6 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

I’m pretty sure Colorado would trade Marquez for Kopech and Vaughn...

Based on?

31 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

I think Stroman is about as aggressive as this org can or will get. Remember, while people were losing their lives, their jobs, and/or their businesses, JR saw fit to b**** about losing money.

I admire your exuberance after the Machado deal and your decamping for Tennessee, though.

NO ONE IS SAYING STROMAN IS A HIGHER IMACT STARTER!!!!!

I think that posters who support his acquisition prefer to live in reality, rather than wasting their time dreaming about acquisitions that will never ever happen. Again, JR b****ed about losing money during a pandemic, and has NEVER signed a FA to a 9-figure contract.

 

That aside, Stroman is a better acquisition because of at least the following:

1. The lower salary for Stroman, ehich enables other holes to be filled this offseason, this trade deadline, & in future offseasons/trade deadlines,

2. The opportunity for surplus value (@ $8MM/WAR, Stroman just has to average ~2WAR/YR to be worth it $17MM/YR; @ $32MM/YR, Bauer would have to average ~4WAR/YR)

3. Bauer will command more years, which will limit roster flexibility in the latter half of this competitive window, and

4. If Bauer doesn't work out, for WHATEVER reason, there are only a handful of teams that could/would take on a $32MM/YR contract; if Stroman doesn't work out, pretty much every other MLB team could take on $17MM/YR. To re-market Bauer later on will cost money and/or trade value, whereas the disposing of a smaller contract with surplus value could/would cost less. 

Which again, is why Bauer and Springer are pipe dreams and wastes of time to even think about. 

To those who insist on denying reality:

Once again, JR b****ed about financial losses during a pandemic, which is still ongoing. And once again, this org has never signed a FA to a 9-figure contract. The pandemic makes it MORE likely that they wont break that streak in THIS offseason. YMMV.

This is not really accurate, but it won't stop it from getting repeated.  He got asked a press question about the topic, and he answered it.

11 minutes ago, bmags said:

I just am at a completely different place than you guys. I'm willing to trade talent for position players. I would much, much rather get pitchers through FA, or soak in an expensive/market priced vet through trade.

Woodruff is good, but I'm not interested in paying the huge sums for cheap control. Pitchers are too volatile. He's not even openly on the market, so you know he'll take a ton. Ideally a great pitcher the next few years gets dangled and we have resources to get them, but the obsession over woodruff is misplaced to me.

I would like to see these happen, as I think this is where the best values will come this winter, probably the best of our lifetimes, but I don't hold a lot of faith that this team will spend a lot of money to take advantage of it.

As someone who wants 2 SPs this year, I'm starting to think hard about Minor as SP #2. 

Open questions are whether the weird schedule last year made his fastball so much worse, as his velo was down and a lot even though that has been the trend post surgery in 2015.

That said, that guy gets you innings, and I'm worried about what happens to this rotation in a 162 game schedule with an injury up front.

23 minutes ago, Flash said:

Not sure if this is serious question but doubt you can get Marquez for combo of Cease AND Eloy.

Wait what?

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I would like to see these happen, as I think this is where the best values will come this winter, probably the best of our lifetimes, but I don't hold a lot of faith that this team will spend a lot of money to take advantage of it.

I'm not even sure there is a good option yet, but there will definitely be an opportunity in next few years, I just hope we can take advantage. The Greinke/Verlander type availability are the perfect pieces for up and coming contenders. Sox need to build depth now and be patient for a big, reliable vet like that.

16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

This is not really accurate, but it won't stop it from getting repeated.  He got asked a press question about the topic, and he answered it.

Eh, I have a higher standard for someone like JR who has the benefit of a superior education, as well as 4 decades of experience in being asked questions by the media, as well as PR folks on staff who could/should have prepared him properly.

The way he answered that question was moronic on his part. Especially for someone like him.  That aside, it pretty much confirms that neither Bauer, nor any of the other expensive FA will be signed here.

Edited November 3, 20205 yr by Two-Gun Pete

17 minutes ago, bmags said:

I'm not even sure there is a good option yet, but there will definitely be an opportunity in next few years, I just hope we can take advantage. The Greinke/Verlander type availability are the perfect pieces for up and coming contenders. Sox need to build depth now and be patient for a big, reliable vet like that.

Especially since so many teams will be looking to cut, that taking on a contract like this will come at a discount.

9 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Eh, I have a higher standard for someone like JR who has the benefit of a superior education, as well as 4 decades of experience in being asked questions by the media, as well as PR folks on staff who could/should have prepared him properly.

The way he answered that question was moronic on his part. Especially for someone like him.  That aside, it pretty much confirms that neither Bauer, nor any of the other expensive FA will be signed here.

What exactly was moronic about it?    All he did was talk about the losses and the difference between playing most of a season and none of a season with fans, and the difference on the bottom line because of it.  Remove your feelings here.

Speculation is both Stroman and Gausman will accept QOs then seek to negotiate multi-year deals a la Abreu. If this happens, we pin our hopes on signing Bauer (who knows, it could happen). If we miss out on those 3, who do we pursue who can help lead us to the promised land, ideally in 2021? For me, we will need to make a trade(s). Since everyone needs pitching, we might need to overpay. There are possibly 5-8 pitchers who MIGHT be available in trade who can slot in as #2-3 types (if you concede Giolito #1). I'd be interested in who this board believes should be dangled to clubs as trade bait?   

2 minutes ago, Flash said:

Speculation is both Stroman and Gausman will accept QOs then seek to negotiate multi-year deals a la Abreu. If this happens, we pin our hopes on signing Bauer (who knows, it could happen). If we miss out on those 3, who do we pursue who can help lead us to the promised land, ideally in 2021? For me, we will need to make a trade(s). Since everyone needs pitching, we might need to overpay. There are possibly 5-8 pitchers who MIGHT be available in trade who can slot in as #2-3 types (if you concede Giolito #1). I'd be interested in who this board believes should be dangled to clubs as trade bait?   

I mentioned it previously but anybody that makes a true difference is gonna cost Vaughn, I think a Brandon Woodruff is attainable and would be a nice upgrade considering the Sox fill their RF/DH role 

56 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I absolutely do not want to trade Vaughn unless it's for a DeGrom type. He is going to absolutely be a stud.  

Woodruff is a stud. I am more interested in the idea here of springer & brantley. interesting. that team wins a world series in either 21 or 22. BUT, man do you give up a nice long Vaughn run. As mentioned, he is going to be great. 

55 minutes ago, Flash said:

Based on?

logic

16 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

I mentioned it previously but anybody that makes a true difference is gonna cost Vaughn, I think a Brandon Woodruff is attainable and would be a nice upgrade considering the Sox fill their RF/DH role 

Why is Woodruff attainable though?  I mean, I am sure they'd trade him if he get blown away, but Brewers aren't really the team to move good pitchers with cheap control. 

10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Why is Woodruff attainable though?  I mean, I am sure they'd trade him if he get blown away, but Brewers aren't really the team to move good pitchers with cheap control. 

For sure but I’m saying in regards to a previous post mentioned DeGrom which no way would happen.
I’m looking at let’s say the top 20 pitchers in baseball who would really slot in nicely behind or even in front of Giolito. Vaughn is going to be a stud but it’s a lot easier to find a 1B/DH slugger than it is to find a top line starter who is still young. I think if the Sox are offering Vaughn and Cease for Woodruff they’re going to listen, considering Cease could slot into their rotation now and Vaughn will be ready by mid season if not to start the season at 1B for them. It’s a lot to give up but I’d do it if I’m Rick Hahn. 

2 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

How much would German Marquez cost in a trade? I wonder if Colorado likes Dylan Cease 

If we trade Cease for Marquez, that would mean we basically got Eloy and Marquez for Quintana.

And while we're at it, we might as well sign Quintana. Then that would mean we got Eloy and Marquez for renting out Quintana for a couple years.

Marquez would be amazing, but he’ll require a Sale lite package.  So basically you’re looking at Cease, Vaughn, and maybe a back half top 10 type like Rutherford or Adolfo.  Personally, I’d hate to give up a dirt cheap Vaughn for the next seven years when I can just go sign a starter for money.

28 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Marquez would be amazing, but he’ll require a Sale lite package.  So basically you’re looking at Cease, Vaughn, and maybe a back half top 10 type like Rutherford or Adolfo.  Personally, I’d hate to give up a dirt cheap Vaughn for the next seven years when I can just go sign a starter for money.

Am I missing something here? Marquez is good and cheap but Chris Sale he is not. I know you said "Sale lite" but that still feels crazy steep. Sale had a career ERA of 3, had been an All-Star 5 times, and had received Cy Young votes in each of those seasons and MVP votes twice. He also had 4 years of team control left. These situations aren't all that similar in my eyes. 

1 hour ago, oneofthemikes said:

Am I missing something here? Marquez is good and cheap but Chris Sale he is not. I know you said "Sale lite" but that still feels crazy steep. Sale had a career ERA of 3, had been an All-Star 5 times, and had received Cy Young votes in each of those seasons and MVP votes twice. He also had 4 years of team control left. These situations aren't all that similar in my eyes. 

Marquez was literally just ranked the 22nd most valuable asset in baseball by Fangraphs.  He also has 4 years of team control left.  Not saying he’s anywhere as good as Sale was, but I think people are under estimating the Coors impact here.  Get him out of there I think he’s a consistent 4+ win pitcher.  Also, the difference in value between Moncada (a true 70 FV guy) and Vaughn is quite substantial.  I truly believe Colorado would need to two top 50 caliber prospects to move him.

RHSP Trevor Bauer

LHSP Robbie Ray

RHRP Liam Hendriks

LHRP Brad Hand

RF Joc Pederson

 

I think that would make the White Sox the favorites for at least the AL Central.

 

2 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

RHSP Trevor Bauer

LHSP Robbie Ray

RHRP Liam Hendriks

LHRP Brad Hand

RF Joc Pederson

 

I think that would make the White Sox the favorites for at least the AL Central.

 

We don’t even need to add that much to be the favorites for the Central.

I understand the reluctance to contemplate trading any core assets but we are kidding ourselves if we think guys like Woodruff or even Marquez can be had without parting with at least one of our key pieces. We can possibly lower our sites a bit and target Darvish or Musgrove and avoid giving up Vaughn but the idea that we can attract Marquez or Woodruff (neither of whom are thought of as remotely available) w/o parting with more than one of our big guns is fantasy. 

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We don’t even need to add that much to be the favorites for the Central.

I think it would also put them in the running for the championship, but I didn't want to say it would make them the favorites for that. Maybe favorites for the AL Pennant?

1 hour ago, Dam8610 said:

RHSP Trevor Bauer

LHSP Robbie Ray

RHRP Liam Hendriks

LHRP Brad Hand

RF Joc Pederson

 

I think that would make the White Sox the favorites for at least the AL Central.

 

Still wish they would have just claimed him at $10 mill, slightly less than what the Sox paid Colome this year.

2 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

RHSP Trevor Bauer

LHSP Robbie Ray

RHRP Liam Hendriks

LHRP Brad Hand

RF Joc Pederson

 

I think that would make the White Sox the favorites for at least the AL Central.

 

Robbie Ray?

But, why?

Why not Stroman or Quintana over Ray?

Ray is awful to me.