg. 

Edited December 2, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

I’m thinking more for next 3 years, and I also don’t think you would want Wheeler in that 5th year.

if you keep waiting for the perfect players and contracts for the next 10 years you'll end up with a window for this core of 2 years or less.

And for the next three years, Ryu + Castellanos is much more like 32mm plus. Wheeler would be 22 mill even at the high number thrown around. And I would bet that Wheeler is much more productive than Ryu due to starts alone.

If wheeler is their guy sox need to land him, and if he starts to touch stras's floor, then you'd hope they step up to stras, not down to a huge risk in Ryu. 

Aaron Sanchez got non-tendered.

Get your man, Rick.

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Everyone is in on him. He's the hottest ticket in FA. Of course he's going to get a lot of money. 

First of all, who is "everyone?"

Second of all, the only reason more teams are interested is because he's "more affordable" not because he's better. You don't attempt to sign the more affordable arm for an unaffordable number just to avoid paying the big guns. The higher you go, the more reasonable it gets to just offer the money to Cole. He's got a market because he's not at the top of the market; once he enters that realm, his suitors decrease significantly.

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Jack, you are speculating based on your personal bias.

There's nothing out there saying the market is anywhere near 6/130. 

The market predictors, who have been far from perfect, believe he's going to get less than 100 million. 

Saying you think he would sign if that was his price is an assumption based on nothing. Maybe his offers are 4/80 and he wants 5/100. That's a pretty big difference. Almost no one signed by this time last year, so assuming he would have signed by now is a leap of faith I'm not willing to take.

If the White Sox are at 4/80 and he's asked for 5/100 and they haven't gotten this done somehow then someone in this org isn't doing this correctly. 

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

First of all, who is "everyone?"

Second of all, the only reason more teams are interested is because he's "more affordable" not because he's better. You don't attempt to sign the more affordable arm for an unaffordable number just to avoid paying the big guns. The higher you go, the more reasonable it gets to just offer the money to Cole. He's got a market because he's not at the top of the market; once he enters that realm, his suitors decrease significantly.

Basically every team not rebuilding and looking for pitching that has money to spend. 

I believe Wheeler has become a borderline top of the market arm. 

Edited December 2, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

if you keep waiting for the perfect players and contracts for the next 10 years you'll end up with a window for this core of 2 years or less.

And for the next three years, Ryu + Castellanos is much more like 32mm plus. Wheeler would be 22 mill even at the high number thrown around. And I would bet that Wheeler is much more productive than Ryu due to starts alone.

If wheeler is their guy sox need to land him, and if he starts to touch stras's floor, then you'd hope they step up to stras, not down to a huge risk in Ryu. 

Well put but if you get outbid in a hot market it might be for the best. I think Cole and Stras will be out of reach. 

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Basically every team not rebuilding and looking for pitching that has money to spend. 

I believe Wheeler has become a borderline top of the market arm. 

Jack, again what is this based on? The Twins haven't even made the guy a formal offer yet - or hadn't as of Thanksgiving - yet you think he would have made his decision already if it was 5/100 million.

As of now, we have no idea who has bid on Wheeler and everything regarding his market is pure speculation.

He is not a borderline top of the market arm, either. I agree SP's get overpaid more than any position in FA - especially those with ++ stuff - but that doesn't mean he's going to get some absurd 6/130 contract unless his agent pulls a fast one and some team gets real dumb.

3 minutes ago, pcq said:

Well put but if you get outbid in a hot market it might be for the best. I think Cole and Stras will be out of reach. 

If you are getting outbid in a hot market, and outbid in a cold market, perhaps you need to re-evaluate your fa strategy.

23 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Aaron Sanchez got non-tendered.

Get your man, Rick.

wow.... this is who I want as our SP-2.

Wheeler might actually be a guy where a bunch of teams park at one number and other factors come into play.

Just now, cjgalloway said:

wow.... this is who I want as our SP-2.

He just had shoulder surgery and will miss the part of the season we'd need him most.  

If Jack is right and the market gets up to like 6/125, I'd prolly fold there. I know we want them to spend but 5 years with Wheeler is already probably 1 too many. 

I wonder if we could get Marco Gonzalez from SEA for Dunning/Walker and a third piece. 

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

He just had shoulder surgery and will miss the part of the season we'd need him most.  

did not kinow the current injury

2 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

If Jack is right and the market gets up to like 6/125, I'd prolly fold there. I know we want them to spend but 5 years with Wheeler is already probably 1 too many. 

I wonder if we could get Marco Gonzalez from SEA for Dunning/Walker and a third piece. 

I would hate that Marco trade... People forget Dunning was a top 70 prospect and rising before he had his TJ.. I don't think we should value him much less than that now.  Let's see what he brings and not trade him for Marco Gonzalez. 

I dont care what his WAR is, I'd never pay for a pitcher like Marco Gonzales.

1 minute ago, cjgalloway said:

I would hate that Marco trade... People forget Dunning was a top 70 prospect and rising before he had his TJ.. I don't think we should value him much less than that now.  Let's see what he brings and not trade him for Marco Gonzalez. 

I don't want to trade him either, before he got hurt, he had the highest floor of any of the pitching prospects but TJS introduces some uncertainty into the equation and if the market for Wheeler gets to 6 years, i think that's too much risk. Since we can't/won't pay for Cole/Strasburg the Sox would have to trade for a pitcher as Ryu has injury issues and Boras issues and Madbum isn't a good fit.

Dear Santa,

We all have been good this year. Could u please give Wheeler for an early Christmas gift to the Whitesox.  

P.s if we get him I will not talk bad about the Cubs for 1 whole day.

1 hour ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Aaron Sanchez got non-tendered.

Get your man, Rick.

Shoulder surgery will keep him out of the 2020 season.  Good type of guy but wrong circumstances.

Kaplan just said Cole Hamels is talking to the White Sox.

not only that, Hamels is going to be a guest on the White Sox podcast tomorrow.

Edited December 3, 20196 yr by Dick Allen

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Kaplan just said Cole Hamels is talking to the White Sox.

not only that, Hamels is going to be a guest on the White Sox podcast tomorrow.

Wheeler + Hamels would be fucking fantastic 

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Kaplan just said Cole Hamels is talking to the White Sox.

not only that, Hamels is going to be a guest on the White Sox podcast tomorrow.

Well that's odd. He was pretty clear he wanted to go to a contender. I honestly want nothing to do with the guy either. His arm is going to fall off at some point.

7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Kaplan just said Cole Hamels is talking to the White Sox.

not only that, Hamels is going to be a guest on the White Sox podcast tomorrow.

Wtf