42 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

Whatever Hector Gomez says is what I will believe. Until he announces it I'm not buying it!

Ironically, he was the first reporter to get the Eloy contract extension, and after getting mocked for a week, Passan/Rosenthal etc. ended up crediting him

Giolito really doesn't have a lot of motivation to sign for some comfort. He is going to make good money until then, and he comes from a well off family who isn't sponging off him. A lot of guys come from nothing so they have a lot of responsibility  to a lot of people, and have huge entourages  If he signs an extension, it is not going to be of the team friendly variety.

Just now, Dick Allen said:

Giolito really doesn't have a lot of motivation to sign for some comfort. He is going to make good money until then, and he comes from a well off family who isn't sponging off him. A lot of guys come from nothing so they have a lot of responsibility  to a lot of people, and have huge entourages  If he signs an extension, it is not going to be of the team friendly variety.

Devils Advocate:

Since Giolito's family isnt in dire need for the money he doesnt need to try and completely maximize his pay and can choose where he feels comfortable.

Its impossible to tell someone's motivation unless you know them personally. 

24 minutes ago, TheCommish said:

If Vaughn signed an extension it surely would affect his 2021 salary, because his contract would likely pay him over $1M this year instead of league minimum. Giolito and Lynn may want a raise to their 2021 salary for giving up free agent years by signing a contract. 

So, Yes, it can affect 2021 payroll. 

Are you really going to try to tell me that the difference between Andrew Vaughn making $570,500 and $1,000,000 is why the Sox won't be able to sign him to an extension this year?  Because that is one of the least believable things I have seen in a long time.  

No, this is not the reason why these extensions won't get done, and if it was, they wouldn't be talking about extensions in the first place.  The two tweets do not agree with each other.

12 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

Devils Advocate:

Since Giolito's family isnt in dire need for the money he doesnt need to try and completely maximize his pay and can choose where he feels comfortable.

Its impossible to tell someone's motivation unless you know them personally. 

  He has an obligation to his union. Besides, the White Sox have a history of trading guys that signed team friendly extensions because they wanted to be White Sox. If he signs, it will be for a lot more than Sale and Q and Eloy and TA.  

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

  He has an obligation to his union. Besides, the White Sox have a history of trading guys that signed team friendly extensions because they wanted to be White Sox. If he signs, it will be for a lot more than Sale and Q and Eloy and TA.  

It will look a lot more like Moncada's extension who also signed later in his career.

39 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Ironically, he was the first reporter to get the Eloy contract extension, and after getting mocked for a week, Passan/Rosenthal etc. ended up crediting him

Interesting...may end up eating my own sarcasm haha

19 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

  He has an obligation to his union. Besides, the White Sox have a history of trading guys that signed team friendly extensions because they wanted to be White Sox. If he signs, it will be for a lot more than Sale and Q and Eloy and TA.  

Plus hasn't Giolito recently hinted that he would not be taking a hometown discount?

47 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The difference in what Vaughn would make and the minimum is negligible. Considering rosters in September will be 28 and not 40, it's more than covered.

Was just stating that the 2021 payroll "can" be affected... 

34 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Are you really going to try to tell me that the difference between Andrew Vaughn making $570,500 and $1,000,000 is why the Sox won't be able to sign him to an extension this year?  Because that is one of the least believable things I have seen in a long time.  

No, this is not the reason why these extensions won't get done, and if it was, they wouldn't be talking about extensions in the first place.  The two tweets do not agree with each other.

I was simply stating that 2021 payroll CAN be affected by extensions. 

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Giolito really doesn't have a lot of motivation to sign for some comfort. He is going to make good money until then, and he comes from a well off family who isn't sponging off him. A lot of guys come from nothing so they have a lot of responsibility  to a lot of people, and have huge entourages  If he signs an extension, it is not going to be of the team friendly variety.

I suspect it would be of the fair variety.  He appears to like the organization and generational wealth means not working the signing table at Sox park in your golden years.  Like everyone...he would prefer not sponging off the folks.  These are not dumb guys...they know careers can end in an instant.

3 hours ago, manbearpuig said:

Plus hasn't Giolito recently hinted that he would not be taking a hometown discount?

He's a big union guy.  He's not going to take a short deal because he understands that hurts the guys coming up behind him.  

Signing Lynn to anything beyond 2 additional years with an option for 2024, or using him as leverage...just don’t think JR is going to take that kind of risk with a pitcher in his 30’s with Keuchel already on the books.  After all, he’s turning 34 early in this season.  An extension for him would be more surprising than Giolito.  Even if he has a great season, how many huge long-term contract offers will he get?  Could also just give him the one year QO.

Then again, he’s a former Cardinal who dates back to TLR.

Signing Odorizzi to three years and keeping Dunning would have been more logical, which indicates they were probably happier to give up talent than take on any more additional salary.  Shocking, right?

 

 

17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Signing Lynn to anything beyond 2 additional years with an option for 2024, or using him as leverage...just don’t think JR is going to take that kind of risk with a pitcher in his 30’s with Keuchel already on the books.  After all, he’s turning 34 early in this season.  An extension for him would be more surprising than Giolito.  Even if he has a great season, how many huge long-term contract offers will he get?  Could also just give him the one year QO.

Then again, he’s a former Cardinal who dates back to TLR.

Signing Odorizzi to three years and keeping Dunning would have been more logical, which indicates they were probably happier to give up talent than take on any more additional salary.  Shocking, right?

 

 

That’s not indicated at all.  Maybe they saw Dunning as basically a non-contributor 

13 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

That’s not indicated at all.  Maybe they saw Dunning as basically a non-contributor 

Yes, I’ve already argued that elsewhere.

The counter is that the Rangers have one of the better scouting groups in the game, and that Lynn has already peaked.

Odorizzi is three years younger, and you have the added advantage of taking him away from a rival...even though it doesn’t look like the Twins now can afford him as well.  At the beginning of the offseason, he was projected around 3/$39-42.

Essentially, you have him through 2023, and you keep Dunning.  Of course, Lynn would be $5-6 million cheaper for 2021.

28 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

That’s not indicated at all.  Maybe they saw Dunning as basically a non-contributor 

I think it's pretty obvious the trade was made because it was one of the only ways the Sox could get a high-end SP in that price range.  They desperately needed one for next season and were clearly not willing to shell out money for it. 

I doubt there's anyone in baseball looking at Dunning as a non-contributor, hence why he was enough to acquire Lynn.  I am sure the Sox were not the only team who had offers out for him.  Unless the Sox are being shady and hiding arm issues, they fully understood they were giving up a contributor, just one they couldn't rely on to throw 200 innings next year. 

It would have been nice if they added SP without subtracting Dunning, especially with the lack of pitching depth at the ML level.  

Speaking of extensions, should the Sox approach Crochet about an extension, and if so, what should they approach him with?

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Speaking of extensions, should the Sox approach Crochet about an extension, and if so, what should they approach him with?

I'd say no. Too volatile

Edited February 12, 20215 yr by Squirmin' for Yermin

On 2/11/2021 at 6:31 PM, Jerksticks said:

That’s not indicated at all.  Maybe they saw Dunning as basically a non-contributor 

Based on what we've seen so far, I am not sure how you would draw that conclusion.

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Speaking of extensions, should the Sox approach Crochet about an extension, and if so, what should they approach him with?

If he’s in the bullpen this year the odds are he never leaves. How much do you pay for an extra year of a reliever? 7/$20 guaranteed? $10 m option in year 7 maybe?

On 2/11/2021 at 6:12 PM, caulfield12 said:

Signing Odorizzi to three years and keeping Dunning would have been more logical, which indicates they were probably happier to give up talent than take on any more additional salary.  Shocking, right?

I’d rather have Lynn and Rodon than Odorizzi and Dunning. 

4 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I’d rather have Lynn and Rodon than Odorizzi and Dunning. 

3 of those guys you control for what, 1 year, and one has 6 years of control? 

As long as your team has no major salary constraints, fine give up the years of control. We have none right? No one has complained about that recently?

52 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

3 of those guys you control for what, 1 year, and one has 6 years of control? 

As long as your team has no major salary constraints, fine give up the years of control. We have none right? No one has complained about that recently?

Not to mention the idea was Odorizzi for either 2-3 years, locked in, so you don't have to get into a bidding war for FA pitching whenever the CBA is resolved and revenues can be more accurately projected based on full attendance.   Don't see a team like the White Sox giving $16~18 million for one season for some reason. 

On 2/11/2021 at 4:31 PM, Jerksticks said:

That’s not indicated at all.  Maybe they saw Dunning as basically a non-contributor 

 

On 2/11/2021 at 4:51 PM, caulfield12 said:

Yes, I’ve already argued that elsewhere.

The counter is that the Rangers have one of the better scouting groups in the game, and that Lynn has already peaked.

Odorizzi is three years younger, and you have the added advantage of taking him away from a rival...even though it doesn’t look like the Twins now can afford him as well.  At the beginning of the offseason, he was projected around 3/$39-42.

Essentially, you have him through 2023, and you keep Dunning.  Of course, Lynn would be $5-6 million cheaper for 2021.

Neither one is true or totally true. You don't trade a Dunning for just anyone. He could turn out to be something but he was the oldest of the group of pitching prospects .

With Lynn it had nothing to do with scouting. The Rangers got what they could for him due to pending Free Agency. They wait and maybe he regresses and isn't worth Dunning. No need to take that chance.

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Not to mention the idea was Odorizzi for either 2-3 years, locked in, so you don't have to get into a bidding war for FA pitching whenever the CBA is resolved and revenues can be more accurately projected based on full attendance.   Don't see a team like the White Sox giving $16~18 million for one season for some reason. 

The Sox probably have one of the least expensive pitching staffs in baseball among the contenders. That's just a guess even after the signing of Hendriks unless you count the Marlins as a contender. They are rolling the dice on the youngsters and Katz. Lynn is highly unlikely to be extended and Keuchel still has 2 or 3 years on his contract. Keuchel and Lynn are just around to have good pitchers to still contend and allow  Cease, Kopech etc. to develop.

The plan has a higher degree of failure than success built into it which is why so many want Lynn extended . Sox won't do it. QO possible if Keuchel regresses too much and Lynn has a good year. But it seems to me the Sox will be searching for more starting pitching year after year unless Cease and Kopech really step it up to a high degree very soon.

It's pretty doubtful the Sox raise payroll much next year with attendance still a factor and "lost revenue of $100M per team" for 2020 and perhaps, if lucky ,a loss of half that this year.