5 minutes ago, Jerry McNertney said:

I'll never understand this trade. The Sox trade Madrigal, who if he stays healthy, will probably hit .300+ for many years to come, for a 33 year-old, ineffective set-up man. Where's the logic in such a move?

You seriously can’t see the logic? They traded a player who wasn’t going to play this season for the top relief pitcher in baseball when they are in the race for best AL record. And *if he stays healthy* is a huge if. We drafted him after a major surgery, then he has had two more surgeries after not being able to finish a full MLB season. If we gave up Liam for a similar injury plagued player, Sox fans would be screaming. 

Compare

Kimbrel (Closer), Tepera (setup), and Hernandez (2b) for Madrigal, Heuer, Pilkington, and Horn

With

Robertson (Closer), Kahnle (setup) and Frazier (3b) for Rutherford, Clarkin (rule 5), Polo and Clippard (included for salary reasons; quickly sent to Astros).

 

 

33 minutes ago, Jerry McNertney said:

I'll never understand this trade. The Sox trade Madrigal, who if he stays healthy, will probably hit .300+ for many years to come, for a 33 year-old, ineffective set-up man. Where's the logic in such a move?

Ineffective set up man?  This is sports talk radio trolling level of a bad take.

12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Ineffective set up man?  This is sports talk radio trolling level of a bad take.

Best closer in baseball can’t possible pitch effectively in any other inning. It’s too much to ask. 

I love Nick Madrigal.  I was at the Yankees-Sox game in New York where he got the half swing base hit RBI and will always relish how ballistic the Yankee fans around me were when that happened.  Having said all that, right now, I think Hernandez is a very clear upgrade over Madrigal.  From what I've seen of him both with the Guardians and now here, he has a lot of baseball smarts (something Madrigal lacked) and he is just a much more dynamic player.  He's also a better fielder.  Yeah he's in our good graces right now but he's a legitimate power threat and can also shorten up his swing if the situation calls for it.  If he keeps playing this way, I think it's a no brainer that the White Sox exercise that option.  Sox are in a position that we have been craving for since this rebuild started.  Right now it’s time to think less about 2023 and 2024 and think about how we win a World Series this year and maybe next.  Kimbrel is a hall of famer and gives the team a lockdown 8th inning guy and possibly 9th inning guy, depending on Liam’s status and matchups.  But I also think Hernandez is a guy who will be key in the postseason and possibly next year.  He’s an All Star caliber player.

 

I also just think something that hasn't been talked about as much with Kimbrel is that since his arrival, he's made all of our pitchers in the bullpen better.  Bummer has been lights out since that trade.  It's probably a relief to him since there is less pressure on him to be THE GUY in the eighth and he's now simply being asked to perform a role on a championship caliber team.  Same with Liam, who has been great throughout the season, but has pitched like a man possessed since that trade was made.  It's a small sample size but I do think the trade has a positive effect and it ripples down throughout the bullpen.

 

Bottom line, I think it's ok for a trade for a major impact player like Kimbrel to hurt a bit.  That's the cost for getting the best reliever on the planet who we still have control of next year.  But I also think the loss of Madrigal next year is being greatly overstated.  If Hernandez continues to rake like he has been for the Sox, it's a no brainer in bringing him back, but there are also a ton of 2nd Baseman available next year as well.

Edited August 8, 20214 yr by Colome's Hat

17 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

Bottom line

Welcome to Soxtalk!!!

3 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Compare

Kimbrel (Closer), Tepera (setup), and Hernandez (2b) for Madrigal, Heuer, Pilkington, and Horn

With

Robertson (Closer), Kahnle (setup) and Frazier (3b) for Rutherford, Clarkin (rule 5), Polo and Clippard (included for salary reasons; quickly sent to Astros).

 

 

Are you implying that the prospect return that teams got from the Sox this year is that much better than what the Sox got years back for a bunch of salary dumps? The only player we’ll miss is Madrigal and even then Hernandez is the better player this year and next.

Heuer goes to Cubs and start throwing strikes. With Sox, he thought strike zone was a foot outside.  Still love the trades, however.

2 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Heuer goes to Cubs and start throwing strikes. With Sox, he thought strike zone was a foot outside.  Still love the trades, however.

It's a lot easier to pitch when there are zero expectations

On 8/8/2021 at 9:17 AM, GreenSox said:

Compare

Kimbrel (Closer), Tepera (setup), and Hernandez (2b) for Madrigal, Heuer, Pilkington, and Horn

With

Robertson (Closer), Kahnle (setup) and Frazier (3b) for Rutherford, Clarkin (rule 5), Polo and Clippard (included for salary reasons; quickly sent to Astros).

 

 

Compare Sosa(outfielder), Karchner(RP), Shields(SP)

with

Ford Bronco (suv), Alfa Romeo Spider(luxury), ten speed bike (bicycle)

I think the Sox will not only pick up Hernandez's option, but will look at extending him for a few more years

13 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Compare Sosa(outfielder), Karchner(RP), Shields(SP)

with

Ford Bronco (suv), Alfa Romeo Spider(luxury), ten speed bike (bicycle)

Compare Eloy (lots of power), Abreu (soul of the team), Robert (covers lots of space in the outfield), Anderson (trying to change the reality of baseball), Liam (has an insane mind), and Giolito (switches up pitch speeds like time) with the infinity stones.

On 8/8/2021 at 9:01 AM, Jerry McNertney said:

I'll never understand this trade. The Sox trade Madrigal, who if he stays healthy, will probably hit .300+ for many years to come, for a 33 year-old, ineffective set-up man. Where's the logic in such a move?

He can take his empty batting avg to an empty team.  It's a match made in heaven.  

On 8/8/2021 at 9:01 AM, Jerry McNertney said:

I'll never understand this trade. The Sox trade Madrigal, who if he stays healthy, will probably hit .300+ for many years to come, for a 33 year-old, ineffective set-up man. Where's the logic in such a move?

 

On 6/16/2021 at 3:57 PM, Jerry McNertney said:

Imagine if the Sox had the Cubs bullpen. Wow.

6 minutes ago, Tony said:

 

There is always receipts.

https://www.facebook.com/295975523901/posts/10161379193178902/

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

https://www.facebook.com/295975523901/posts/10161379193178902/

?

9 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

?

I mean, nothing he said here is wrong. 1. Kimbrel was useless to the Cubs.  2. Madrigal could win a batting title. 3. Heuer could easily become their closer of the future if he gets anywhere close to 2020.

Edited August 10, 20214 yr by Squirmin' for Yermin

10 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I mean, nothing he said here is wrong. 1. Kimbrel was useless to the Cubs.  2. Madrigal could win a batting title. 3. Heuer could easily become their closer of the future if he gets anywhere close to 2020.

Had the same thoughts as well. The only thing he leaves out is:

4. Kimbrel could help the Sox win metal.

10 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

I mean, nothing he said here is wrong. 1. Kimbrel was useless to the Cubs.  2. Madrigal could win a batting title. 3. Heuer could easily become their closer of the future if he gets anywhere close to 2020.

Cubs fans thought they were getting the world for Kimbrel then after he's traded he becomes a "useless contract" and how about Madrigal stays healthy for more than half a season before we start talking batting titles.

Championship windows are of limited time.  If the trade helps the Sox win in 21 or 22, then I don't care if Madrigal is an all star in the next 5 years......it would be more than worth it.

3 minutes ago, gogosox1959 said:

Championship windows are of limited time.  If the trade helps the Sox win in 21 or 22, then I don't care if Madrigal is an all star in the next 5 years......it would be more than worth it.

From the biggest Madrigal fan on this board: Yes.

2 minutes ago, gogosox1959 said:

Championship windows are of limited time.  If the trade helps the Sox win in 21 or 22, then I don't care if Madrigal is an all star in the next 5 years......it would be more than worth it.

Bingo. Not every trade is cut and dry, winner or loser. 

If the Sox win a title and Nicky is a 4 WAR, cheap, top of the order hitter for the Cubs over the next 4-5 seasons.......everyone involved is happy. 

During the window the Sox are in, you need to take calculated risks and hope they work out. The chances are actually low that they do. The odds don't favor the Sox winning a World Series this year or next (the odds are always against you winning a World Series) but you Hahn's job is now to put this core in a position to try their best to bring home some hardware over the next few years. That's all you can ask for. 

4 minutes ago, gogosox1959 said:

Championship windows are of limited time.  If the trade helps the Sox win in 21 or 22, then I don't care if Madrigal is an all star in the next 5 years......it would be more than worth it.

That's fine but I'm having some 2nd thoughts on using Madrigal to acquire a guy who is going to pitch maybe 10 innings in the playoffs and maybe 60 overall in Chicago.  I'm not sure that's the best use of a trade chip.  I'm excited about using Kimbrel in the playoffs, but I'm not thrilled that's all Chicago could turn Madrigal into.

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

That's fine but I'm having some 2nd thoughts on using Madrigal to acquire a guy who is going to pitch maybe 10 innings in the playoffs and maybe 60 overall in Chicago.  I'm not sure that's the best use of a trade chip.  I'm excited about using Kimbrel in the playoffs, but I'm not thrilled that's all Chicago could turn Madrigal into.

Let's look at some things:

1. The Sox went out and acquired Ceasar Hernandez for basically nothing. VERY early but so far the results have been promising. And we've talked ad nauseam about how 2B is the easiest position to fill on the diamond. 

2. Those "10 innings" could be some of the highest leverage innings in the playoffs. Having the 2021's best RP as your setup man creates a very large advantage for you in those playoffs

3. What should have been the return for Nick Madrigal? And how are they acquiring Kimbrell or another high leverage bullpen arm? What assets are they using?