One of Crochet, Vaughan or Kopech and Cease and then filler (Dunning/Heuer/Burdi/etc.). That is it.

 

2 minutes ago, Quin said:

Heat check:

If you didn't have to give up Vaughn or Crochet, would you deal Kopech in a package for Snell?

(I would, but I'm not a scout and I could obviously be an idiot. I should probably trust Jimmy on this if we're being honest.)

I wouldn't want to.  But it depends on what else is going in the package and how long the Sox think it will be before Kopech is throwing a full season of starts.

Here are a few things we can hang our hats on though:

(1) Kopech is still going to have probably similar or greater trade value at this point midseason, and Kopech will still have tons of trade value even if he comes up this season and falters, and now we're in the 2021-22 offseason;

(2) Blake Snell, if he's still on the Rays midseason, is still going to be on the trade block, and his trade value will likely be lesser because of fewer months of team control remaining

(3) Even if Snell is gone and we want to trade Kopech for a top-end SP later, if there is a guy out there available on any team, Kopech will put the Sox solidly in the discussion.

Overall if the Rays feel like they will need to move that salary, then they are more under pressure than the Sox are.  The Sox have the pieces selling teams want, so we're good going forward.  It is really all about how much can our developmental and coaching staffs help our young pitchers realize their potential.  I really don't like the idea of bringing in some new pitching coach with some supposedly new philosophy and then cutting bait on arguably our best young SP outside of Gioluito before giving the guy a chance to work with him. 

I think it's very fair if not preferable that the Sox really wait a year before trading any of their quality young SP prospects/young MLB SPs, outside of Lopez of course.  These guys are still going to have lots of value a year later, even Cease.

34 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

One of Crochet, Vaughan or Kopech and Cease and then filler (Dunning/Heuer/Burdi/etc.). That is it.

 

And the post that started this thread said 2 of them (Kopech+Crochet) + Madrigal as the proposed price. 

33 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

I wouldn't want to.  But it depends on what else is going in the package and how long the Sox think it will be before Kopech is throwing a full season of starts.

Here are a few things we can hang our hats on though:

(1) Kopech is still going to have probably similar or greater trade value at this point midseason, and Kopech will still have tons of trade value even if he comes up this season and falters, and now we're in the 2021-22 offseason;

(2) Blake Snell, if he's still on the Rays midseason, is still going to be on the trade block, and his trade value will likely be lesser because of fewer months of team control remaining

(3) Even if Snell is gone and we want to trade Kopech for a top-end SP later, if there is a guy out there available on any team, Kopech will put the Sox solidly in the discussion.

Overall if the Rays feel like they will need to move that salary, then they are more under pressure than the Sox are.  The Sox have the pieces selling teams want, so we're good going forward.  It is really all about how much can our developmental and coaching staffs help our young pitchers realize their potential.  I really don't like the idea of bringing in some new pitching coach with some supposedly new philosophy and then cutting bait on arguably our best young SP outside of Gioluito before giving the guy a chance to work with him. 

I think it's very fair if not preferable that the Sox really wait a year before trading any of their quality young SP prospects/young MLB SPs, outside of Lopez of course.  These guys are still going to have lots of value a year later, even Cease.

If the Rays are in first place in the AL East again and Snell is leading the charge, they're not going to be particularly likely to move Snell. If you want him, you probably need to make that move now.

38 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

One of Crochet, Vaughan or Kopech and Cease and then filler (Dunning/Heuer/Burdi/etc.). That is it.

 

To be clear... Dunning is not "filler"

I think a Kopech + Dunning + Adolfo + lower third of top 30 gets it done. Would I do it?  If we signed Springer yes, if not... I wouldn't hate it or love it. I'm a huge Kopech lover mind you.

The only reason i would consider trading Vaughn is because Yermin can likely provide much of what Vaughn would bring to the table.

1 minute ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

The only reason i would consider trading Vaughn is because Yermin can likely provide much of what Vaughn would bring to the table.

This is the good stuff. 

I'd pass on any of these type of deals. I'm not big on a Marquez or Snell trade to be completely honest. It'd be a very Sox move ... we have no holes to fill outside of SP and RF. We have enforcements on the way for the holes we have with Vaughn, Kopech, a full year of Dunning, possibly Crochet, etc. Why trade depth when you see what happens in a long season to teams? Keep your depth and actually open that wallet and sign Bauer or a top SP for once and be done with it. If you don't spend now, then never spend. 

 

To me if you're going to acquire a guy via trade you don't go after a Snell, you go after a Musgrove - less cost both in terms of money and prospects. Snell is good, not great. 

I wouldn't trade Kopech for Snell straight up.   We'd be regretting this trade big time in less than a year.

5 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

I'd pass on any of these type of deals. I'm not big on a Marquez or Snell trade to be completely honest. It'd be a very Sox move ... we have no holes to fill outside of SP and RF. We have enforcements on the way for the holes we have with Vaughn, Kopech, a full year of Dunning, possibly Crochet, etc. Why trade depth when you see what happens in a long season to teams? Keep your depth and actually open that wallet and sign Bauer or a top SP for once and be done with it. If you don't spend now, then never spend. 

 

To me if you're going to acquire a guy via trade you don't go after a Snell, you go after a Musgrove - less cost both in terms of money and prospects. Snell is good, not great. 

This.  This this. This.   We’re trying to build a juggernaut not a 2-3 yr window 

16 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

The only reason i would consider trading Vaughn is because Yermin can likely provide much of what Vaughn would bring to the table.

Cool, cool, cool, go ahead and dangle Yermin as the centerpiece and see what kind of return you get.

Edited November 24, 20205 yr by SouthWallace

3 minutes ago, SouthWallace said:

Cool, cool, cool, go ahead and dangle Yermin as the centerpiece and see what kind of return you get.

Yermin is completely undervalued in today's MLB. He is a total moneyball move. Hahn needs to be smarter than that and NOT trade Yermin while he is undervalued. 

25 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

The only reason i would consider trading Vaughn is because Yermin can likely provide much of what Vaughn would bring to the table.

Troll 

I honestly don't get why we would trade 2-3 top prospects for Snell IF (big IF) you could get Marquez and his control through 2024 if you give some decent prospects along with Madrigal and take on Blackmon's contract.  You are getting a left RF bat that hits much better than Mazara and a TOR starter for about $30 million per.  Keep big prospects.  You could do worse than Blackmon as a platoon even.  I don't get giving up the barn for a pitcher or paying Springer $25 million per and then bargain basement shopping for SP.  

1 minute ago, Wisebri224 said:

I honestly don't get why we would trade 2-3 top prospects for Snell IF (big IF) you could get Marquez and his control through 2024 if you give some decent prospects along with Madrigal and take on Blackmon's contract.  You are getting a left RF bat that hits much better than Mazara and a TOR starter for about $30 million per.  Keep big prospects.  You could do worse than Blackmon as a platoon even.  I don't get giving up the barn for a pitcher or paying Springer $25 million per and then bargain basement shopping for SP.  

1. Snell is better.

2.  Marquez may cost more.

3. Marquez may be vastly overvalued due to his splits.. All pitchers pitch better at home.  Obviously his would be more pronounced but is it REALLLLLY that much of a diffference?  See Chatwood, Ubaldo and countless others who have left Colorado and didn't get vastly better like we were told.

1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

1. Snell is better.

2.  Marquez may cost more.

3. Marquez may be vastly overvalued due to his splits.. All pitchers pitch better at home.  Obviously his would be more pronounced but is it REALLLLLY that much of a diffference?  See Chatwood, Ubaldo and countless others who have left Colorado and didn't get vastly better like we were told.

Marquez away numbers are pretty damn good. I don't get why people think he wouldn't at least get close to replicating his away splits.

2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

1. Snell is better.

2.  Marquez may cost more.

3. Marquez may be vastly overvalued due to his splits.. All pitchers pitch better at home.  Obviously his would be more pronounced but is it REALLLLLY that much of a diffference?  See Chatwood, Ubaldo and countless others who have left Colorado and didn't get vastly better like we were told.

I agree with #1, but taking on another contract may make #2 much more palatable.  Also, Marquez WHIP is much better at this point in his career which can help translate.  The other two guys had some AWFUL years that their whips were over 1.5.  Last 3 years Marquez is about at 3.58 ERA.  Don't need him better with this lineup.  The Rays are super smart and aren't taking less than one or two of our big 3 for Snell.  I wouldn't do that.  I'd try Lynn again for a year to see what we have before I would do Snell.  

40 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Marquez away numbers are pretty damn good. I don't get why people think he wouldn't at least get close to replicating his away splits.

Because we have the ability to look at other former-Rockies arms... They don't get vastly better.  

3 hours ago, bmags said:

Would be sweet if Rays were super into Yermin Mercedes, take a trade we all are ecstatic about, then it turns out yermin is babe Ruth down there and torments the yerMEN on the board for eternity.

I have always been one of those YerMen. I'd be thrilled for him to get an opportunity to become something and if he winds up being really good for 5+ years it wouldn't torment me at all . If he never gets a good opportunity I can never say "See the Sox made a big mistake never giving him a shot when they had the chance."  Imagine playing Welington Castillo and AJ Reed over Yermin in the middle of a rebuild in 2019 . Neither Castillo (opted out of 2020 season ) nor Reed (retired)  played again.

Edit: If he was given a chance and did well in 2019 the Sox perhaps don't waste $10M on EE which I was always against because I still wanted Yermin and Collins to get AB's.

 

Edited November 24, 20205 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

9 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Because we have the ability to look at other former-Rockies arms... They don't get vastly better.  

He doesn't need to get better than his away stats. They are impressively good. You're saying he will perform similarly to his home stats?

1 hour ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

The only reason i would consider trading Vaughn is because Yermin can likely provide much of what Vaughn would bring to the table.

Again, share whatever you are drinking. 

1 hour ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Yermin is completely undervalued in today's MLB. He is a total moneyball move. Hahn needs to be smarter than that and NOT trade Yermin while he is undervalued. 

You are correct.  27 year old non prospect no glove right hand hitting DH's *ARE* undervalued in today's MLB.  You've discovered the new market inefficiency.  Be proud.

I'd negotiate with the Rays, put anyone they showed serious interest in on the do not touch list, then sign this goofy bastard, shown here posing after his third straight complete game shutout:

16 hours ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

What do you think of Balta's traded proposal?

 

That's an insane package. That's a package for someone like Ronald Acuna, not Blake Snell.